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What if Hillary had been swapped for Biden early..? (Original Post) Begabig Dec 2016 OP
Biden would be the 45th President being sworn in on Jan 20, not Drumpf putitinD Dec 2016 #1
What about his Iraq vote? Would he have received a pass or would he be labelled a war criminal... grossproffit Dec 2016 #25
Trump would have come after him in the debates and afterwards BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #27
He would have been attacked as viciously as Hillary was, maybe worse EffieBlack Dec 2016 #28
Those are still fairly limited issues. Not enough to throw so many voters to Johnson...and sympathy JudyM Dec 2016 #42
Those who voted for Stein...are not even worth talkng about... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #65
Respectfully disagree. Though they are no doubt masters of vicious ridicule, they still need fodder. JudyM Dec 2016 #67
They will always find fodder...count on it. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #68
Yep hueymahl Dec 2016 #35
Useless speculation, IMO. Biden didn't want to run. Arkansas Granny Dec 2016 #2
He wanted to run. Just not against Hillary. Nt NWCorona Dec 2016 #4
Well at least his career will end on a high note... Begabig Dec 2016 #8
What if Trump hadn't run at all? MineralMan Dec 2016 #3
This speculation is kinda pointless at this late in the game. NWCorona Dec 2016 #5
I agree with you on that still_one Dec 2016 #32
Sorry, but I think we would have lost bigger frazzled Dec 2016 #6
What I've observed in my adult voting life... Begabig Dec 2016 #7
So does Trump EffieBlack Dec 2016 #29
Biden is friendly, more relatable than tRump, plain-speaking with a sense of humor. Beats tRump on JudyM Dec 2016 #43
Depends on the audience EffieBlack Dec 2016 #49
We'd never get tRump's people, anyway. It's about middle America workers and populists. JudyM Dec 2016 #50
Joe is the man the media called the Gaffe Machine, and the Left repeated it Hekate Dec 2016 #60
Who the fuck is telling Hillary she can't go forward? Let me guess...a white man? nt LexVegas Dec 2016 #9
Someone with foresight? Begabig Dec 2016 #11
What if concrete Jesus had been substituted for Trump? GeorgeGist Dec 2016 #10
What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub? FSogol Dec 2016 #12
that's a useless question NRQ891 Dec 2016 #18
Love this one. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #38
who exactly would tell her this? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #13
Someone with a crystal ball that knows she would go on to lose... Begabig Dec 2016 #15
President Obama TSIAS Dec 2016 #40
what the president did was exactly the opposite, he encouraged Hillary to run La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #45
Any thought on Biden running in 2020? ALBliberal Dec 2016 #14
Maybe but I suspect his window had passed by... Begabig Dec 2016 #16
I would support him, LP2K12 Dec 2016 #19
He's a vigorous 70+ guy..so smart and savvy ALBliberal Dec 2016 #31
The blue wall would have held BigBadDem Dec 2016 #17
Biden would have won in a landslide. Joe941 Dec 2016 #20
I don't actually think so...had Bernie run in the primary against Biden who voted for the war Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #66
Biden would be President Elect right now.. nt Raine Dec 2016 #21
Who do you think had the right to tell Hillary she can't go forward? LisaL Dec 2016 #22
I think you're missing the point... Begabig Dec 2016 #37
Nobody had to tell Hillary anything. LisaL Dec 2016 #41
Maybe... Begabig Dec 2016 #44
It would still be close because I don't think he would get out of the primary/general unscathed. SaschaHM Dec 2016 #23
He'd get a pass on his Iraq vote, unlike Hillary, who was continually crucified for hers. grossproffit Dec 2016 #24
+1 Skid Rogue Dec 2016 #26
What if fairies are real and all we have to do is clap our hands and believe? rzemanfl Dec 2016 #30
BETTER: What if Biden had been swapped for Kaine early? (nt) Shemp Howard Dec 2016 #33
No change... Begabig Dec 2016 #36
What if....... calguy Dec 2016 #34
Hillary, too, had favorable ratings when she wasn't running Orangepeel Dec 2016 #39
and we are very good at killing our own candidate with right wing propoganda La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #47
Sadly true Hekate Dec 2016 #61
If my..... Puha Ekapi_2 Dec 2016 #46
If wishes and buts were clusters of nuts, we'd all have a bowl of granola. Nt Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2016 #48
He could have won but he also has a habit of saying things he shouldn't but... hrmjustin Dec 2016 #51
This election season? Begabig Dec 2016 #56
Yes this season! hrmjustin Dec 2016 #57
I hate autocorrect too. I had to turn it off. Hekate Dec 2016 #62
He would have done better in PA and the Rust Belt speaktruthtopower Dec 2016 #52
How many times has the same Party won three Presidential elections guillaumeb Dec 2016 #53
Wouldn't have helped. Biden has as many vulnerabilities as Hillary Ken Burch Dec 2016 #54
You know what they say about ASSumptions.By the way, Hillary WON the primary by millions of votes Hekate Dec 2016 #55
Among a whopping TWO serious candidates.... Begabig Dec 2016 #59
We Dems had several serious candidates, two of whom generated excitement and cash. Hekate Dec 2016 #63
He wouldn't have been running against Trump. noamnety Dec 2016 #58
You don't tell people they can or can't run...and Biden's kid was dying. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #64

