I don't understand how some of the most religious people I know voted for Trump.

[complain jane]

I can't get my head around this entire election but three very religious (Christian) people that I know told me they could not in good conscience vote for Hillary and they couldn't give me a concrete answer as to why. Nor could they give me a concrete answer as to why they thought Trump was a good choice.

One of them, after the election, said that their pastor sent a letter to his congregation telling them that if they voted for Trump, they voted against their Christian faith, and he told me that he may leave his church over this.

Not for the obvious reason - that a religious figure should not be involved in politics - but because the pastor was coming out against the guy he voted for.

How the fuck is this even happening? A thrice married, serial cheating, misogynistic, sexist, greedy pig can appeal to someone of religious conviction over a woman who held her marriage and family together and maintained a foundation that helped the lives of others?

This election has caused me to reexamine my faith in the Democratic process and the Christians that I know.

[CountAllVotes]

1. These sorts are not truly "religious"

If they were they'd have nothing to do with this creep of a man. He is a disgrace!

Write them off and stay the hell away from them.

That is what I am doing.

These faux hypocrites of the worst sort aren't worth my time nor effort!

[complain jane]

3. But it bugs me like crazy that I don't have answers.

And maybe I never will. But out of all the things in the world that I don't have answers to, this drives me crazy. It's like Upside Down World.

[stopbush]

29. Wrong. They are very religious and extremely Xian.

Can we please STOP with the "not a real Xian" bullshit? The only good principle to come out of that sorry religion is its version of the Golden Rule, a principle that had been around for centuries before Jesus supposedly showed up.

The rest of Jesus' ministry is the same old patriarchal, misogynistic, bigoted crap we see in just about every other religion man has devised for himself over the centuries. Read the actual words of the supposed Jesus. He's a loathsome, megalomaniacal figure who was known to resort to violence to make his point.

This idea that Xians who adhere to a worldview that is informed by Enlightenment principles that are nowhere to be found in the Buy-bull are somehow "real Xians," while those who toe the line when it comes to what the Buy-bull *actually* says between its rancid covers are not "real Xians" is absolute bullshit that we should reject for being the lie it obviously is.

[Earthican]

38. Thank you

When can we bury the lie that people who at least outwardly profess to believe fairy tales are more moral than those who do not? Quite the opposite really.

[Grey Lemercier]

39. this!!!!

Thank you, thank you. One of the major blocks to America evolving to a more humane, scienced-based, tolerant, enlightened nation is religion, all religion, especially the cult of jeebus. Amazing that so many people who rightly call woo on shit like homeopathy and anti-vaxxers somehow still cling to the bighest woo ever, religion. Xians, especially in fundie form, are the 800 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to un-clusterfucking the US.

[Dulcinea]

30. It's not about religion.

It's about power. White Evangelicals are used to being the dominant culture. Hence, the faux "War on Christmas." There's no such thing, but they spread this drivel because they don't want to acknowledge that not everyone believes as they do, & if they don't, they need to be marginalized. Since they can't legally discriminate on the basis of religious belief, they resort to this kind of thing.

[True_Blue]

37. So true

They complain about political correctness, but blow a gasket if you tell them Happy Holidays.

[msongs]

2. because he reflects those people's true family values like lie cheat steal etc nt

[complain jane]

4. For the one guy, I think he can't handle a woman in charge.

He's a hypocrite in that he cheats on his wife.

But - he's a decent person in other areas of his life. Charitable, spends his time volunteering, works with handicapped people.

I guess for that one it's just a problem with women.

[TheFrenchRazor]

34. very true. nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. Here's the problem.

"Religious" can mean very many different things.

I'll state right here that although I was raised Roman Catholic, I long ago left the Church, and I retain a strong antipathy to all who claim religious foundation for how they behave or what they believe.

But here's the real problem: conventional religion tells its adherents that they really shouldn't think for themselves, that they must simply acquiesce to the teachings of their sect. Not to worry. We have the answers. So they say.

Even the most liberal and encompassing of religions ultimately come down to this. Which is why I personally have a huge problem with all organized religions. Okay, so I might go along with 90%, maybe even 95% or what this specific religion teaches. But what about that other 10 or 15%? Should I just shove it aside? Should I allow it to poison my belief in the rest?

For me, personally, (and I cannot stress the personally too much because you may honestly feel somewhat differently) I am not willing to go along with the 90 or 95%. Because to me the 5 or 10% difference really matters.

