2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSuggestion: we stop with the "Chump" "tRump" "RePug" namecalling and focus on issues
I cringe every time I see progressives use these terms during political discussions. This kind of schoolyard "you're a poo-poo head" taunting makes us look childish and petty and takes away from the real, serious issues we're trying to address.
Referring to our adversaries by their actual names won't normalize or elevate them or diminish our position. In fact, it will make it easier for us to get across our point.
Amishman
(5,810 posts)That is a level of respect the bastards haven't earned.
we can do it
(12,774 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)sfwriter
(3,032 posts)We should be about alternatives and ideas.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)libtodeath
(2,892 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Who is the paradigm of respectful politics.
libtodeath
(2,892 posts)MoonRiver
(36,974 posts)BP2
(554 posts)libtodeath
(2,892 posts)we dont need or want them in the Democratic party.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)maybe, just maybe some of them aren't?
libtodeath
(2,892 posts)Makes them ok with it in my book.
Fuck them.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Call me stupid, but I think there is room for Americans to still work together IF we stop with the close minded hate. Not every Trump voter is a racist and a misogynist, and if we keep focusing on dividing, we will keep losing. The Republicans have enough rope to hang themselves, so let's provide a sane alternative when they do.
I am angry too, but satisfying my own frustrations and anger by striking out and name calling does not contribute to a sane America, it just makes others who disagree with me dig in their heels.
atreides1
(16,386 posts)"Not every Trump voter is a racist and a misogynist,..."!!!
Not every German was a Nazi, and many supported Hitler because he promised jobs and a better economy...even after Kristallnacht!|
They did and said nothing while Hitler dehumanized all non-Aryans, they looked the other way when the "People's Court" tried, convicted, and executed dissenters...ever heard of the White Rose Society?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose
Looking at history, that "not all Trump voters are..."excuse, just isn't good enough for me!!!
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Are we there? Really? Cause if we are, then get your guns and start shooting...
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... feel outside the norm and always know Americans know they're fringe.
That's pretty much the tactic security agencies are taking with ISIS recruites... don't normalize them
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)How is that working for us?
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... Americans voted for the other person.
The rest of the loss is Comey, Russia and voter suppression everything else is guessing.
But to get back to the RWTP normalizing Benedict Donald and his Band Of Bigots is way more dangerous than calling him names the non independent Trump voters don't like.
I'll not repeat the bad parts of history ... I've learned from it
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)uponit7771
(91,754 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)libtodeath
(2,892 posts)Response to libtodeath (Reply #30)
uponit7771 This message was self-deleted by its author.
libtodeath
(2,892 posts)uponit7771
(91,754 posts)libtodeath
(2,892 posts)uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... what works because part of their motivation is glory.
If they're going to be religated to the stupid part of history it lets the wind out of their sales
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But calling them stupid nicknames actually makes them caricatures, far less dangerous than they are, and makes us look childish and unserious.
This is very different than calling him and his supporters out for enabling racism and misogyny. But it is amusing to see some of the same people who insist that we must all be extraordinarily deferential and respectful to Trump voters turn around and call the guy they voted for stupid names.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... names keeps up the label for others who don't know and establish's they're fringe often enough.
On this issue I'm going to go with history not my or other peoples feelings.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(10,026 posts)probably just feeding a troll in this case.
libtodeath
(2,892 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Joe said:
Theyre all the people I grew up with. Theyre their kids. And theyre not racist. Theyre not sexist. But we didnt talk to them.
article: http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-biden-interview-20161222-story.html
libtodeath
(2,892 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)MFM008
(20,000 posts)All this" respect"......
Our adversaries laugh at us
And always get the gold.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Blanks
(4,835 posts)I was a little disappointed in Robert Reich for calling him 'Drumpf' even though that's his actual family name.
Name calling is what THEY do, let's be better than that.
tavernier
(13,258 posts)Seems to me he got his point across conducting the worst name calling campaign in history, and we lost through our mannerly and respectful approach.
You can't wear a suit and tie when you're wrestling a pig.
LenaBaby61
(6,991 posts)SO agree with you.
(Great line by the way )
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)We lost for lots of reasons, but taking the high ground wasn't one of them. I don't respect Donald Trump and never will. I also will not lose respect for myself by selling out my principles, one of which is acting as a mature adult, not as a name-calling child.
Great leaders lead by example...
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But we should stop acting like him.
mythology
(9,527 posts)To quote somebody else who dealt with worse that being called names:
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Clinton didn't lose because Trump called her names. She lost because of that stupid email server.
tavernier
(13,258 posts)You are saying that ... ???
Nope. Sorry again.
Didn't get your point.
BeyondGeography
(40,014 posts)Wounded Bear
(60,683 posts)whatever anybody else calls him is their business. Frankly, I don't care about shit like this.
