Did those white folks that switched really vote for Obama or for campaign Obama?

[djsunyc]

it seems to me that these folks voted more on the charisma and campaign of the candidate than the actual policies.

are we looking at those voters that switched this year in the wrong light? maybe they are just easy to convince and why they were able to be swayed by the more charismatic candidate and better "catchphrase" campaign?

[asuhornets]

1. I don't believe they voted for Obama in 08 or 12....nt

[hollowdweller]

9. My Brother Voted for Obama, then Romney, then Trump

He also voted for Buchanan and Jesse Jackson. Jackson of course was critical of outsourcing.

[asuhornets]

15. Whoa!!! Did he say why he voted for Romney and Trump? Just wondering...nt

[True_Blue]

16. Me either

I don't know anyone who voted for Obama that would even consider voting for Trump.

[Igel]

31. Neither do I.

Not that I'm aware of, at least. Then again, I travel in rather restricted social circles and when I break out of that little sphere of interactivity I don't typically talk politics.

Then again, I did know some idjits who voted for Obama because race.

I told one idjit that was utterly gung-ho for Obama that he supported the war in Iraq and opposed increased entitlements, and she ran off delightedly to inform her peers about that bit of wisdom. I imagine that conversation went in an interesting way. Not all tenured PhDs have a clue outside of their particular narrow field. If you support a politician and proselytize for him, you should have an inkling, at least a little itsy-bitsy mini-inkling, as to what he stands for. Instead of voting for skin color.

In other words, there was a liberal band-wagon effect in 2008. In the last election, my kid came home from middle school with the most relevatory stories about Clinton and Trump. Seldom did either have much relationship to the truth. But it's what his peers were saying, and their source of "wisdom" was entirely their parents. I assume that the level of misinformation and disinformation and just plain non-information in circulation was a bit higher than in 2008, but not by so much as an order of magnitude.

[onecaliberal]

2. Shitler is not charismatic IMO

He's a mean girl.

[TheLibIn615]

3. Very few of the so-called white working class flipped allegiances.

The variable was turnout of the Obama coalition.

And, in places like Wisconsin, a large part of that same variable was that they were not allowed to turn out.

[uponit7771]

22. +1, due to voter suppression...41000 estimate in WI

[PotatoChip]

35. If that were truly the case, what explains the flipping of Maine's 2nd Congressional District?

(Maine splits Electoral Votes by Congressional District. Trump won Maine's 2nd by 52%-41%--- only 1 EV vote tho)

The district hasn't voted R for POTUS since 1988. It is 95.5% white. So yeah, white people (at least in this area) flipped from Obama to Trump.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

4. Those people were attracted to the message of CHANGE both times

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Washington is broken and needs drastic change. Obama represented positive change on a message of Hope. Because Obama was blocked at doing a great deal of the things he wanted to do people were frustrated and angry that more has not changed. So along came Trump who used his slimy sales and marketing abilities to tap into and exploit that anger and frustration. He campaigned on a more negative "Blow the bastards up" type of change. This is what happened in the rust belt and led to Trump winning. So many people calling these voters racists/sexists and bigots is inaccurate and a massive mistake. These voters are likely to vote AGAINST Trump next time IF Democrats don't screw up and alienate them. Many on this site are trying damn hard to do that and it would be the absolute WORST thing to do.

[JHan]

6. We've chatted on this before...

I'm curious your take on this:

(the two articles I shared in the link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118759081

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

19. Just scanning over them they look interesting

I do think that some good points were made about poorer class people being manipulated into focusing on race in order to divide people who could and should unite for the same causes.

The same thing happens over and over again. I did see a comment there discussing the slavery history and some people saying to "get over it." I think that is a history we really need to understand and recognize. At the same time, there are none of the people who enslaved others alive now and it must be addressed and discussed in a way that doesn't come across like current people are being blamed.

I grew up in rural New England where I didn't have any ingrained beliefs or experiences regarding race. My children were raised the same way. We moved to a southern state when my youngest was in middle school. That child is the most kind, loving, fair, considerate and thoughtful person you would ever meet. We moved into a rental community of mostly black, hispanic and muslim families. There were maybe 5 white kids out of 30-40 kids at the bus stop. She was nice and friendly with EVERY group and ultimately had friends from each group of kids. There were a portion of the black kids who immediately assumed that she didn't like black people simply because she was white. How sad is it that her first experience with a larger group of black kids were to essentially be called a racist when she is anything but? There is so much work to be done on race relations. It has to come from all sides, too. More white people need to recognize and stand up against institutional racism and stereotypes and call out real racism when they see it. More black people need to recognize and stand up against assumptions and careless false accusations of people being racists. These are the two most damaging and pervasive problems with race relations today. There definitely are some horrible and disgusting bigots out there who will never change. Trying to fight them is about as effective as spitting into the wind.

If whites focused on noticing and pointing out institutional racism and blacks focused on noticing and pointing out assumptions and false accusations of racism for the next generation I think we'd all be a hell of a lot better off.

My grandson's best friend is a black son of an immigrant. Neither one of them see the color of each other's skin. They play with legos, star wars toys, mine craft, do homework together, exchanged Christmas gifts, etc. This is what is natural...they have a ton in common and their race has absolutely nothing to do with any of it. As adults it's out job to NOT teach kids to be biased against each other over race, and it does happen on both sides. I think if we all start there it would make a massive difference in the next generation.

[JI7]

5. there weren't that many. about equal number voted for Hillary and mccain/romney

[Ace Rothstein]

7. It probably depends on the state.

This was definitely the case in Ohio. You don't get a 600k plus vote difference in 4 years without some voters switching parties. I still can't get over how badly she did there.

[Exilednight]

11. You pretty much nailed it.

I have several accuantiances in Cleveland who voted for Obama in '08 and '12 and then voted for Trump this year. White middle-class educated 30 somethings, they perfectly fit the profile.

