Obamacare: how much was it to blame for the loss?

[realmirage]

Edit: link fixed. It points to intended article now

Half of my family and friends are without health insurance because they can't afford it. I am also in that boat. This means not only do I live with the stress of my wife and I not being insured, I will then have to pay a penalty I can't afford either. I work a decent job but after the bills are paid there isn't enough left for insurance.

I saw some lefty friends on Facebook, who can't afford insurance, the week after Trump's win wondering desperately whether Trump will remove the penalty.

I wonder how many people who voted Trump did so partly due to being in the same situation I and my friends are in?

I don't claim to know a solution to this other than single payer, and that's not happening any time soon. I wonder for how many people the premium hikes and penalties combined with other economic concerns and swayed them to Trump.

I know that I am personally frustrated with the economy as are many others, and as much as I hear reports about the improving state of the economy I'm not seeing it personally. If this is my experience as a professional with a job, there must be tons of people out there just like me. It's fine for people to say that the hikes are a natural part of the progression and that at some undefined point in the future Obamacare will be working great. But I am one financial emergency away from ruin, and none of that "be patient" shit helps me now.

Were Democrats too chickenshit to fight for single payer? Regardless, obamacare is on the left's shoulders and I wonder how much we paid for that on Nov 8

The Democratic Party needs to be the party of the working class again, all colors. A party with balls to fight. Otherwise who will vote for Denocratic candidates? People vote survival first, everything else second.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/11/10/congress-and-president-elect-trump-capitol-hill-sen-al-franken-lead-tapper-intv.cnn

[DanTex]

1. Hmm. Bashing Obamacare and posting a link to right-wing website.

[realmirage]

3. I didn't read the article, just found

the Franken tweet. But go ahead and try and paint me as some sort of nut

[tammywammy]

4. Shocking.

Not really.

[realmirage]

6. Link fixed for the paranoid out there

[realmirage]

8. And you read that as bashing?

This is the tone deaf shit on the economy that just cost us the rust belt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. It's really not. Those in the rust belt who prioritized

The economy voted for her, those who prioritized terrorism and illegal immigration voted for him.

[realmirage]

15. And lower turnout is blamed on?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. Many things including voter suppression

Also false equivalence on the left, comey, fake news etc.

People who prioritized economic concerns voted for her.

[realmirage]

19. I know you read that in an article

but many early studies have shown that democrats are losing their image of representing the middle class. How do you expand the base without it? And either way, it's besides the main point of the OP.

[enid602]

58. tRump

tRump won much of the middle class because he's a con man. He's already acknowledged that he will get rid of Obamacare, and on 11/30 he said on TV that he will begin phasing out Medicare this Spring. How can he do this? Because all branches of Government are in Republican control. tRump said he was going to look after the little man. He's perhaps the best con man that America has ever produced. Incredible talent.

[MyNameIsKhan]

9. Maybe right wing site but truth is we have lost two mid terms and on general ...

And the law will be dismantled in few months... Yes we improved 20 mil peoples lives.. but they are now in limbo... no real solution ... and individual mandate was the sticking point... I know we cannot get private insurance to cover preexisting conditions without having healthy people in pool... in hind sight single payer would have survived this ...

[DanTex]

21. Single payer would never have made it through congress.

[MyNameIsKhan]

25. Yes but a single payer drafted with some bi partisan support and that involves private insurance

very similar to Germany would have survived all this and would have been law of this land for next 50 years atleast...

Whether Repubs sensed the opportunity or Dems messed, ACA let us loose governer-ships in 2010 and that led to gerrymandering and with permanent House for a decade... the way it looks the decade of 2020 is safe for them as well unless demographic shifts.

[DanTex]

27. There is no bipartisan support for single payer. And there never was.

Not only does the GOP not want Medicare for all, they want to get rid of Medicare entirely. It's a fantasy to think that somehow they would jump on board with what would literally be a government takeover of the health insurance industry (which is what they falsely called Obamacare).