I want to think for myself. I want to come to my own conclusions If there are those out there who think like me, then GREAT! I want to connect to you. But for you who only disagree with me 5 or 10 or even 20%, I don't think we have all that much difference. Can we talk about it? Can each of us say, I'm okay with our differences? I certainly hope so.

But most organized religions are far more rigid than this. They say: Believe this way.

No if's and's or but's. It's believe, buy into the entire thing or get out. And that's where I depart from conventional religion.

And more to the point of the OP, those religious people are incredibly selective about what matters to them. Just as most religious people are about which parts of the Bible to honor. So, fuck them. I have no use for such hypocrisy.

And as a minor aside, I've had fundamentalist friends absolutely astonished to discover that I, an avowed non-religious person, have moral standards of any kind. Or that I hold to a genuinely higher standard than most people they know. Fuck them.

[complain jane]

6. Thank you for this.

I'm with you. I'm skeptical of any entity that says it has all the answers, i.e. organized religion.

I just can't figure out what part of Trump would appeal to anyone who considers themselves a person of the Christian faith.

Like, seriously - what? What is there to even select?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

7. I appreciate your support.

While I am someone who is usually antipathetic to religion, one of my closest friends is a woman of sincere religious belief.

Not that it should matter, but she attends a Presbyterian church in our city, and I've more than once attended services with her. While I am not at all likely to become a convert, through her I've come to appreciate that particular brand of Christianity. But more to the point, I've come to understand that she is a woman of very strong religious belief, although she NEVER makes any sort of attempt to inflict her belief on others.

Because we are friends, I often spend time in her home, and I've frequently minded her cat while she is out of town. And so I've had the opportunity to see what books she has on her shelves. Some of them are very specifically attuned to her beliefs.

I want to emphasize that she has NEVER attempted to proselytize or convince me I should believe any differently from what I do, and I'm completely blown away by that. Especially as over time I've come to understand her strong faith.

And this, to me, is as it should be. If you believe something, then believe it. And act within and because of that belief. How you live should be the testament to your faith. Nothing else is needed.

And for what it is worth, in early 2001 I visited Australia, and spent some time with some locals there. One of the women I met was someone who in the U.S. would be a fundamentalist Christian, which is, as you probably already can guess, is not exactly my favorite brand of believer. But what impressed me enormously was that while she expressed her firm and strong faith, it was without any sort of attempt to convert me, or indicate that I (a non believer) was in any way inferior. I was blown away by both her faith and her lack of any sort of attempt to change my own beliefs. It made me far, far more respectful of her own beliefs.

I think the essential problem in our country is that too many people, especially those who fall under the "fundamentalist" category, seem to think they must convert all of the rest of us. If they would only spend their time living their beliefs, showing us that their way of live and beliefs are good and worth emulating, they would get vastly more respect, and perhaps many more converts, than they do by acting as if the rest of us are scum. Sigh.

[JI7]

8. being religious doesn't make someone a good person. religious people can be evil

hateful , horrible people.

[lunasun]

17. Yes just pick up a history book

[Willie Pep]

9. For some people it is because they are single-issue voters.

For example, people who vote solely on overturning Roe v. Wade. For others they have come to see the Democrats as representing everything evil about America. Sexual promiscuity, vulgar language, homosexuality being normalized.

Clearly these people don't do nuance very well. For example, not seeing being pro-life as a wider issue. I am Catholic and I vote for the Democrats because I think their economic positions would do more to help people start families and raise children. I am pro-life across the board (I am opposed to the death penalty, unnecessary wars, euthanasia, etc) and I think that it is impossible to be fully pro-life unless you are prepared to help the weakest among us. It is not good enough just to oppose Roe. But if you support something like what I mentioned above, the consistent life ethic, conservatives will attack you and say that you are selling out The Babies.

The Religious Right uses the unborn as a shield to protect other parts of the right-wing agenda that are not compatible with a consistent ethic of life. Unfortunately, so many Christians are conditioned to see anything deviating from the movement conservative agenda as "selling out" so people like me get dumped on and called traitors. .

[TexasProgresive]

11. Ah! I see a fellow traveler clothed in the seamless garment of life, welcome.

https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/soul-seeing/cardinal-bernardin's-gift-fits-all-sizes

Cardinal Bernardin's gift fits all sizes
When Cardinal Joseph Bernardin died of cancer on Nov. 14, 1996, Chicagoans responded like they did when they heard of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's death. The announcement brought the city of broad shoulders to its knees. The Tribune quoted the cardinal as saying he faced death with peace and that it was a gift from God.

