2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumToday, I'm embracing the second amendment.
I live in Texas, but I do not like guns. As a rule, guns have never been allowed in my home.
This election has changed this. For my husband and I, going back into the closet and hiding isn't an option, we've filed joint income taxes as married for a couple of years now, and claimed the allowable back taxes, so the government has full record of our homosexuality.
Trump hasn't even taken office yet, but the whole atmosphere of this country has changed since that fateful day on November 8th. I have removed the family and friends who supported this monster from my life. We have absolutely NOTHING going for us now. They have a large majority in the house, they have the Senate (not filibuster proof, but I see them going full nuclear and declaring the Democratic minority as traitors and obstructionists to their new order), and they have this monster as their leader, and they are fanatical about him in a way that I've never seen in this country in my lifetime.
Maybe, and hopefully I will never have occasion to use these 3 Glock G17L's that I've purchased, but for once, I am thankful for the second amendment. I will kill before I allow me and my husband to be loaded onto trains or trucks for re-education, or when his brownshirts decide it is time to invade our home and make us pay for our "crimes against nature".
Tomorrow, my husband and I go to the firing range to learn how to use these weapons properly.
(edited title since I am NOT actually changing sides on this issue)
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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)
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Freedomofspeech
(4,377 posts)I never imagined in my lifetime that I would witness such hate. We have many gay and black friends who share your fears. I have turned my back on any friends who voted for this maniac. I have never been so fearful of anyone or anything in my life. Who the hell is going to come and rescue all of us? Love and peace to you and your husband.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Freedomofspeech
(4,377 posts)
Oneironaut
(5,761 posts)When groups are singled out for persecution, people have an odd reaction, even if they have no problem with that group. It usually consists of a combo of "I'm glad that's not me" and searching for justification to either not care about or support the persecution.
blue cat
(2,438 posts)So I understand
Eliot Rosewater
(32,530 posts)I also am anti gun, extremely.
But many Americans now are in direct physical danger of others and some forms of the future government and therefore should arm themselves.
I think the federal government will remain relatively safe but this new meme that it is OK to publicly show hatred of and do harm to minorities will make some local law enforcement less likely to protect you/us.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)I'm in NC so I do want one (kept in a safe) for self-protection.
I'm also black in NC so getting one and having a carry permit scares the hell out of me.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Fair warning.
pansypoo53219
(21,701 posts)yagotme
(3,816 posts)at household distances, needs just as much aiming. Shot pattern is only a few inches wide at room distance, and the recoil is not a good thing to starting to learn how to shoot.
SpookyDem
(55 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I'm completely ignorant and inexperienced in making this kind of choice. These were what the repulsive individual that sold them to me recommended for "home defense".
Hell, even having them I realize that it's false courage I've bought. After all, if/when it gets to that point, we'll be alone, isolated, outnumbered, and outgunned, and our resistance will be right at the futile level. Heck, when it comes to that point, we're hoping we can at least get to them, and just use them to prevent them from taking us alive.
My husband and I had a loooong sit down and talk about this possibility on christmas eve while sipping eggnog in front of the fireplace and reflecting on our lives.
Would love to be wrong, but we both feel our days are numbered, and we refuse to have our persons numbered.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)A semi-automatic magazine fed rifle in affordable price range. A decent pump action 12ga. A couple of affordable reliable semi-automatic handguns.
Magazines and accessories for all the above.
Plenty of ammunition.
Safe storage for anything you buy.
Training, training, training. Learn and live gun safety before anything. Become comfortable and familiar otherwise it is worthless or outright dangerous to you.
It is the left's responsibility and obligation to defend ourselves. No one else will defend you when you need it most.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Personally, I would get a BB gun as a first gun and shoot a big jar or BBs at a target in the yard. I realize that not everyone has a yard or friendly neighbors. A 22 target pistol is a possible alternative. They tend to be unreliable, but at least not intimidating. These choices are of course useless for self defense.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)I was focused mainly on self-defense aspect. .22 rifle and pistol are almost mandatory for any gun owner. Why? Well they help with developing good shooting habits, are affordable, and most importantly are very fun to shoot.
Best thing about 12 ga when learning is you can learn to shoot using light bird/trap loads. Not as intimidating.
nil desperandum
(654 posts)always liked a revolver for newcomers, they are inherently safe and you are seldom faced with multiple attackers....learning to be comfortable with a decent revolver...your recommendations are excellent choices.
I still like my 1911, it's been used in self defense already.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)I carry revolver when I do solo backpacking. I also found I am better shot with revolvers than semi autos.
I love the 1911, own one, but wouldn't recommend for first timer. Happy to hear you defended yourself and still alive and kicking!
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)And I'm so sorry that you're in a place that feels so unsafe.
Johnny2X2X
(21,712 posts)Especially if you are a minority or an immigrant. They will come for you and yours, arm yourself.
mvd
(65,437 posts)advocated for a full banning. This is one reason. For protection in case a person with authoritarian tendencies like Trump goes too far. Also, a full banning isn't going to happen with the culture in our country. I do not and never have owned a gun, and wish we were gun free. But it's nice to have a last resort option.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)I won't judge you and your spouse - your fears are your fears, and you should take whatever precautions you feel necessary to protect your family. Make sure you get as much training as you and your husband can afford. Keep your firearms clean and secured in a safe whenever you're not using them.
And please be careful. Guns in the home place everyone at greater risk for gun-related deaths.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Very thankful now that we ultimately decided not to adopt, and have no children in our home. Just the two of us and our elderly mothers that we care for.
Right now they're not even out of the boxes, and tomorrow we're meeting one of my co-workers who's a trainer and does competition shooting for some lessons.
Frankly, I'd be lying through my keyboard if I said the thought of getting those lessons tomorrow doesn't terrify the shit out of me.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)think of them as any tool that could be lethal if misused (like a circular saw or an acetylene torch). Turn your fear into a very healthy respect. I don't like guns but I certainly understand that there's a time and a place where they are necessary.
Good luck!
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Learn and follow safe practices, and you'll be safe. Never leave shit unattended or accessoble to others, you'll be fine.
sweetapogee
(1,171 posts)if there is a local private gun club that is not too expensive join and hit the range at least once a month. In a panic even the simple to operate Glock will become difficult if your not handling/shooting it on a regular basis.
A good inexpensive electronic hearing protection device is made by Howard Leight, the model is called impact sports and Amazon sells them for about $35.00 They are nice because you can hear regular sounds but it cancels out the muzzle noise.
Midway USA sells inexpensive but high quality range bags and other shooting stuff at good prices. For plinking and practice inexpensive 9mm ammo (115g Winchester white box from walmart) is good but personal defense ammo is expensive be warned.
It is total fun sport to bash the NRA here but it is the best source for gun handling safety instruction. Safety handling firearms is not something to take lightly, once the bullet leaves the barrel there is no recalling it. Have no fear, you have the help of an experienced mentor, your friend, and your going to find that shooting is actually an enjoyable pastime and hobby. You might not want to become addicted to gunpowder but you can still have a nice afternoon at a range and be prepared if you need the protection a firearm can provide.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)the Second Amendment won't be so sacrosanct and gun control will finallly become a reality.
