2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumZephyr Teachout lost in NY-19
I haven't seen any/many articles on this? Does anyone have any opinions?
I live in the district and voted for Will Yandic in the primary and for Zephyr Teachout in the general.
I also volunteered for Zephyr's campaign after she won the primary.
Any thoughts?
BeyondGeography
(40,003 posts)and negative ads. The last two weeks were pretty brutal.
It's a winnable but tough district, as you know. The last D (Scott Murphy) was a centrist. Chris Gibson was popular and seen as a reasonable Republican. Faso ran with that and it worked. Teachout's roots in area weren't deep and that hurt, too.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)How do you think is winnable? What would have helped ZT?
BeyondGeography
(40,003 posts)I think a lot of D's went with Teachout because she was more prolific on the money side, but the carpetbagger meme led a lot of people to tune her out. Be interesting to see how the new DNC looks at it. The district will remain competitive, IMO, especially with Trump to run against.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)I am not sure just why we got wiped out across the country. I do have my suspicions.
Here, we had a brutal primary that hurt our candidate, who would normally be considered seasoned and a great replacement for our current scumbag in Congress. Didn't work, though.
It could be the primary process that's a large part of the problem. The idea is to trash your opponent, and that carries over into the general. And supporters of the loser tend not to be so chummy with the winners, taking their sour grapes and staying home or otherwise causing trouble.
I'm tempted to put a lot of blame on Bernistas, but more blame should probably be put on the process, and our inability to pull together for the general election.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)JudyM
(29,517 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)JudyM
(29,517 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And never really stopped trashing Dems. If you cant understand why that would piss off people I can't help you. But it never should happen again.
sheshe2
(87,309 posts)You are awesome.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)People being upset about this behavior? SMH do they think we forgot how rude and punitive and damaging all that crap was? Nope. never again. At a certain point we deserve unity- and need loyal candidates.
sheshe2
(87,309 posts)Nodding in agreement.
Reading DU today, all I see is Dem bashing.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hey are you watching SNL? Baldwin has been trolling Trump about it- 16 minutes. I started a thread for it! HA
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)As they point at you lecturing, they refuse to look at their own fingers pointing back at themselves.
They were correct on who the loser was. They often take that in itself as a hit even though factual.
Cha
(305,201 posts)Tanuki
(15,302 posts)a couple of other right wing extremist billionaires, who (thanks to Citizens United) were able to flood her opponent with cash. You might find this post-mortem if her campaign intetesting:
https://www.google.com/amp/www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/zephyr-teachouts-loss-and-the-fight-against-dark-money/amp?client=ms-android-att-us
andym
(5,676 posts)they probably are sending xmas cards to the Supreme Court just for that decision.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)it was pretty equal.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)So, while she lost, it's not as though her campaign was an unqualified disaster.
I don't see how Yandic would have done any better. Or how anyone further to the right than either of them would have.
(Thank you for working for Zephyr in the fall, though).
oberliner
(58,724 posts)She lost by almost double that.
Response to Madam45for2923 (Original post)
Ken Burch This message was self-deleted by its author.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Back for another round?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Andrew Cuomo is simply a man. It's not an attack on the Democratic Party to question his choices.
The guy spent years refusing to try to help his party win a majority in the NY State Senate-just because he thought that if the Senate stayed Republican he'd get his budgets passed "on time" whatever that means). So why would you feel any loyalty to HIM?
We don't have to refrain from saying ANYTHING critical of anyone who happens to be a Democratic public figure to prove our party loyalty.
I've spent years proving I'm a loyal Dem. Pretending that all Democratic public figures are infallible is NOT part of loyalty.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)You engage in baseless speculation about her failure by stabbing another Dem in the back? Not the first time weve seen you make up scenarios about Dems. And then you post shit about unity. What a crock of shit.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Cuomo has a history with Teachout, and has a history of NOT helping other Dems in his state.
I'm not attacking "Democrats" as a group or as a party.
What do you want us all to do? Pretend our party is infallible? Attack the Rights(which we all do anyway)and do nothing ELSE?
Why should we not campaign by making a positive case for OUR program, by trying to win the argument and win the voters to a program of progressive change, rather than JUST campaign AGAINST our opponents? It's not like "Stop Them-They're Monsters" campaigning ever gets us elected.
I think we stand for good things, that our ideas are actually popular, and that we can win by running positive campaigns about what we have to offer.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Posts like that are part of the problem. More baseless accusations- I'd have thought you got that out of your system earlier this year. And you want people to trust you? not happening.
Cha
(305,201 posts)sheshe2
(87,309 posts)I think we need a new video game. 'Bash a Dem'
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Are you saying we shouldn't question or debate ANYTHING here?
That we should pretend politicians in our party are infallible?