Whining amongst ourselves about petty shit like this is exactly what they want us to do. You do your thing, everybody else will do theirs. All will be fine.
How is arguing about shit like this "focusing on issues?" If you want to focus on issues, post about issues and ignore the chaff.
Problem solved.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)MineralMan
(147,575 posts)I would not suggest that people refrain from mocking Donald Trump, if that is how they feel. One of the things we do that holds us back is to pretend to be polite when that is the last thing we want to do. While it's admirable to treat even adversaries as honorable, it's not practical when those adversaries are far from honorable.
I don't want Donald Trump to be normalized. I want him to be mocked, ridiculed and challenged at every turn.
So, no thanks on your suggestion. Sorry.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)Calling this asshole names helps my blood pressure stay down.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I tune those posts right the fuck out.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)...I rather liked referring to 43 as President Bush as a reminder of the magnitude of the the fucking up he did.
President Trump will arrive in office with no idea of what he needs to do, no matter How many times it's explained to him. He simply has no interest in anything other than being a big shot, for which he'll receive four hundred large per year plus all the graft he can eat.
Paladin
(28,758 posts)When will we ever learn?
If you want to play nice with the monster president-elect and the dimwits who put him over the top, go right ahead. I will refer to Trump and his hordes any way I damn well please, and I encourage others to do likewise.
We have a brilliant, classy, scandal-free President who, with his wonderful family, has graced the White House for the past eight years. The only major fault I can ascribe to Barack Obama is how politely he treated a bunch of scumbag republicans, who hated his guts and who limited his effectiveness in every way possible, for every year/month/day/hour/minute of his time in office. There is no point in being nice to the likes of Mitch McConnell, or Jeff Sessions, or Mike Pence, or Donald Trump. They do not appreciate conciliatory behavior---they depend on Democrats to play nice, and in return, they stab us in the back. Every time. This country stands in mortal peril because a demonstrably insane individual is about to assume the presidency. Diplomacy will not work against this new regime---be it in the halls of Congress, or a Democratic online site. It's already ugly, and God willing, it will get a lot uglier, until this unprecedented threat to the nation is removed.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)It's nothing of the kind - it's simply making a choice not to emulate the people we claim to disdain.
Paladin
(28,758 posts)I stand by my prior comments.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)evidence of conciliation.
Charles Hamilton Houston, Thurgood Marshall, Dorothy Height, Martin Luther King, Cesar Chavez, Bayard Rustin, Malcolm X, Fannie Lou Hamer, etc. helped to dismantle a wretched, degrading system without once publicly calling anyone out of their names.
I stand by them.
Paladin
(28,758 posts)hamsterjill
(15,509 posts)If the name calling offends you, you are welcome to set the example by not engaging in it. But please refrain from expecting everyone else to be like you.
We are all individuals here. We are all adults. We can moderate our own behavior.
Donald Trump's election is going to harm me and my family in serious ways. I will call the sonofabitch whatever I feel like calling him - and whatever I call him will never fully describe the vileness about him because he is the worst of the worst.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)They're just saying it won't help. Take what you like and leave the rest...
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)Actually, that is exactly what the OP says ...
MFM008
(20,000 posts)...
ailsagirl
(23,801 posts)And I refuse to ever capitalize it.
It's all part of vehemently opposing the status quo
Paladin
(28,758 posts)hamsterjill
(15,509 posts)Hope you and your family enjoy a wonderful holiday season.
Paladin
(28,758 posts)Croney
(4,923 posts)I will never stop hating him for that verbal assault and all the others he rammed down our throats. I can't type his name. It sickens me.
3catwoman3
(25,436 posts)...DFT - Donald Fucking Trump.
Grey Lemercier
(1,429 posts)zappaman
(20,617 posts)Thanks.
DinahMoeHum
(22,488 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,903 posts)Unfortunately, this one will always be The Tangerine Nightmare to me.
MFM008
(20,000 posts)Use of a name denotes a form of respect.
That orange blob of shit is M A G G O T.
That's it.
ailsagirl
(23,801 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Part of the reason we lost is because we underestimated Trump. We spent a lot of time calling him names, reveling in how stupid he was, ridiculing his supporters and calling them cute names. Then we took it to the next level, getting into the mud pit to wrestle with him. It wasn't a good tactic for us, not our style, not what we do best. It cost us. I can't say it was the only factor in our loss, but it definitely contributed. We underestimated him, and his reality TV abilities. I think we have to take this guy seriously, because he is going to do some serious shit to our country, so thinking up cute names for him diverts our attention.
MFM008
(20,000 posts)And it's not why we lost the EC.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)We didn't make any mistakes. We were perfect. It was all "their fault." Your reply could easily qualify as sarcasm.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... our control which even if we were perfect doesn't change the outcome.