So arm on, my brother ...
BTW, I'm only being half facetious - I hate guns, but I feel your pain and fear.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I think gun ownership is well distributed throughout the races in this country.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Interesting ...
cwydro
(51,308 posts)We're not supposed to talk about gun violence there.
Interesting.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)You claim that "gun ownership is well distributed throughout the races in this country" because of gun violence in Chicago?
That ridiculous argument sounds familiar . . . where have I heard that before? Oh, yes. That red herring is often thrown by certain people into discussions about violence against minorities. Usually right after the "what about black on black crime?" crap.
True colors are flying . . .
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)in urban Chicago and in white suburbia:
Between racist cops and community social strucures sacrficed on the altar of white privilege, people in Chicago actually face a risk of death or serious bodily injury that is greater than the risks attendant to the presence of a firearm in the home.
In white suburbia, it is exactly the opposite but the people who live there have been convinced that THEY are the "real" victims of violent crime.
Equating the two smacks of privilege.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)+1000
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)racist? Either we are all the same or we are not.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)arming themselves because they no longer feel safe from homophobic violence in Texas is highly suspect.
And claiming that "gun violence in Chicago" is somehow proof that gay people, women and minorities arming themselves would not cause Second Amendment zealots to rethink their view of gun control is both suspect AND stupid.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)This is a thread about guns.
Your innuendo doesn't bother me.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)With a 3 prong approach directed against gangs, drugs, and ILLEGAL guns
Did you know that most of the people killed in Chicago were already pre identified by the police as likely to be involved in a future crime? That says to me that gangs are the number one issue. Is there a reason to be in a gang?
How about if we try to take every single one of these people and find them a job and housing in a different community? Something along the lines of a witness protection program. I think that would make a bigger difference than anything........save their lives and thus save Chicago.
According to WGN, shootings were up nearly 50 percent from 2015 and the number of homicides jumped nearly 65 percent. It was the deadliest year in Chicago since 1996.
CPD Superintendent Eddie Johnson described the year as “difficult” and “disheartening.” The majority of the violence came from five police districts on the city’s west and south sides.
“Despite the belief that the entire city is up for grabs, the majority of the increase in the violence we saw in 2016, the majority of the violence was driven by 5 out of the 22 police districts," Johnson said.
Authorities attributed the problems to gangs, drugs and illegal guns. Johnson said there’s more to reducing violence than simply making more arrests. He said the department couldn’t do it by itself.
He outlined changes for 2017 intended to stem the tide of violence:
Hiring additional officers
Offering incentives to developers who bring jobs to high-crime communities
Mentoring teens in the city’s 20 most violent neighborhoods
Strengthening gun laws for repeat offenders
Focusing on policies and training
Revising the department’s community policing strategy
Johnson said the department will increase its use of technology including street cameras and body cameras. The department will also open a pair of “strategic decision support centers” to provide real-time information and analysis. The centers will be staffed 24 hours a day, seven days a week
Ace Rothstein
(3,298 posts)They'd go back to a life of crime when they aren't making as much money as they did previously.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)The mantra of white privilege . . .
and all lives matter too, huh?
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)but if you think that different racial groups should have different gun laws, that does seem racist
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Different groups have different needs for self-defense and, accordingly, different motivations for purchasing the "tools" of self defense.
WE are in REAL danger and purchase weapons to address those concerns. The white suburbanites who are scarfing up guns like they are Skittles face almost no danger and purchase weapons because in their privileged view of the world even the minimal danger they face is important enough to flood this country with unneeded weapons.
You aren't us. Quit acting like you face the same reality.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)I leave it to the individual to decide what their different needs are. I support individual rights with non discriminatory laws.
If we should ever get to a point where the purchase of guns is a shared and common community decision, then we can look at that community with respect to their needs, sadly understanding that the rights of an individual within that community have become lost to the restrictive dictates of that community.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)to do with government regulation and everything to do with the decision by privileged suburbanites to place millions of weapons into the stream of commerce for no other (real) reason than to reinforce their privilege.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)If I had never been doing much shooting I would not buy the guns you bought.
A handgun really requires constant practice to shoot at even short range.
You'd be better off getting a rifle, like a .22 and shooting it a lot and then getting a larger caliber rifle.
If you are insistent on a handgun I'd go ahead and buy a Ruger .22 pistol and practice with it. Accurate less recoil.
A 9mm will be louder and more recoil and may cause a first time shooter to flinch and miss.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I was a bit shocked at the fact someone with no weapon know-how chose those handguns.
It's not something you're going to learn on one day on the range.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)And keep in mind that those instructing you may well be Trump voters.
Don't have weapons in your house that of which you are completely clueless. That's a blueprint for disaster.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)Not see a threat of physical harm coming from the government.
But i don't see physical harm in general as being a big risk, i'd be more concerned about the govt cutting the funding for social programs hurting minorities.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
SQUEE
(1,319 posts)Brown shirts, sans-culottes, the Klan all were grown swell of popular opinion. Extra governmental lynch mobs as well.. We may not have the gov to fear, but idiots emboldened by this election will be flexing their muscle and acting out.
Best to be vigilant, trained and armed.. in that order.
A gun with no training behind it is a disaster waiting to happen. Training, proper storage and a plan should all be done and in effect before the gun enters the home.
Get a safe, get training, then and only then get a gun.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)You'll just have to deal that I'm not willing to bet my family on your being right at this point.
While there are certainly dissimilarities between our situation, and 1929 Germany, there's too many similarities to ignore it outright.
We're not a country just coming out of economic ruin, or in a world that is in a great depression, so the desperation factor is absent. There hasn't been an attempted armed overthrow of our government. These are very key differences.
However, there's also too many similarities for me to ignore:
- A charismatic leader, whom just about everybody thought was a joke, has gone from virtual obscurity to taking power.
- Central to his rise is instilling a sense that our country has fallen from greatness.
- Named enemies as the cause of our fall from greatness, and those enemies are liberals, progressives, immigrants, the news media, Hollywood, organized labor, and the GLBT lobbies.
- This rise to power, which hasn't even been realized yet (only 1.5 months since the election) has already resulted in a large increase of crimes against the named enemies, and marginalization of named enemies.
- Riding the wave of national pride, militarism, commitment to him, and a radically pure America.
- Even though the Nazi Party only won 32% of the vote, underestimation of them led to their complete seizure of power.
So, yes, my reaction might be premature, and ultimately it may be completely unnecessary.. but, it may also be accurate, and there's certainly enough change that's come over this country for genuine concern. So, I will hope that you are correct, but I will prepare for you being incorrect.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
AJT
(5,240 posts)to start sounding like the paranoid right. Purchase a gun if that helps you feel better. Maybe in Texas some individual crazy might decide to commit a hate crime, but the Trump government or bands of haters aren't going to be dragging people out of their homes and sending them off to camps or killing them. Times will be hard, but let's not jump the shark. Most people are decent, and many will step in to help people getting harassed. Most Americans will have your back and when the haters are stood up to enough times most will crawl back under their rock. Please don't fall into right-wing build a bunker, survivalist mode.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)shit seemed more believable. Bush was gonna cancel the election, impose martial law, invade iran, the predictions were on DU daily for 8 years. And it didn't happen.