Also, there's no such thing as single payer that involves private insurance. Single payer means the government is the insurer. Germany doesn't have single payer, it has an individual mandate, like Obamacare.

[MyNameIsKhan]

36. I can update my post to Universal health care where there is basic insurance for everyone

ER and etc that can be figured out by policy wonks, further there is private insurance for people who can afford it...

The contribution in germany for basic healthcare is very minimal and works with govt funding directly to insurance companies rather than helping in individual premiums, this is where we messed up.

[DanTex]

41. Universal healthcare, yes. That was the point of Obamacare. It just came up short.

There are multiple ways of getting there, single payer being just one. Another way, like Germany, is with an individual mandate.

Which means that Obama did exactly what you suggested: find a way to get universal coverage that also includes insurance companies. But even with that, he got zero Republican support. And because of two or three conservative Dems, we couldn't even get a public option.

Then the Supreme Court weakened Obamacare further, and GOP governors refused to implement exchanges or expand Medicaid. Obamacare worked much better in states where the state government wasn't trying to sabotage it to the detriment of their own citizens.

But despite all that, it still managed to expand coverage by 20 million and reduce the growth of health care costs.

You're right, there are a lot of ways it could be improved. But none of them are things that the GOP would go for. Sure, having the government pay premiums directly instead of subsidizing citizens would mean that out-of-pocket premium expenses would be lower, but then taxes would be higher by that same amount. Do you really think the GOP would sign on for a tax increase of that size?

And even politically, it's questionable whether people would rather pay the money to the government rather than directly to the insurance companies. Maybe they would, I don't know, it's a matter of perception.

[DanTex]

33. It was originally a link to twitchy.

[putitinD]

2. single payer is the ONLY solution.

[JI7]

5. single payer got rejected in colorado

By a huge amount.

[MyNameIsKhan]

26. single payer without private insurance inclusion will not pass... we need germany model of insurance

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. What state are you in? Also how would this get passed

When we couldn't get the public option passed?

[realmirage]

10. I'm in the southwest

And I didn't say I had a solution. I said that either way I can't afford insurance and I have to pay a penalty on top of that. What does someone say to a person in my position?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. So did you governor refuse to expand Medicaid?

[realmirage]

12. I make too much

to qualify for Medicaid, but too little to buy insurance

[trixie2]

14. That's bs

I currently pay $42 a month for healthcare using the affordable care act. They keep telling me I can qualify for medicaid but I don't want to go that route.

Link to information

[realmirage]

18. BS huh?

I make 34k, retirement takes a huge slice, rent, 2 car payments now that our old cars both died (replaced by more used cars), Internet, credit card bill from the last financial emergency, electricity, water, gas, car gasoline, food, 2 cell phone service payments... I can't afford cable TV and we haven't gone anywhere because we can't afford it.

The fact that you call this BS is exactly what's wrong with our party's message. This is exactly how we're going to continue to fail to reach rural voters and the blue dog democrats

[trixie2]

23. I honestly don't think you even filled out an application

I have helped so many people to sit down, fill out the application and then observe when they get many, many options at different price levels and gasp, "I had no idea it was this easy and so many choices". I don't have the best coverage but I like the coverage I do have and it beat the coverage provided by my employer.

The tip off is when did not say anything about the many, many options. Nor have you attempted to discuss the questions on the application such as who can and can't work, children, health issues etc.

Still calling bs.

By the way, cable tv is so last decade. If you have the internet you can get the programs you want for peanuts.

[realmirage]

24. My employer insurance is

almost 400 a month for 2 people. Obamacare is about 250 for my wife and I, if I remember right. I can't afford that. But keep on with the insults, it's a winning strategy

[trixie2]

29. Awesome you brought that up

So the Affordable Care Act (correct term by the way) beats your employers? And you want a Trump option? You just answered your own question.

I have a feeling your credit card debt is very high and your car loans are high because you don't have a high credit rating.