I'm not going to keep feeding the false sense of control by fooling myself into thinking those 3 factors weren't salient... I'll leave that up to other control freaks.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)We lost by only 80,000 votes spread out over three states. A small difference in our approach might have made the difference.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)Kilgore
(1,737 posts)Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,748 posts)spawn as Uday and Qusay makes me an immature idiot. So be it.
Squinch
(52,738 posts)Darrell." From now on, get it right.
renate
(13,776 posts)Call me a libtard or whatever, and my ears slam shut, even if whatever comes next is as eloquent as the Gettysburg Address. It makes a person sound childish.
We will never influence others in a positive way, or get them to even consider listening to other views, by insulting them.
Vinca
(51,033 posts)You can be grateful I don't use dirty adjectives every time I mention him by one of his Manbaby names.
24601
(4,013 posts)sure to work the same way again.
Response to 24601 (Reply #63)
mtnsnake This message was self-deleted by its author.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)24601
(4,013 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Okaayyy ...
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)or if I'm around little kids, I'll tone it down a notch and refer to him as Bloated Orange or The Orange Blob or something to that effect.
karynnj
(59,938 posts)People doing it should remember how they would never have listened to any point made by someone referring to Obummer, Lurch or (any of the many despicable nicknames for Clinton). I know those names would have likely caused me to spend no time reading the comments.
JustinL
(722 posts)He's a bigot, a sexual predator, and a con man. I have no respect for him, his voters, or his apologists.
Squinch
(52,738 posts)important issues! Just like you are telling others to do!
And no. A Twitler is a Twitler is a Twitler. He will always be Twitler to me.
JHan
(10,173 posts)The Right used names against Hillary to great effect, "Crooked Hillary" was sadly effective this year and we didn't have anything to counter it - DonTheCon should have been ringing from our side.
Emilybemily
(204 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)ailsagirl
(23,801 posts)Here are some more gems:
blockhead
boor
chump
dimwit
dolt
dumbbell
dunce
fool
imbecile
lout
oaf
simpleton
End Of The Road
(1,397 posts)ailsagirl
(23,801 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,162 posts)oasis
(51,703 posts)I'm compelled to refer to Trumpkin supporters as such until "the last syllable of recorded time".
ailsagirl
(23,801 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 24, 2016, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)
Which I will continue to do.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)lastlib
(24,905 posts)...and "the Democrat party"; when they stop calling Michelle Obama "monkey-face", etc....
I'll get back to ya.....
They want respect--they have to earn it.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)I couldn't possibly give less of a shit if I look "childish" and "petty" in the eyes of the sexual predator's dumbshit, despicable cult followers.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Sorry. I disagree. The broken record technique is wildly successful and I believe in giving as good as I get. I will call them EVERY NAME at EVERY TURN.
applegrove
(123,113 posts)CrispyQ
(38,244 posts)Miles Archer
(18,960 posts)I think I can count the times anyone directly referred to him as "President Bush" on one hand and have fingers left.
I understand why you say "Referring to our adversaries by their actual names won't normalize or elevate them or diminish our position. In fact, it will make it easier for us to get across our point."
But this is something new.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)and will continue to do so. He deserves much worse, but "giant, orange, festering, splattered turd" is too long to type. (With thanks to the brilliant Hamfisted, the King of Insults)
ailsagirl
(23,801 posts)It's also a means to vent our frustrations and evoke humor
I don't see that in any way being counter-productive-- we've been through a helluva lot and this helps take the edge off-- ever so slightly. How can this be a bad thing??
Bottom line: it's a catharsis
blue sky at night
(3,305 posts)even the derogatory ones....and I won't fly the stars and stripes until this is over, just like when they stole it the last time. That probably means I won't ever fly again as long as I live.
HeartachesNhangovers
(832 posts)with titles that include an intentional misspelling because that's a sure sign of a low-content post.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)we're obviously in the minority.
I wonder, though, how many of those who are so adamant about calling Trump, et al, ridiculous, juvenile names are the same ones lecturing us about how we must reach out to and coddle and - for God sakes! - not in any way offend his voters.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)thoughts and ideas are not taken seriously.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)BlueStater
(7,596 posts)Supporters of the sexual predator definitely don't fall into that category.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)upon, would you say to him: "What the fuck were you thinking when ...?"
If you did, I am, sure he wouldn't take you seriously.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)You realize people don't tend to talk in real life like how they talk on the internet, right?
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Over time, everyone shows their true colors.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)if you want to get into a debate on stupidity with the stupid, then as soon as you sink to their level they will beat you with experience.
if someone calls me a half-breed, I refuse to dignify it with a remark. I can't take someone serious who doesn't take themself serious.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... irritated the most by the ridicule usually can sympathize more with the ridiculed.
just fyi
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Adults know how to do so without making it personal or resorting to stupidity and showing their lack of command of the English language.