And it won't happen because in modern times, people don't go on hitlerian world domination conquests: they make due by robbing the treasury with their tax cuts and military contactor spending. They need the proles to pay taxes so they can steal as much of it they can; start puting people in camps and causing mass mayhem disrupts the cash flow.
What they realistically do is go after the social safety net and public spending, that's where we need to be the most vigilant.
Truth321
(93 posts)Dunce, yet somehow he's gonna single handedly exterminate half the population of the United States. Most likely the world. Better Arm up before he cranks up the gas chambers!! The level of paranoia here reaching the stratosphere. Better put on your tin foil hats.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)For death, and he didn't fire up the ovens
Paladin
(28,739 posts)Keep in mind that the firearms industry, and the ownership/usage of firearms, have been increasingly co-opted and radicalized by the right wing in this country. If asked about those Glocks, limit your response to something vague about home protection---avoid any political discussions. These are indeed dangerous times.
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I'm not going to congratulate you and I hope you don't become like most of them singing the praises of guns, bragging about what you own, cheering when gun sales go up, making excuses every time someone shoots up a school or club, supporting people like George Zimmerman, and similar gunner BS.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)to see where this is headed, do not live in TX, but if the need arrives will do similar. I grew up target shooting and all, got rid of the 22's, shotguns and all sometime ago ... wondered at the time if we would ever need them, not really a gun type person. Now wish I hadn't gotten rid of them.
This is getting to be a crazy society. I don't blame you one bit for at least being prepared.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)After his years of thinking Obama was taking the guns and talking a good game while buying guns and fancying himself a prepper by watching prepper shows on TV, the poor guy is thinking he gets to relax and I'm suddenly dragging him out to visit the local LDS Home Storage store on our weekend outings, literally building solar power chargers, getting water treatment lined up (and oh yeah, incidentally buying a gun but that is the really really minor part of it).
It's funny as he tries to ask why I'm suddenly so worried and I say "well, there is good reason to believe the average person NEEDS to have a year's food stockpiled at this point. You voted in a candidate who promises disruption, not reform. Do you SERIOUSLY think disruptions are painless?"
jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)We don't go over to the crazy side. We stand strong.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...keep him and his husband safe in the face of Klan-style behavior.
The civil rights movement had an armed aspect that wasn't much discussed:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/http:/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x337407
Rosa Parks was an armed. No surprise from this Cracker.
"There's a sense in which Mrs. Parks is very important to our post-civil rights racial narrative, because we really want a kind of sugar-coated civil rights movement that's about purity and interracial non-violence. And so we don't really want to meet the real Rosa Parks. We don't, for example, want to know that in the late 1960s, Rosa Parks became a black nationalist and a great admirer of Malcolm X. I met Rosa Parks at the funeral of Robert F. Williams, who had fought the Ku Klux Klan in North Carolina with a machine gun in the late 1950s and then fled to Cuba, and had been a kind of international revolutionary icon of black power. Ms. Parks delivered the eulogy at his funeral. She talks in her autobiography and says that she never believed in non-violence and that she was incapable of that herself, and that she kept guns in her home to protect her family. But we want a little old lady with tired feet. You may have noticed we don't have a lot of pacifist white heroes. We prefer our black people meek and mild, I think."
http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2010/08/27/02
_____________
Parks, like Fannie Lou Hammer, kept herself armed for immediate self-protection, and probably knew the limitations of violence within the civil rights movement, so "non-violence" was probably not a philosophical, but more a practical choice. I cannot help but notice that the Washington Post -- agitprop of record for gun-control -- continues to throw mythological pixie dust about in support of the myth of Ms. Parks.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=331645
Remembering Robert Hicks and the Deacons of Defense
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/25/us/25hicks.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=robert%20hicks&st=cse
Someone had called to say the Ku Klux Klan was coming to bomb Robert Hicks’s house. The police said there was nothing they could do. It was the night of Feb. 1, 1965, in Bogalusa, La.
The Klan was furious that Mr. Hicks, a black paper mill worker, was putting up two white civil rights workers in his home. It was just six months after three young civil rights workers had been murdered in Philadelphia, Miss.
Mr. Hicks and his wife, Valeria, made some phone calls. They found neighbors to take in their children, and they reached out to friends for protection. Soon, armed black men materialized. Nothing happened.
Less than three weeks later, the leaders of a secretive, paramilitary organization of blacks called the Deacons for Defense and Justice visited Bogalusa. It had been formed in Jonesboro, La., in 1964 mainly to protect unarmed civil rights demonstrators from the Klan. After listening to the Deacons, Mr. Hicks took the lead in forming a Bogalusa chapter, recruiting many of the men who had gone to his house to protect his family and guests...
https://www.amazon.com/Negroes-Guns-African-American-Life/dp/0814327141/ref=pd_cp_b_1
First published in 1962, Negroes with Guns is the story of a southern black community's struggle to arm itself in self-defense against the Ku Klux Klan and other racist groups. Frustrated and angered by violence condoned or abetted by the local authorities against blacks, the small community of Monroe, North Carolina, brought the issue of armed self-defense to the forefront of the civil rights movement. The single most important intellectual influence on Huey P. Newton, the founder of the Black Panther Party, Negroes with Guns is a classic story of a man who risked his life for democracy and freedom.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)This, of course, is a large part of the Pink Pistol's mission: to get LGBT people more comfortable with firearms and encourage them to fight hate crimes with bullets – or at least the threat of them. A small, loosely organized group of a few dozen chapters scattered across the states and Canada, including Toronto, San Francisco and Charleston, South Carolina, the Pink Pistols' membership has climbed from around 1,500 earlier this month to about 6,500 since the June day Omar Mateen attacked the Pulse nightclub, turning the dance floor into a killing field and crashing together two culture war battlegrounds that rarely converge: gays and guns. While the majority of LGBT people seem to be calling for more regulation, Pink Pistols and their allies are hunkering down and taking up arms, banding together under the group's motto, a confrontational warning to potential gay-bashers: "Pick on someone your own caliber."
The Pink Pistols formed around 2000, after gay journalist Jonathan Rauch – still outraged by Matthew Shepard's 1998 murder, and knowing gay men who stopped attacks with guns – published an article on Salon. "[Gays] should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry," he wrote, noting that they should do it in a way to garner as much publicity as possible. And, as an added bonus to self-protection, Pink Pistols could erode tenacious stereotypes, challenging the image of cringing weakness, especially for those who internalized it. "Pink pistols," he wrote, "would do far more for the self-esteem of the next generation of gay men and women than any number of hate-crime laws or anti-discrimination statutes."