Take my advice - go to a credit union and sit down with them and consolidate your debt and then cut up all credit cards except for one. Once you consolidate it will stop the debt from growing and the institution will take a cut but they will be upfront about it and will make a payment you are comfortable with. I don't know about the car loans though. You don't have titles to them.

[realmirage]

35. Lol you guys don't get it

My credit rating is high and I have two car loans through my credit union. My car is worth about 4k and it currently has no heat. But I pay payments on it. Are people really this unaware of what it's like for lower middle class people like me?

[trixie2]

42. You can't be serious

I am near poverty. I had great training on budgets and money handling. I haven't had a new winter coat in 7 years but I know how to care for it so it lasts. I lease a car because having an old car and if you add up the cost to maintain or get it running is too high. I set my budget for the lease I can afford. If I buy clothes I buy basic pieces that will last long and will stay classic. I don't buy trends. Call me crazy but I think healthcare is important. You may be young and therefor don't need healthcare and this is why you are so against it. You will one day, believe me. In our family we won't bless the marriage of a young person unless both have jobs, no debt and healthcare. You don't have those then we talk you out of marriage until you meet the criteria.

[realmirage]

45. You are probably

in a lower income bracket than I am so you get more subsidies.

And by the way we live in a one bedroom apartment in a normal part of town.

[trixie2]

57. hate to break it to you

$34k a year for two people is just above the poverty line. If you ever did "really" apply you would find you can take as many or as little credits you qualify for. This is why I think you have never actually applied.

[realmirage]

46. Against it? I would love to have it

It stresses me out not having it. I have a couple physical issues that I wish I could have a doctor look at, but I can't. I know you think no one could possibly be in my situation but I am telling you that people I know are also in this situation. I wish you were right and that I could could afford insurance and one that didn't have such high deductibles, but I can't. That's why I wrote the OP. It sucks and there's no solution for people like me. But I still vote Democrat.

[realmirage]

37. Let me also point out

that my employer insurance is good with decent deductibles, unlike the 250 dollar Obamacare plan that would force me to pay deductibles I couldn't afford either

[trixie2]

44. So exactly which plans have you looked at?

How many options per plan was there? Did you opt for ER care or not? Did you pick 6 prescriptions or 15? How many dr visits did you select? Was it with our without dental or optical care? Each plan allows you to pick your own deductibles just like car insurance.

This is why I call bs. You are just ranting without any suggestion of knowledge of applying.

[realmirage]

48. I'll look into it again

and if you're right, that I can find the same insurance my employer offers at a price I can afford I'll not only come back and correct myself, I'll thank you. But last time I checked it wasn't possible.

[trixie2]

50. obviously you can't find the exact same insurance

You just said it was too expensive. What games are you playing?

[realmirage]

53. The game of trying

to find insurance that doesn't have deductibles I can't afford, at a premium I can afford

[fleabiscuit]

59. I believe that's called 'whipping a dead horse.'

Welcome to DU.

[TheFrenchRazor]

61. $250 for 2 people is a whole lot better than what you'd get without obamacare. nt

[TubbersUK]

17. K & R n/t

[ismnotwasm]

20. There are almost 2 million newly insured in Washington state alone

Some of them for the first time. Ever. People Going without insurance costs the healthcare Industry millions of dollars in ED visit alone. That being said--there are some distinct and serious financial problems with the ACA--I've never found it helpful to refer to it as "Obamacare" BTW--, we were hoping on being able to get to address those problems under a Democratic presidency, and open the door to single payer, and ultimately universal Healthcare. We can kiss that goodbye.

[realmirage]

22. And how does that

help people in my situation, of which there are probably many?