What is the harm of having honest conversations about what we should do next?
And in any case, the 2016 election is over...we don't seem to be in the fall rules anymore and there's no reason that we should be.
sheshe2
(87,309 posts)When it only bashes Dems is not honest. It is all over the board. All I see is bashing Dems. That is all.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)All spring. He supported her on the record. They have a history as rivals and didn't love each other- a very very common scenario among politicians. This does not mean we should engage in childish and harmful accusations of skull duggery.
This is the whole fucking problem w some of the more rabid Sanders supporters, everyone not onboard is the enemy and it's accepted practice to exaggerate and even make up stories about them and put them out there.
It's poisonous and dishonest and this shit needs to end.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Allegation against a democratic public figure.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Wing of the party. They don't seem to appreciate that some areas of the country are more conservative, or that politicians make alliances between themselves and with groups to HELP each other.
It's all of their three pet issues and love for Sanders that matters, and nothing else. The way they've pushed pols that were against reproductive rights months earlier is really really disturbing to me.
As long as someone comes out of no where and pledges allegiance to the Bern they're A-ok, but people who have worked hard for years are nothing to them. Sanders isn't running again, he's not a Dem, but this bullshit attitude of not needing to do the work or be part of a coalition continues. It's childish and punitive to make up stories about politicians like he did above. And he wonders why his kumbya threads get the side eye. Because he's trying to use us to advance his agenda. Fuck that.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It amazes me that people who hate easily 90% Of existing Dems think others are being divisive. Seriously people?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)it wouldn't have mattered. Trump did too well in the district for her to win and she had no cross over appeal.
mvd
(65,437 posts)I hope she tries again, because she is the kind of progressive we need more of.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And of course John Hall won in 2008.
mvd
(65,437 posts)Still hope she tries again because she is what the future of the party should be. It wasn't the best year for our candidates in general. 2012 had President Obama.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Having high profile support from Bernie and everything.
People talk about the general election, but there were some very distressing losses on the Congressional front as well.
mvd
(65,437 posts)the Senate pickups (which we thought would be more) and the NC Governor's race (which the Repukes in typical fashion are trying to weaken), but we need to do much better in 2020. If Trump is not there, Pence will be, and the country can't take more of them. I even worry if we can survive 4 years ok.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Lots of Democrats with not particularly stable seats up for re-election. Fewer Republicans defending seats.
Does not bode well.
mvd
(65,437 posts)And hopefully some of his voters will realize their mistake. We do have an uphill battle in the next Senate races.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 17, 2016, 11:52 PM - Edit history (1)
There wasn't anyone there who'd vote for a Dem, but ONLY if that Dem made a big thing of saying she or he wasn't a liberal.
John Hall was clearly a left-Dem when HE held the seat.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The problem with ZT might have been that she was not actually from the area.
BeyondGeography
(40,003 posts)The carpetbagger charge hurt, and labeling her "Professor" seems to have helped Faso. Yeah, it's stupid, but it is what it is. She got less mileage out of ripping Faso's lobbying ties, banks and Wall St. than he and his backers did painting her as an out-of-touch elitist and lying about her tax plan.
CBHagman
(17,134 posts)...in six of the last eight races, I thought that expectations of a Teachout win were too high.
[url]https://ballotpedia.org/New_York%27s_19th_Congressional_District[/url]
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)come out in force like they did this year we'll you get this result. It takes a strong Democratic year for our side to win that district and it wasn't that year.
My sense is she will try again in the midterms in the hopes it will be a good Democratic year. Whether she gets nominated again I don't know.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)I know KG's old district has since been cut up in redistricting, but wouldn't it be the most similar?
I know Nan Hayworth defeated John Hall in the old 19th and then she was defeated by Sean Patrick Maloney (IIRC he still holds the seat). I grew up just outside of that district (Nita Lowey-- then 18th now 17th).
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I was mistaking this for Sean's district.
Not at all surprised she lost this district. Not a liberal bastion.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)She did buy a house in NY-19 before running here.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Than again so many of them are useless and keep on getting re-elected.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)any Democrat could have won there.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)But I know a little about the district as my sister lives not far from there (and drove through there for Thanksgiving). I also went there a lot as a child (non voter then).
Honest question--- her name is not exactly conventional and from an outsider's POV it sounds like a hippie name or one of those strange names a celebrity would name their child. Do you think she would have done better if her name were Mary Smith?
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)The 19th was not the right district.
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)Who do you think would've been a good candidate for NY-19? Will Yandik? I did vote for him in the primary.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)But she being in Bernie's camp would have had a bruising primary against the machine in those areas.
I don't really know who would have been a winning candidate for NY-19 this election, Trump brought out his vote in upstate New York.