Rauch went on: "If it became widely known that homosexuals carry guns and know how to use them, not many bullets would need to be fired. In fact, not all that many gay people would need to carry guns, as long as gay-bashers couldn't tell which ones did." Just knowing that a gay person could have a gun would deter a potential attacker. As Rauch has conceded, same-sex marriage, the end of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and other milestones have empowered LGBT people, but it remains that anti-gay attacks, like anti-American attacks, can be visited upon us at anytime. (Rauch even used the word "low-level terrorism" to describe homophobic attacks like the one that ended Matthew Shepherd's life.) LGBT people know that each new space needs to be navigated delicately, lest our mere existence enrage some homophobe. Now, with Omar Mateen, Americans are all too aware how anti-gay violence can explode randomly, terrifyingly, and scar more than just LGBT people.
wincest
(117 posts)for the pink pistols, http://www.pinkpistols.org/
their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204691521/
Nicki Stallard seems to be the leader of the Ca chapters. i've spoken to her a few times, she very knowledgeable and willing to help lgbt people start local chapters in their communities. contact her if you have any questions.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)faced by the black community and their REAL justifications for arming themselves by privileged white folks to justify THEIR arming themselves despite facing no such dangers is disgusting.
The "self-defense" community is rife with racism. For them to invoke the name of Huey Newton is beyond irony.
kcr
(15,522 posts)I self deleted my posts in this thread because of my reaction before I realized what this thread was about. I figured it was just a typical White fear over-reaction because I saw Second Amendment. They've made it a knee-jerk cause that rallies the knuckledraggers . Personally, I don't think it's worth allying with them and I also don't think it's necessary to do so for one individual to buy a single gun. I think the OP was unnecessarily inflammatory.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)
...or that Huey P. Newton himself mentioned Robert F. Williams as an inspiration?
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)is that you almost certainly don't look the least bit like the person in that picture and that you oppose every thing that Huey believed, especially the reasons he believed that we should go armed. I am also aware that you cynically appropriated Williams' message of liberation through strength to justify the those who purchase weapons simply to further entrench their privileged.
Oh, the next time you wamt to try to act like suburbanites and the BPP are brothers in arms on the issue of self-defense, you might try to avoid former BPP members.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)whatever reason? Some people just like to target shoot in the woods, they aren't hurting you...
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)gun owners who regularly engage in shooting sports and recreation is small and getting smaller as the country continues to urbanize. That is the driving force behind the gun industry's promotion of the racist meme that suburbanites are "victims" (a meme which, btw, drives them into the welcoming arms of the Trumps and Dukes of the world).
As for that small segment, it is comforting that they have some motivation other than non-existent vctimhood to purchase a firearm. May they plink to their heart's content.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)As is self defense. Nothing wrong with any of these. Suburbanites are less likely to have a police officer within shouting distance so the support traditionally provided by that officer in an urban setting can be backfilled to some degree with personal defense training.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Are in more danger??????
Omg, you people are beyond belief.
Btw, recreational shooting (not including practicing in preparation for, and/or in prevention of, the foreboding loss of white privilege) combined with hunting is still way down. The overwhelming majority of new gun purchases are for "self-defense"
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)That the suburbs are already secure enough. 18 million ADT (or similar) home security systems indicate that you are alone in this position.
All that I can speak of is my own experience. In the last 4 years I have lived in a few places. In one I had a break in. 20+ minutes for the police to arrive. Someone had entered a very old code into my very basic alarm system and gone through the first floor. I had cameras put in the next week. In other places I have been within 100 feet of both a fatal police shooting and a non fatal gang shooting, both times with my child.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)On the same suburban paranoia.
As for your personal experiences, the fact remains that IN SUBURBIA the chance that a legally purchased weapon will be involved in inadvertently causing harm or that it will be used by the person who brought the weapon into the home for an improper purpose is significantly greater than the chance it will be used to protect the homeowner from death or serious bodily injury.
I am curious, however, which white suburban neighborhood you were in when you were exposed to a gang shooting.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)But it was a strip mall with a baseball card sports memorabilia store (why I was there) that also was a pawn shop/we buy gold place. Not sure if the pawn shop was the attraction for the shooting, but that would be my guess. And as for how suburban, someone ran over a moose there a couple of years ago.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Btw, threatened by a stampeding moose counts too. I never said all white people. 
dionysus
(26,467 posts)citood
(550 posts)I'm not nearly good enough to be part of a competitive/organized competition...but I do enjoy target shooting.
I keep my guns locked up, and nowhere near where I sleep...so I really don't think I'm Billy Badd-ass defending the Ponderosa. I just like to target shoot. Lots of people do.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)I am simply talking about the percentage of those who purchase guns for purely recreational and/or hunting purposes as opposed to those who do so in part to protect themselves from imaginary threats.
As with the person who bought a gun just to plink in the woods, more power to you.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Feh. You provide no safety for the OP's family, or any solution for them outside empty platitudes.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Well I guess we know who is lagging behind in that race.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)calling people racists for buying guns out of fear for their safety.
It's out of left field to me... 
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)groups within this country who face real dangers. Despite my suspicion regarding the sincerity of the OP (the connecting of a right wing talking point - "we need guns to protect against jack booted thugs" - to an oppressed group seems designed more to justify the former than to express the concerns of the latter), I have absolutely no problem with people who face REAL threats taking steps to protect themselves.
I do have a problem with folks who face little or no danger buying weapons either out of a sense of privilege or to "protect" their position of privilege.
Response to jodymarie aimee (Reply #31)
kcr This message was self-deleted by its author.
Truth321
(93 posts)Selling more guns every year than sold the year before. Records sold. The gun lobby openly said Obama was the best salesman they could ever dream of. The repugs said he was going to ban them. Now....???? The gun lobby and the NBA are celebrating.
DaleFromWPB
(76 posts)Spend at least four one-hour sessions at the range putting at least fifty rounds each down .
range
Reloading the mags is a pain in the thumb - get a speed loader
https://www.amazon.com/Glock-Magazine-Speed-Loader-357/dp/B004Y27DVY
If you have a place to shoot outside, paper targets get boring - get one of these
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/336422/do-all-impact-seal-ground-bouncing-hot-box-4-reactive-target-self-healing-polymer-orange?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Targets-_-Do-All-_-336422&gclid=CjwKEAiAqJjDBRCG5KK6hq_juDwSJABRm03hn5zSGV0-bUCXwIYoUn6n1bCQaPT-atXCn8zdgzA2fBoCI6Pw_wcB
Don't pay range or retail prices for ammo - buy in bulk, 1000 rounds isn;t as much as you think
http://www.bulkammo.com/handgun/bulk-9mm-ammo
Welcome to the world of recreational shooting, my guess you'll be hooked after your first trip to the range.
Keep an open mind, ask questions
Ask other shooters about their guns, most will offer to let ya send a round or two down range.
Safety is always first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SlimJimmy
(3,246 posts)Some weapons can take as many as 200 rounds to break in and get the mechanics working properly.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Have not watched in years. He is a very tall old white guy. Gets freebies from manufacturers and does viral informal gun reviews. Ex law enforcement, so you can imagine his politics. Anyway, he shoots in his back yard at all sorts of stuff. If you want to see how to use a 9mm magazine loader or shoot flower pots and 2 liter sodas, he is your guy. No doubt he has a Glock test on the tube. Fair warning, practice 20 years and you may still not be as good a shot as him on his worst day. Then again he probably shoots several hundred rounds a day, every day.
braddy
(3,585 posts)I guess you know about the gun group, The Pink Pistols?