[ismnotwasm]

47. It doesn't

I'm just pointing out that while flawed, the ACA helped millions of people. Went I went to my Nursing association convention, nursing leaders were very aware of both the benefits and the flaws of the ACA--which by the way, is not the only thing changing in government reimbursement for Medicare, among other issues--a number of things are going on. It was a template in a way, and one we were hoping to build on. Like I said, you can kiss all that good bye

[realmirage]

54. I'm thinking of moving to Texas

where the insurance in my line of work is less expensive because there are larger pools paying in, but the state I'm in now is all screwed up. I'm curious though how Trump messes with Obamacare without causing a shitstorm

[tammywammy]

56. Texas didn't expand Medicare and didn't set up an exchange.

[treestar]

32. the Obamacare subsidies are based on income

you can afford the amount you are assigned based on studies of income and expenses. The government has these studies for all sorts of purposes, from bankruptcy cases to child support cases.

So people who claim they can't afford it are incorrect and just don't want to pay for their share of the premium even. Which is weird because it sounds like they expect to have the equivalent of Medicaid, where they pay nothing and everyone else pays, yet they make too much to be on Medicaid.

maybe they want to spend the money on something else, but the mandate says you have to be responsible enough to buy medical insurance you can afford and contribute to the system like everyone else.

[realmirage]

38. Lol ok then I guess I'll ask the writers

who wrote the articles you're citing to pay it, since I can't

[treestar]

40. you can based on your income

you just have to choose to pay for that as a necessity, after food and shelter and clothing. We think it enough of a necessity to think it should be paid for for people who can't afford it. That's the subsidy. That is based on your income. They are gently telling you to budget differently. No one can argue they can't afford their part of the subsidy. It is based on income level.

[Kali]

34. we meet again

and again you are posting right wing crap. Obamacare was not responsible for the loss. stupid morons who voted for the orange menace are responsible. idiots that bought into decades of demonization of the Clintons. dumbasses who don't have a clue about things like insurance and how it works. people that have no sympathy for their fellow travelers, jerks who think the homeless are all scammers. those are who are responsible.

[realmirage]

39. On ignore for trolling

[Kali]

43. that is what you said last time before replying to me several more times.

I have encountered others who accused me of trolling. as far as I know they have all been banned. all I did was reply to your OP that I saw on the Latest page (didn't even realize you were the author till I clicked).

FYI: generally it is some inflammatory assertion in an OP that is the trolling.

[SidDithers]

52. Yup. The masks eventually come off, eh?...nt

Sid

[paigeatemyshoes]

49. Obamacare was done wrong, sold wrong, and of course it cost Democrats in 2016!

My biggest beef with Obamacare is that the debate ignored the reality: Health Care is expensive and you can't magically cover 30-40 million more people without it costing a ton of money. We all know the reason that MOST people didn't have health coverage wasn't because they didn't want it, it was because they couldn't afford it. Penalizing individuals for not buying insurance, while eliminating major medical policies was a mistake.

My solution has always been the same to fix health care:

1. Make a list of the most expensive chronic conditions. Everyone diagnosed by 2 doctors with these conditions qualifies for medicare and you get a lifetime medicare card. Single payer for the most needy essentially.

2. Create a public option major medical program for young healthy people. First 20k per 5 year period is on the consumer, after that, single payer federal government. Nobody should go bankrupt for health care.

3. Tell the drug companies to go to hell, open our borders to foreign drugs.

[realmirage]

62. Drug companies... Yeah there's another asshole organization

that has a grip on our politicians. And we wonder why populists movements are thriving against establishment candidates

[SidDithers]

51. Transparent...

Sid

[jodymarie aimee]

55. Pay attention DEMS.... Risk Corrider

That means that when Ins Cos started losing $$$, risk corridor would kick in. And that means Ins Cos would get reimbursed by the Government. Guess who took the risk corridor OUT? Marco Rubio and 6 Rs.....how's that for fucking up the election for us 2 weeks before voting. I told all our DEMs here to tell voters that when doing door knocks. WE, meaning DEMS could fix that easily. ALL the lit here was how premiums were sky high. The Rs did this.... DEMS....please pay attention. We let them fuck us over.

[fleabiscuit]

60. Yes, Rubio's poison pill.