Yes, I know 17 voters is anecdotal evidence, but it does fit.

[Ace Rothstein]

14. You know 17 people who voted Obama then Trump?

Did they say why they switched?

[Exilednight]

17. None of them liked Hillary.

Hillary's public persona is a tough sell. There's a lot of history behind her, and it's not easily dismissed.

Two of the women believe her to be less than authentic in her reason for standing by Bill after his admitted adultery.

A few of the men are tired of dynasty politics (Bush/Clinton) the rest are mostly agrivated at a system that continually let them down. People want bold action, not work around the margins incremental progress.

[EL34x4]

24. "There's a lot of history behind her, and it's not easily dismissed. "

We dismissed it here pretty easily. We just hid the posts that mentioned it!

Why couldn't the voters have done the same?

[Exilednight]

26. Don't include me in your "we".

I voted for her, but I also knew that her history could cost us this election,

The best indicator of future performance is past performance. If people think that Obama had it rough with the GOP, they were in for a big surprise if Hillary had won. It would have been four years of nothing getting done.

[EL34x4]

27. My point was that posts that brought up Hillary's negatives...

...were all too often pounced upon by DU's "hide bandits" who flagged them for "spreading right wing talking points" or "bashing Democratic public figures." --A practice that's still going on here in the post mortem where Hillary's loss can be attributed to anything and everything except the candidate herself because, as we are reminded over and over again, "She won the popular vote!!!"

[Reality101]

36. I think after the GWB presidency more people are against any kind of dynasty elections

GWB was worried this election that he may have been the last R to win, however he may be the last family member to win at least for a while. I think that played a role in the loss this year.

[duffyduff]

8. They didn't. This is a media bullshit narrative.

They are trying to pretend there are "Trump Democrats" similar to those Reagan Democrats.

[JI7]

10. even the REagan Democrats were mainly dixiecrats

[uponit7771]

21. +1

[YoungDemCA]

33. Evidence that this is a "bullshit median narrative?"

Thanks.

[HoneyBadger]

12. 2 of my cousins

They are non white naturalized citizens, one a dentist that worked on Rose Kennedy, the other a classic musician of some reknown.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Something pretty clearly happened in the upper midwest.

I suppose we can try and learn from it, or not.

[Lurks Often]

29. We not going to learn from it n/t

[LenaBaby61]

18. Those who voted for tRumputin ...

And who hated Hillary will be getting some change alright. The tRumputin crime mob family on steroids.

Good luck, or maybe NOT to them.

[uponit7771]

20. Yes but Obama wasn't running against an overt racist

[Grey Lemercier]

23. The Counties That Flipped From Obama To Trump, In 3 Charts

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502032052/lots-of-people-voted-for-obama-and-trump-heres-where-in-3-charts





These maps show where the Trump surge happened and the places that flipped from supporting President Obama in 2012 to going for the Republican nominee and billionaire real-estate mogul just four years later.



In some places, the changes were more concentrated. Just three counties flipped from Obama to Trump in the Keystone State — Erie County along the Ohio border, Northampton County in the Allentown suburbs and Luzerne County, where the Wilkes-Barre suburbs. Luzerne saw a 25-point swing from Obama to Trump. Traditionally red counties in Pennsylvania, in particular, saw a massive shift in the margins toward Trump, as well.

But in Wisconsin — the state that ended up putting Trump over the top in the electoral vote early Wednesday morning — 22 counties that had once voted for Obama switched to Trump. Some of those counties — such as Sawyer, Forest and Adams — have some of the highest unemployment rates in the state.

Michigan had 12 counties that went from blue to red, including critical Macomb in the Detroit suburbs and the swing counties of Calhoun and Monroe.

Iowa had a whopping 31 of its 99 counties that went from the Obama column to Trump's. The bellwether county of Cedar, which has picked the winner of every presidential race since 1992, again got it right. Even though Obama carried it by 4 points in 2012, Trump won it by 18 this year.

You can check out the demographic trends, unemployment data, education level in these states and more in the state tables and results complied by the NPR Visuals Team. Other states, such as Minnesota and Maine, also saw significant swings from Obama to Trump. Clinton held on narrowly to win in Minnesota, though 19 counties went from the blue to the red column from four years ago. In Maine, Trump picked up 1 electoral vote for winning Maine's 2nd Congressional District.


snip

[libtodeath]

25. 25 years of lies and smears combined with voter suppression,vote flipping and Russian hacking

matter too.

[vi5]

28. I know more than a few who did...

..They were for Obama's economic message and even though they may have had racists tendencies they genuinely wanted a change in direction and were willing to put that aside to vote for him. Some did in '08 and not in '12 but they also didn't vote for Romney so that's why I think it was less noticeable that year than in '16.

And yeah, I definitely think that a charismatic candidate with a much shorter record of things to use against him definitely helped Obama and the inverse hurt Hillary.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

30. It wouldn't surprise me if some white voters switched to Trump after seeing...

... the BLM protests.

I'm not sure if it was significant, but I think it probably played a role of some kind. Although BLM had good reasons, it's obviously hard to organize everyone to maintain a civil image. Anything that hinted otherwise was pounced upon by FOX News and other media sources.

Some whites were frightened by black movements in the late 60's that displayed militant traits too.

[Tatiana]

32. Yes, they did. And yes, they voted for the charisma.

With a lack of jobs and charisma to be had, they voted for the bully that reminded them most of themselves.

Kinda how many people during Selection 2000 said they voted for the incurious George W. Bush because he was a guy they could "have a beer with." Because that's who, apparently, they want to lead the free world.

[NCTraveler]

34. The meme that they were Obama voters was made up whole cloth by the Bro's. nt.