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 31, 2016, 12:36 AM - Edit history (8)
I highly recommend joining the GSSF (Glock Sport Shooting Foundation) which has many events and competitions nationally as well as all sorts of deals and discounts. If you should one day opt for concealed carry, you may want something smaller. If your eyes are no longer young, you may want something built to accept a red dot sight, which compensates for age. That is not the same as a laser sight, which is yet another type of aiming device. For a house gun, you may want to add "night" sights, which are simply sights that are easier to see. For pure competition, there are better models. The 17L is considered a low end competition gun. Personally I might have opted for 3 slightly different Glocks. The Glock 19 is very slightly smaller, but the most popular model. 19MOS is the red dot version, new and hard to find. 19M is the latest, is not really available yet, still getting debugged also. So there are a ridiculous number of choices, including color options. There are also all sorts of imitation or training Glocks, which allow you to do the 90% of practicing that does not actually involve punching a hole in a target. Believe it or not, breathing style is probably the single most important thing to practice.
In any case, expect to shoot several thousand rounds each to get your skills to a reasonable level. Which if you are a Costco style shopper, means buying several thousand rounds of ammo at once to save money. Ammo quality and purpose varies greatly and correlates to price. For instance, cheap ammo often comes from Russia, is unpowered and prone to failure, and questionable for a gun that is not yet broken in. Expensive ammo is expensive, but cops tend to use it, because they cannot afford to use something unreliable,
At this point you are like someone with a learners permit or someone that just bought a new cell phone. Becoming a good driver or shooter or texter takes practice, repetition and study. Much like driving, the initial goal is to get you comfortable and build safe habits. So that you do not do damage. Eventually you can be trusted on your own to share common space with others of varying ability. Actually hitting your target comes a bit later.
You will need some form of holster unless you never put the gun down, which of course is not possible. Keeping it in your pocket or in a bag without a holster is considered unsafe. Holsters are like pants, no one fits everyone best, and because it tends to be uncomfortable, people keep trying different ones.
You will find that Glocks are considered value guns, not Saturday Night Specials, but very utilitarian. A good gun for someone that does not particularly care about guns either way. They are not weapons of mass murder or invisible to metal detectors. What they are is extremely cost effective to manufacture, extremely reliable, and extremely well marketed to law enforcement departments, which get them for prices that you could not believe. The company is known for the best customer service in the industry. Because Glocks are relatively cheap and reliable, people sometimes try to abuse them to see at what point they cease to function. They treat them like a rental car. The manufacturer looks upon this rather benevolently as a sort of extreme test. And even when guns come back broken due to user error, they typically step up and replace or repair them regardless of warranty.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)Imajika
(4,072 posts)....for another generation.
Not only do Republicans have dominance at the federal level and in the majority of states, the fact that Trump has weaseled his way into the White House has prompted a lot of people on the left who had never been pro gun to go out and buy firearms for self protection.
Gun control has been a loser of an issue for us in recent history anyway, so I can't say I'm too upset at this one development.
The right hates us, and we have reason to fundamentally distrust them. That is a prescription for everyone on both sides arming up and gun control/gun safety measures mostly going nowhere for years to come.
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)Texas seems like an awfully RW place and it's getting scarier. Last spring they started allowing students to carry concealed weapons on college campuses. I think that's a pretty good sign that unless you're already a gun aficionado there are more congenial states to live in.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)ucrdem
(15,703 posts)If he's living in fear of his life he needs to move. Staying put isn't going to accomplish anything beneficial, with or without guns. Moving isn't so easy, but in this case I think it should be seriously considered, and if leaving the state isn't an option, possibly he could find a less hostile neighborhood. And unless he finds the local gun culture appealing I'd advise against joining it.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)As noted in my posts #49 and #51 above. They didn't move- they fought back
And why, exactly, shouldn't him and his husband do so?
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)If he liked guns and relished the idea of getting into gun battles, that would be one thing. But he said in his first sentence that he doesn't, and that being the case, buying a gun is inviting trouble. How on earth is it going to help him? How did it help Rosa Parks? Did she shoot that Birmingham bus driver? No of course not. Maybe she liked guns, many do, but guns didn't secure her civil rights.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)He may very well go to a gun range and decide not to keep his guns. It's *his* choice, not ours
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)If the OP is at all curious about it, and/or if the guns can't simply be returned for a refund, which would be my best advice -- how would he dispose of unwanted firearms later, anyway? -- and if it's not going to cause some new unforeseen problem, like lifetime registry in the NRA files or some such, and if the shooting range personnel and clientele are reasonably respectable and not a crowd of haters, then there might be a benefit. I'd recommend extreme caution, but I'm pretty sure the OP would use it anyway.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)They can be sold. The local gun store is like a car dealer in that respect, offering too little. With Glocks, you can strip off the complete slide and legally sell it on Ebay for around $300. And consign the frame and mags at the gun store for around $150. The frame is technically what is considered the gun. No one makes you join the NRA, many gun owners are not. Many gun clubs do require it because the NRA provides cheap insurance if every club member joins.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)but while I believe that he is afraid, I do not feel that he is really more at risk in 2017 than he was in 2016. If he acts like an adult, buys a gun, gets professional training, and continues to behave like an adult, it would go a long way to discourage negative stereotypes of gun owners. I admit that it is a bit of a club, and the politics may be daunting, but that is probably nothing new given where he lives. While I have never actually seen her, Rachel Maddow shoots where I go, as do a lot of non stereotypical shooters. He might be surprised. Doesn't hurt to try.
ElkeH
(105 posts)The problem is the rural counties are still able to overpower the urban centers. Consequentially the state legislature is still right wing. Yet places like Austin, Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio increasingly vote Democratic. For example, Hillary Clinton defeated Trump in Harris County (Houston) by a wider margin than President Obama defeated Romney in 2012. Southern Texas is also becoming more and more blue.
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)That doesn't make its gun culture any less toxic and dangerous however.
Paladin
(28,739 posts)Best update yourself on the reality of the situation.
And you best curb the snotty Texas-bashing, as well. With Trump as president, the entire U.S. now bears a striking resemblance to Texas. Devote yourself to changing that unfortunate situation, and get a feel for how things are for Texas Democrats.
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)And if the Texification you refer to is happening, and it's possible, it's a) anti-democratic if not criminal and b) worth moving as far away from as possible.
Cha
(305,181 posts)
May your getting your gun and going through everything to learn how to use it only bring you and your husband Peace of Mind.. and you never have to have a reason to use it.
The hate is out there in the Millions and drumpfuck encourages it(remember when he called on the 2nd Amendment people to do something about Hillary?) .. I don't think you're being melodramatic.
Snackshack
(2,541 posts)But certainly understandable.