Not only Chicagoans but Catholics everywhere remember Bernardin for teaching us how to die with dignity. Few remember how he taught a whole world to live with dignity through his Catholic vision, the seamless garment of life. Isn't it interesting? The sanctity of life is less memorable than the experience of death.

Bernardin's gift to the world is not a moment in time. It is an eternal teaching to see the world with the eyes of the soul.

The seamless garment of life is a metaphor for the reality that all of us share one life in God. It is not a tenet but an understanding that all of life is sacred, from womb to tomb, in the unborn and the dying, in the murderer on death row and the mother in a coma, in the soldier in Afghanistan and the family in Iraq, in the undernourished child and the pensioner who can't afford a doctor. "When human life is considered 'cheap' or easily expendable in one area," Bernardin said, "eventually nothing is held as sacred and all lives are in jeopardy."

[Willie Pep]

31. Thanks for the link!

Nice to see others that share a belief in the Seamless Garment of Life. I think there are more of us than people realize.

[get the red out]

10. Choice, hey rights, women's rights

[SDJay]

12. This Is What Happens When Church and State Merge

Freedom of religion means that there are some pretty screwed up religions out there that teach pretty fucked up things in terms of so-called values. Now we see them directly applied to what is supposed to be democracy.

Misogyny, racism, the hatred of poor people, xenophobia... you know, all those things that Jesus taught in the bible. Wait, what? Oh yeah, nevermind. Republican Jesus was a great Murcan. He was so great that his message is actually the opposite of what billions of people have read over the centuries. His message can only be told by rich 'pastors' stealing from rubes.

I digress, but the point is these 'Christians' voted for Trump because they are sexist assholes. I'm not talking about your friends, but folks in general. They just 'endured' - and they probably compared themselves to the Jews spending 40 years in the desert - a black guy as POTUS. Do you think for one second that Republican Jesus would stand for a woman following him?

Forget about the fact that Drumpf is a fucking scumbag on every level - we can redeem him, fellow fans of Republican Jesus! And if not, we'll just pretend these things about him don't exist - it's not as if we're not used to creating our own reality - we've been doing that our whole lives!

[Lars39]

13. They didn't vote for Trump, they voted for Pence.

[Frustratedlady]

14. I'm walking right beside you in disbelief.

No matter how I try to justify their thoughts and actions, they are totally divorced from my own. I grew up a Methodist...kind of a laid back, live and let live type teaching and never had any problem with it until the Bush and Trump elections. Looking back, Bush was a saint, but this one is beyond my comprehension. I'm watching old friends and relatives change their values right before my eyes.

I know that part of the problem was that the Christians I know who supported Trump read/follow the likes of Drudge, Beck, Hannity, Breitbart and Rush. I watched as family members tried to explain how wrong they were, but they wouldn't budge. They have been programmed for the last 16 years via Republican lies and propaganda. This process has been like a second religion for them and they believe they are on the right track. Even though these people are intelligent, they can no longer think for themselves...they have to be told how to think and act. I've never seen anything like it in my nearly 80 years on earth.

I regret that I have lost friends over this election. It isn't because they voted for someone I did not vote for, it is because they voted for someone I knew was bad for the country and the world. Why couldn't they see this? Unfortunately, some day they will, but it will be too late.

Think for yourself, damn it! Why would you take the word of Drudge, Beck, Hannity, Breitbart and Rush vs. the advice of a long time friend who has only your interests in mind? Republicans aren't members of a party, they are members of a cult. My parents were always Republican, but they would be shocked to see what that party/cult is today.

May God protect us from ourselves.

[lunasun]

18. They may never see it . All those talking heads will give them scapegoats and more excuses . They

and their words are not done and will not stay silent now, if anything be broadcast to farther reaches IMO

[AllenJordan]

15. Probablybecause his prolifestance?

[NCTraveler]

27. His politically expedient change to anti-choice. nt.

[Ace Rothstein]

16. A lot of religious people are single issue voters.

The single issue? Abortion.

[el_bryanto]

19. I agree with what a lot of other people have said, particularly about Single Issue Voting and

Abortion. There is one additional factor though I think. Conservatives these days paint themselves as the persecuted minority, and no more so than in the religious conservatism. I see that in members of my own faith and it drives me nuts, but they will point to the scriptures and argue that we know that in the last days that Christians will be persecuted.

Since they believe that they are going to be persecuted, any sort of disagreement or opposition is treated as persecution. You can place this within the larger context that despite having the bulk of political power in the United States White Male Conservatives believe themselves to be persecuted, and when you through religion on to that pile that's just one more thing to feel persecuted over.