PS: It really doesn't irritate me, it makes me feel bad that they show their ignorance so willfully.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... what you're thinking
It sounds like you agree that the despots should be ridiculed according to human pathology of not normalizing them but its HOW its being done that you don't like
Do I have that right?
tia
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)are you saying that people are hardwired to call others they disagree with names?
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)and this isn't a matter of disagreeing, I honestly think that supposition is crazy on its face.
Trump is a direct threat to people like me and my family, he's done more than JUST proffer policy that one can disagree with.
Regards
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)I can be against everything someone stands for without being ignorant about it.
Is he the worst kind of person that could possibly win the presidency? Pretty damn close, but that doesn't mean I am going to resort to third grade taunts to win and influence future policy.
I can call Trump every name in the book, but his borderline supporters who could help us in 2020 will tune out and we can expect the same results.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... or Romney.
Benedict Donald on many fronts has directly threatened groups of people in the US based off race and religion etc.... that's different from just policy... that's against what America stands for and threatens groups of people.
He should be AB-NORMALIZED as much as possible in the most sophomoric way possible... not to legitimize his shitness.
In regards to 3rd grade taunts, ... that's a ... HOW... the ridicule is done... that, IMHO, is a matter of taste... different strokes different folks.
So the base notion that Benedict Donald SHOULD be ridiculed is something we agree with right?
tia
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Bush was just better at hiding his disdain of minorities. In many ways, that made Bush worse than Trump.
If you feel the name to name call, then don't expect many responses from intelligent people.
Besides, people who hold grudges end up dying alone and bitter,
have a good day.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... not opinion.
The FORM is in dispute here...
Not the function... do we agree?
tia
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)What exact science are you basing this on? What scientist have studied this and found scientific conclusions?
It has been my experience that people who need to justify such actions are much like the people they say they despise.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)Please post links to the studies and scientific journals. I'll be more than happy to read them.
uponit7771
(91,754 posts)... and what they shouldn't have done.
I'll find and get back
Cattledog
(6,338 posts)The biggest petty asshole won by doing exactly the opposite.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Where do we draw the line? If the end justifies the means, why stop at mere namecalling? Why not start lying shamelessly, demagoguing the worst among us, and beating up on the weakest in our society? Trump did those things and won, so why shouldn't we fight fire with fire and do it, too?
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)Seeing as I've never ripped people off or forcibly grabbed women by their groins without their consent, I'm not behaving like him.
stevebreeze
(1,882 posts)You will never ever win anyone over to your side of the discussion. We have to learn to persuade.
BlueStater
(7,596 posts)They're a lost cause.
J_William_Ryan
(2,124 posts)Particularly given the fact Republicans and conservatives are wrong on the issues.
blue cat
(2,439 posts)No, I won't stop verbally attacking trump supporters. Just got home from Christmas with my trump humping relatives. My sister insisted on talking about Hillary being involved with pediphilia. Since I had taken a Xanax before arriving, I told her that I totally agreed with her and walked off. Later I made fun of her following Alex Jones and she defended him fiercely. I give up with them. People like my family would never vote for a dem, no matter how nice you are to them. I'm tired of dems fighting with butter knives.
blue cat
(2,439 posts)I haven't seen one post by any republicans saying they need to stop taunting us. Please let us know if you find one.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Different Drummer
(8,570 posts)Personally, I'm not above name calling.
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)So I utterly reject your premise.
I will never, ever not stop calling him Drumpf.
The more we pile on, the better. The GOP has to learn to regret this calamity.
Our chief weapon is ridicule, and surprise...
Our two chief weapons are ridicule and surprise and ruthless efficiency...
Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as ridicule, surprise, ruthless efficiency, blah blah blah.
Now if we only do it.
Bring on...
THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!!
DUNNNNNNN!
A little levity helps, too. We'll all need it.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)powerful person on earth.
He's not a joke and shouldn't be treated as one.
longship
(40,416 posts)Sheesh!
Rex
(65,616 posts)I give this thread 3 lulz.
Cha
(305,400 posts)to be called out anyway anybody feels like it.
3catwoman3
(25,436 posts)...in a pediatric office, and, appropriately so, must be on my best behavior 100% of the time. Not all that much of a challenge, as I am, by nature (and upbringing) very quiet and reserved. This is no doubt true of many here at DU.
I most definitely need a safe haven like DU where I can come and "let fly" thoughts and feelings that would not be consederd appropriate in every day real life.
It is a sorely needed pressure release valve and I intend to take full advantage of it.
coolbreeze77
(35 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)nt