The old saying:
"God made man, Smith & Wesson made them equal"
Does have a kernel of truth to it. Best tip I have ever heard towards firearm safety for new firearm owner is always treat a firearm as if it was loaded...even if you know otherwise.
Truth321
(93 posts)From the gun control act of 1934 to the gun control act of 1968 to the 1994 gun control law to New Yorks recent gun bans to the new California gun bans Democrats have always been for elimination of firearms. All other civilized nations have long since outlawed all firearms. USA stands alone on this lunacy. If Hillary had won right now we would be discussing the gun control she preached on the campaign trail for the last year. She promised it would be one of the 1st problems she would tackle. It sure looks like the trump effect has rubbed off on many here. Guess the Democrats are gonna be the pro gun party now. We gonna out repug the repugs.
aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)About gun ownership and about 50% said they did. Many were jot active shooters but a lot of us have guns.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)Completely false statement.
I am for heavy duty gun control, btw, but you making shit up doesn't help.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,569 posts)Without using your Justice Potter Stewart voice, please outline what an "assault weapon" is and how AWBs are useful. Maybe they're only useful if you just want to ban evil black rifles.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)-invest in a good gun safe
-take a self-defense class
-practice often! Keep your skills sharp
Crunchy Frog
(26,939 posts)First off, whatever my personal feelings, I think it's a losing issue politically, and a millstone around the neck of the party. I think it should be dropped from our platform, purely on pragmatic grounds.
Secondly, in the historical era that we're entering, I don't believe that RW nuts should be the only people armed.
Do whatever you feel you have to to feel safer, but please do it as carefully and safely as you possibly can.
I will not be joining you because I have two almost eight year old boys, and personally don't believe that it's possible to safely maintain firearms and little boys in the same household.
Response to Amimnoch (Original post)
kcr This message was self-deleted by its author.
kcr
(15,522 posts)just because you bought a gun. In the same way a woman doesn't "turn in her feminist card" just because she put some make up on. Or a liberal turns in their card because they bought an SUV. Just buy the gun if you think it makes you safer and be done with it. Who cares?
Unless you want to include that in it and go over to their side and advocate for GOP policies. In which case that's unfortunate. But that part won't make you any safer, so why do that?
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)I post the link to this article frequently. It's so sad, and so politically damaging that our side loses it's mind when it comes to gun violence: (dated, but forever relevant)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/7/4/881431/-
With regard to choice of weapon, don't make a final decision until you've fired an AR. Contrary to lies our team peddles w/regard to their utility solely for the purpose of slaughtering hordes of people, they do make excellent self-defense tools for a number of reasons. Ask yourself why police officers all across the country keep them in their vehicles. Are they planning on slaughtering hordes of people, or dealing with bad guys?
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/26/the-ar-for-home-defense-one-experts-opinion
As others have mentioned, keep your political feeling to yourself. Find an experienced liberal gun owner to show you the ropes. We exist!
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)And if you have old eyes, you can forget about pistol shooting. But if you are capable of shooting a qualifying score with a pistol after training, I would go with that. As I would recommend a MacBook for a typical user.
sarisataka
(20,930 posts)on training and safety I will simply send you three wishes
-be safe
-have fun
-may you never have need to use your firearms against another person
doc03
(36,623 posts)lost their minds, so I guess anything is possible. I think you made a good choice of weapons, a .22 would just
piss them off. A pistol of that size and weight in 9mm the recoil should be quite manageable. Myself I shoot a
Springfield XDM .40 cal. and even though the .40 cal. cartridge is more powerful than the 9mm the recoil
is pretty light IMO. I also have a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 magnum, now that thing is not much fun to shoot
more than just a few rounds. I have a Ruger LCP in .380 the recoil is much worse and it is more difficult to
shoot than the .40 cal. because it is so light.
HeartachesNhangovers
(831 posts)is that you can live in almost any environment you want. Americans move for work, to be closer to friends or family, because they want a change of scenery, or for no real reason at all.
The political environment in almost all of L.A., the entire SF Bay Area, the large western cities in OR and WA, Chicago, D.C., Atlanta and many other places is completely different than that in Houston. Honestly, if you went from not allowing guns in your home to buying THREE of them because you fear for your safety, you just need to move. Don't let people tell you that moving means the Republicans win - it doesn't make any difference either way.
wincest
(117 posts)i lived in Ca my entire life, and while it may be one of the safest states for lgbt people, there are still plenty of hate crimes committed here.
HeartachesNhangovers
(831 posts)safest states for lgbt people. I just think people should live where they are comfortable. It's a great big country - what's the point of living somewhere where you think all your neighbors are out to get you?
I definitely don't think buying THREE guns is going to improve the OP's quality of life. Not because I hate guns - I'm an occasional target shooter - I just think that arming yourself is towards the bottom of the list of things you can do to improve your personal security. What's towards the top: Moving away from places that are unsafe.
wincest
(117 posts)my point was he should not be forced to move. ultimately its his and his husbands right to stay and fight if they choose.
ToolMaker
(27 posts)First off, owning a gun is not a bad thing! Second, owning a gun and attending one or two range classes WILL NOT make you safer to any degree. Far too many people focus on "feeling" safer, rather than actually BEING safer. Being safer involves changing the way you view and interact with the world around you. Seek training that focuses on security as a whole, not just use of a firearm. Firearms are the last ditch, worst case solution to personal safety.
Seek out training that focuses on recognizing danger and tactics to avoid and negate violence. While it may sound simple, it really is an educational requirement. You can't read a book or watch a YouTube video to learn this on your own. It actually does require training from someone that understands personal security and safety. Since you have already acquired firearms, this training should incorporate firearms into an overall training experience.
Plan to practice with your firearms... A LOT! Shooting is a perishable skill that must be maintained. The initial learning curve will be very steep, and will likely require a lot of effort. Just mastering the basics will require more time than many people imagine. Once you reach a reasonable level of competency in the basics, you will begin to build on those skills to learn how to REALLY use a gun.
As much as it may pain a lot of liberals to imagine, attend a high end, reputable training facility, if you can afford it. Yes, many of the training facilities and instructors have a right leaning, even far right, political view. As strange as it may sound, this really doesn't come up at the good quality schools to any real degree. While the owners/operators/instructors may be conservative, they are also professional enough to leave politics outside the classroom. Even the ones that are more prone to bring political views to the class will respond to clients. Simply call them and explain that you are not interested in an instructor that preaches politics of any type. Trust me, if you put together a group of like minded people that want to attend their class, they will be perfectly happy to accommodate that small request.
As a final thought, if you find that you actually enjoy shooting (as many people do), look into competitive shooting. This is probably the best way to sharpen and maintain your physical skills with a gun. This is not "combat/defensive" training. This is skills development. Most competitive events combine accuracy and speed (timed events) to create stress. They all require absolute safety and will help you develop safe handling skills. Competitive shooting is very beneficial to this process, and it's a lot of fun!
rgbecker
(4,876 posts)wincest
(117 posts)look up Hickok45 on youtube. he has a lot of vids about glocks.
he never talks politics, only gun safety and maintenance.