It also allows them to mythologize supposed attacks on them; rather than simple disagreements or different points of views, statements by those outside the tribe are attacks and persecution. Instead of seeing themselves as comfortable middle class people without any real worries who are fighting to make sure they don't lose any of their pie, they are heroic defenders of christian values who are heroically standing up to societal persecution.

Bryant

[atreides1]

28. I'm old fashioned

To me persecuted means being nailed to a tree and set on fire!

[NewJeffCT]

20. He promised to appoint judges like Scalia

to the Supreme Court. That's enough for many of them.

[dawg]

21. I'm a Christian myself.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church, so I think that technically makes me an evangelical too.

I have always tried to apply the teachings of my church to myself. Seeing the fault and sinfulness in myself inspires me to strive to be a better person. It also serves to make me more forgiving and less judgmental of others. Jesus said not to worry about the mote in someone else's eye when you've got a plank in your own. I get that.

But some people get something totally different from church. Instead of being convicted of their own shortcomings, they get a feeling of superiority from hearing about other people's shortcomings. They are happy to cast the first stone, because they (falsely) believe themselves to be blameless. (Or at the very least, much less sinful than those *other* people.)

In the end, it comes down to the authoritarian personality type. These people aren't made that way by the church. They certainly aren't made that way by the teachings of Christ (which are actually anathema to many of them, they just aren't thoughtful enough to realize it).

But authoritarians *are* attracted to the church. It's another way of feeling superior.

Sadly, authoritarian church members have been pretty successful at driving non-authoritarian Christians out of leadership positions and in many cases out of the church itself. I see this as a problem not only for the country, but for the church as well. They are destroying the ministry of the church more successfully than any oppressive secular government ever could.

[YoungDemCA]

22. Two words: Political power.

Just take a look at the 1980 presidential election.



One of these men is a white evangelical Protestant. The other won the votes of white evangelical Protestants. Guess which party each belonged to.

[LaydeeBug]

23. Let them know the number of abortions is getting ready to climb

as they always do when there is a Republican president in office.

[OriginalGeek]

24. I was told by a religious nut-job I know

(I mean, Alex Jones, Conspiracy theory believing, these are the end times, apocalypse and Jesus' return will happen in our lifetime nut job) that Hillary is evil. He completely believes it. He loves Trump. For now. Haven't talked to him since Trump started backpedaling on lock her up talk.


But whatever he thinks of Trump's indiscretions (and I am pretty sure he is of the "Men can do what they want" camp since women are supposed to be subservient to men) it doesn't matter as Hillary is evil and that trumps philandering and lying.

[dmosh42]

25. From all the religous people I have known, most become the "One-issue" type, with abortions being...

the big factor. If Stalin or Hitler were alive and ran for office, as long as they outlawed abortions, they would have their vote. Most were also pretty hateful types, with phony smiles, always good Christians,
at least in their eyes. Needless to say, but never on my 'good friends list'.

[NCTraveler]

26. It is one of my biggest issues with the support he received.

How they went to the polls and voted for a man who represented more of an anti-Christ figure for his whole adult life.

I have stopped going to church since the election. I will practice my faith outside of the white entitled comfort zone they are hiding behind. They talk bullshit about us and safe places. What a bunch of sorry fucking hypocrites.

[karynnj]

32. I would suggest that it could be abortion and/or gay marriage

It is often cultural -- or in some cases, they were on the Republican "team".

What the pastor did was - even though it was for our side - illegal if they are a tax exempt religious organizations. This is not even close to the line.

[Orsino]

33. Phallocentric religions are like that.

A women with documented decades of Christian activism is tossed aside for a man who once did a photo op in a pew, but who openly disdains the idea of asking forgiveness.

[Rex]

35. Obviously Trump is Satan and has fooled them into voting for him, hence their confusion.

Would God confuse them like that? Merry Christmas!

[QC]

36. For many of these people, being Christian is more a tribal identity thing

than any kind of moral/spiritual conviction.

They are Christian in the same way that they are, say, Ohio State fans, Ford truck enthusiasts, or whatever.

I think this is especially true of evangelicals, who lately tend not to know much about theology and such: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/october-web-only/new-poll-finds-evangelicals-favorite-heresies.html

[Grey Lemercier]

40. Tribalism is one of the most corrosive forces on the planet.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

41. According to exit poll percentages, it's the white evangelicals who gave Trump...

... a majority among all white voters.

Take them away, and Clinton would've won the white vote too!

[RonniePudding]

42. Answer: Because they are hypocrites

Like most people who are into religion.