TomJulie
(100 posts)And it hasn't changed since adulthood and getting married. We keep a Glock 9mm with night sights and a full clip of Cor-Bon ammo in a drawer in our headboard. In my computer room, I keep a SIG P220 45acp with a full clip of Cor-Bon. We also have a small safe we bought years ago that I keep other firearms I've bought over the years.
The difference between us that I see is, I refuse to live in fear. Yes, I'm concerned about Trump, especially who he will put in the Supreme Court but I'm not going to let that dictate as to how I live and conduct my life. You can do what you wish, that's your own choice but my wife & I are going to live our lives, as best we can, the way we always have.
Paladin
(28,739 posts)You've got a Glock 9 and a SIG 45 and other weaponry and ammo strategically stashed in your home, but you claim that you "...refuse to live in fear." Doesn't sound like it.
In any case, anybody who's not apprehensive about the incoming lunatic administration damn sure ought to be.
TomJulie
(100 posts)ROTFLOL!!! The bedroom and computer in your mind is strategically placed? Oh well, you have the right to your opinion.
Agreed...I'm very apprehensive about the coming administration, but done is done. I'm not going to sit around wasting away watching TV and get all depressed with what is almost certainly going to be on the cable news and go panic city. My wife and I are gonna live our our lives, at least to the best of our abilities, the way we always have and let the chips fall where they may. When it's time to panic...I will.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Did you enjoy the shooting?
I love target practice, but then, I grew up with it. Summer camp with 22s, and later dad teaching me handgun shooting.
Keep us posted!
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Star Wars Stormtroopers have better aiming skills than I do.
Our instructor (my co-worker) checked us into the club as guests, and we signed the waiver, took the tour, and went through the club rules.
Didn't really spend much time shooting at all today. Went through how to stand, proper ways to hold, and some exercises to get familiar with the guns. Did some dry firing (getting the feel for the trigger without ammo being in it).
I'm already sick of being reminded "squeeze it, don't pull it".
On the way home we stopped by Academy sport and bought a gun safe for them.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I had a hard time as a teen with my dad's 45. Couldn't handle the jump as a young and small girl. But I got better and stronger. Dad was patient.
All those things they're teaching you are valuable.
I don't have a handgun now. I plan to go to one of the local ranges and rent different ones till I find one that works for me. I'm still small, but a pretty strong woman. Just need something that fits my small hand.
Meantime, we do have a .22 rifle for the farm, and sadly, I've killed varmints with it. But that's life in the country.
Best thing to have is a shotgun, but I need a new one.
You'll find you like shooting. it's a skill, and a fun one to learn. But it does take practice.
sweetapogee
(1,171 posts)shooting scenes in the movies show actors using an incorrect grip. It takes practice to grip a semi-auto handgun properly every time without thinking about what your doing. Glock triggers have a unique feel. There are inexpensive ways to improve the feel but it is probably best to keep them stock if the primary intent of them is for self-defense.
It sounds like your friend is a good instructor as he took you through the boring but necessary first steps to basic marksmanship. All good marksmen, those who compete do dry firing exercises at home. The really good ones dry fire every day unless they are at the range. There is a lot to safe and accomplished handling of firearms as I'm sure your beginning to see.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)As the saying goes, the best safety is between your ears. so if you look at their trigger, there is a trigger within the trigger. It makes it difficult to pull the trigger by accident. Military likes to test by doing things like freezing a loaded gun in a block of ice, then trying to shoot it, dropping it off a building, throwing it down as hallway, you name it. Without accidentally firing it but requiring that it work when used intentionally. Glock does pass these tests. So there are reasons that Glock triggers feel different. In addition, some police forces like NYC, have required triggers that make the Glock difficult to fire accurately. But for some reason, a certain part used in the NYC trigger can be used to make a normal trigger feel better, while still allowing you to use just factory supplied parts. This matters for a bunch of reasons. Lastly, Glocks designed for competition come with a lighter trigger, designed to be easier to set off than one in a carry gun. Not sure if the 17L is one. Lost anyone yet?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I intend to go to a range where you can rent different types to see what fits best.
Nothing to do with the Shitgibbon however; this has been on my list for awhile.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)90% of practice does not involve punching holes in things.
This guy did a lot of "squeeze it, don't pull it" as have others that have qualified for the Olympics while rarely shooting.
A great deal of practice is managing your breathing and your heart rate. An Olympic level shooter puts all their shots into one hole. The winner makes the smallest hole. And ideally they pull the trigger between heartbeats.
Shooter Hoang Xuan Vinh not only defied his short-sightedness to bring home Vietnam’s first-ever Olympic gold medal, but also sub-standard training conditions at home, where he had to practice with paper targets and a shortage of ammunition.
The 42-year-old military colonel quenched his country’s thirst for a first gold medal in 64 years of Olympic competition by acing the men’s 10m air pistol event during Sunday’s opening of competition at Rio 2016.
But it is not the only thing that makes Vinh’s medal historic. What is more significant about his victory in Brazil is that he has had to “watch the bullets,” or practice using as few rounds of ammunition as possible, in preparation for the Games.
Bullets may be an indispensible part of the sport of shooting, but Vietnam has faced a shortage of ammunition for its national shooting squads in recent years, with shooters having no choice but to try to do without.
Nguyen Tan Nam, head coach of the Hanoi shooting team, told Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper in May that some 100 athletes in his squad had not “heard the sound of gunshot for ages.”
“As there is no ammunition, every day when they come here for training, the shooters just raise the gun, pull the trigger to hear the ‘tick’ sound, and that’s all,” he elaborated.
Sometimes the team is lucky enough to be able to buy shotgun ammunition, used in bird hunting, for practice.
Only when athletes attend competitions are they given bullets for practice, according to the coach.
“The biggest headache is that as the athletes train without bullets, we cannot evaluate their skills and ability,” Nam added.
A member of the national shooting team and a Southeast Asian Games medalist told Tuoi Tre that ammunition shortages are not uncommon for the country’s shooters because bullets are expensive.
“However, that a team has not had a single bullet to practice with for a whole year is unprecedented,” he said, preferring to remain anonymous.
The shooter underlined that there is a big difference between training with and without bullets.
“Constantly practicing with no bullets just makes our skills poorer,” he said. “We become discouraged and usually have to end the training session early.”
Every member of the shooting team of the northern city of Hai Phong, for example, is granted an average of three bullets per month.
“We do not know when to use these ‘precious’ bullets,” coach Pham Cao Son said.
In addition, some Hai Phong shooters have been using plastic bottles filled with sand to hone their skills.
The situation is brighter for Vinh and Tran Quoc Cuong however, as Vietnam’s top performing shooters.
During their sessions in preparation for Rio 2016, Vinh and Cuong were each given 100 rounds of ammunition a day for practice.
Even still, at the national training center in Hanoi, all representative shooters are forced to practice with paper targets, at a time when all international competitions use electronic ones.
“Under these conditions, it is no surprise that Vietnam never grabbed an Olympic medal,” Nguyen Hong Minh, who used to lead Team Vietnam at Olympic events, told Tuoi Tre on Sunday.
“The gold medal of Vinh is truly exceptional.”
Response to Amimnoch (Reply #112)
Name removed Message auto-removed
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Which is a rather specific set of circumstances. The pistol can be on your person (assume that is why OP bought 3 of them), where in theory it is safe from mischief and at hand. Personally I do not enjoy shooting a home defense shotgun at the range, a lot of ranges have more restrictions on home defense shotgun use than they do on handgun use. I do really enjoy shooting sporting clays aka golf with a shotgun, which can be an expensive way to spend a morning, and utilizes a different (expensive again) kind of shotgun and a much bigger facility and larger group of shooters than a handgun range.
The pistol tends to be the preferred choice for business type carry, the suburban contractor that just got paid cash to repair a boiler for instance. If concealed, no one knows that you have it, it is non threatening.
I think that the ideal option is really based on individual needs. But the pistol definitely has a steeper learning curve.
Response to HoneyBadger (Reply #146)
Name removed Message auto-removed
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Just my speculation
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Great!
cwydro
(51,308 posts)But sometimes I buy targets and attach them to a hay bale. It's fun.
bullimiami
(13,984 posts)The law allows you pea-shooters. The govt has tanks.
The 2nd amendment argument is a foolish sham.
And the NRA is a nest of exploitative liars.
2nd Amendment or no. The law restricts "we the people" from more weapons than it allows.
You can't have machine guns, grenades, RPGs, armored vehicles, tactical body armor. Just for starters.
The Govt agents have all that.
They also have helicopters, planes, bombs, modern surveillence and communications. ...
The notion that a few Glocks or even a basement full of M16s would be enough to protect you from the "Government" is insane.
This is the same point Ive made to RW friends who have made that argument to me.
If the Govt comes you are not going to stop them.
Neither is a country full of gun nuts.
Calista241
(5,597 posts)That the 1st Armored Division knows where you are, and has enough time to mobilize tanks to come and get you, you deserve what you get.
The threat of an armed populace isn't standing toe to toe with a tank, fighter jet or platoon of soldiers. The threat is to the soldier or the politician that's oppressing a group of people, when they go home at night. They go shopping for groceries, they drive to work, and they fill their cars up with gas. They do all that shit without a tank, fighter jet, or platoon of soldiers protecting them.
bullimiami
(13,984 posts)Calista241
(5,597 posts)In an armed uprising, cops will become targets as representatives of the state. They go get groceries, buy gas, drive to work, etc. We've already had more cop killings this year than in previous years, and that's a big deal.
Now if you're talking about 3 dudes performing this uprising, bad shit's going to happen to those guys. But if there are 1000 people fighting for a cause, there's going to be a lot of killing before it comes to an end.
SQUEE
(1,319 posts)You need to do research on what is and isn't legal to own, that's without discussing how insurgency works, and argument i don't think you can handle.
For starters...I can buy body armor on Ebay..
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 2, 2017, 08:03 PM - Edit history (1)
That said very very few people buy it. It is illegal to buy in CT, but legal to own, which has always seemed like a conflict to me.
Here is a picture of super successful rapper YG wearing a bulletproof vest at a fashion show while sitting near Kanye. Apparently they are trendy hip hop wear these days. YG is known for performing F Donald Trump at Coachella.
in certain (most) states, machine guns and silencers can be purchased by "civilians", by going through the ATF. They are a lot more expensive than semi autos, that's for sure. One can even buy a tank with a functioning cannon...
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)But they are unregulated in European countries like France, it is like buying a box of candy, and the the police supposedly encourage you to use them to abate noise pollution. Threaded barrels allowing the use of silencers are likewise encouraged. Very interesting given the bias against the assault weapon associations.
Machine guns, while legal in much of the US, are priced like new cars, and largely unaffordable to the majority.
I do not believe that legally possessed silencers and machine guns have been used in more than 2 or 3 crimes in the US is the last 50 years. Same with tanks.
Tanks are quite rare though Brad Pitt has one.
yagotme
(3,816 posts)where silencers are required for hunting, if not range shooting also. Like you said, can be bought in a store like candy, right next to Hardware!
But, my bringing up machine guns, they can be had, if one saves up all his pennies. There are those that say "Yeah, the gubmint ain't afraid of your huntin' rifle," but they forget that those aren't the only weapons out there. Tankers have to refuel/pit stop eventually, and they have a fairly limited range from the gas stop. As the Brits say, the "petrol bowsers" are the weak points for armor.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,569 posts)Owning handguns, rifles and shotguns for legal use by those not restricted from possession is not some creeping plague that will turn folks into fascists or spread hepatitis. The OP did not mention the NRA nor any right wing propagandists.
The essence of the 2A is to level the foundation on which personal freedom is built. There is no "special class" like the Japanese Samurai or the Waffen SS here. While some folks drive an Abrams for work, they don't bring them home. A 1911 OTOH is different, everyone can bring one home. The idea that everyone shares certain rights and personal freedoms is an essential for which the Founders set protections.
Sharing that freedom is what protects us from the government in that SWAT, the Abrams crew and all 180,000+ Marines are at their core Americans. The more aspects of law act as permissions for some minority and restrictions for others, the more an "us and them" mentality sets in. It is that mentality that must be protected against.
I don't own a gun. I trust the folks in our armed forces and law enforcement to respect me and the rest of we Americans because they are first and always Americans.
adigal
(7,581 posts)to a Muslim family as sanctuary if they ever need it. I would never use a gun if law enforcement came, but if the local crazies came? Yes, I think I have a right to protect my family, friends and property.
My mother was on a rifle team when in her 20s, my husband was a cop, my Marine Corp father taught me to shoot, and I am a better shot than my husband. Might take it up. Get a big 2nd Amendment bumper sticker, put it next to my #notmypresident bumper sticker.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)Would be chocked full of responses with the phrases "gun humper", "guns don't protect anyone", and perhaps a few penis size references.
I'm not against responsible gun ownership, and there's certainly some good advice in this thread, but the fact that I see none of that here is pretty surprising.
ucrdem
(15,703 posts)and other unintended gun deaths, but where is the evidence of guns making ordinary citizens safer? And even in law enforcement, where firearms are SOP, where is the objective evidence that any of that paramilitary firepower actually makes communities better? The NRA would like us to see gun ownership as a sacred right, and while it is a legal right, that doesn't mean it isn't also a vice. Lots of freedoms guaranteed by US law -- including slavery for a time -- aren't so virtuous. Smoking and drinking are two others that come to mind. Yes, we have legal rights to puff and tipple, and I'd be the last to ban either, but that doesn't mean we're not better off avoiding them.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)As an example, diamond merchants in NY walk around with millions of dollars on them every day. Have you ever heard of even one being robbed? It does happen about once every five years, which is shocking considering that a 5 minute robbery can net enough booty for a lifetime. Guess why. Some would imply that it is because while privilege protects them. I would disagree.
Here is a Glock factory testing video that I thought some might appreciate. Just for amusement.
https://www.facebook.com/BravoConcealment/videos/1245195545563392/