grossproffit

(5,591 posts)
25. What about his Iraq vote? Would he have received a pass or would he be labelled a war criminal...
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:29 PM
Dec 2016

like Hillary? Inquiring minds want to know.

BeyondGeography

(40,014 posts)
27. Trump would have come after him in the debates and afterwards
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:43 PM
Dec 2016

Paul Ryan would have said to Trump, "Now you have scars just like me."

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
28. He would have been attacked as viciously as Hillary was, maybe worse
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:50 PM
Dec 2016

It's easy to have revisionist nostalgia, but folks need to remember that Biden has not alway been a darling of the left. He's a conservative Democrat who has a lot of baggage, including the Iraq vote.

For example, he is almost single-handedly responsible for Clarence Thomas being on the Supreme Court. He was chair of the Judiciary Committee and completely caved - refused at first to let Anita Hill testify, then allowed the Republicans to drag her through the mud and, after all that, allowed Thomas nomination to be voted out of his Committee and go to the floor where he knew Thomas had enough votes for confirmation. Civil rights and women's groups have never forgotten or fully forgiven him for that but held their fire when he became Obama's running mate. I doubt they would have continued to hold their tongues if he put himself out there to run for president.

Biden only became our sweet Crazy Joe as Obama's vice president. But let's not forget the call on the left to remove Biden from the 2012 ticket and replace him with Hillary, whom folks insisted was much more qualified and electable than Biden. At the time, Hillary was as popular as Biden is now. Only when she began to run for President did they bring out the long knives. And they would have done the same thing to Biden.

As I said, revisionism is easy. Reality is hard.

JudyM

(29,517 posts)
42. Those are still fairly limited issues. Not enough to throw so many voters to Johnson...and sympathy
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:11 AM
Dec 2016

for his losing his son could have motivated fewer Dems to stay home.

Demsrule86

(71,021 posts)
65. Those who voted for Stein...are not even worth talkng about...
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 07:33 AM
Dec 2016

Biden has been ridiculed and targeted by the GOP for years...there will never be a Democratic candidate that doesn't face this.

JudyM

(29,517 posts)
67. Respectfully disagree. Though they are no doubt masters of vicious ridicule, they still need fodder.
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 10:12 AM
Dec 2016

And the amount and nature of the fodder matters. In this election, the issues that seemed to matter to voters aligned well with their criticisms.

MineralMan

(147,578 posts)
3. What if Trump hadn't run at all?
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:25 AM
Dec 2016

We can all conduct such exercises in wishful thinking. They're all a waste of time. Reality is what it is.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
6. Sorry, but I think we would have lost bigger
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:32 AM
Dec 2016

Biden was tied to the current administration for eight years. People were looking for change (as they always do after two terms of one party's administration), and he would represent a real continuation of the Obama administration. Which would be fine with me, but I'm sure it wouldn't go over all that well with the rest of America.

And then there's the gaffe factor. You've got to admit it.

 

Begabig

(76 posts)
7. What I've observed in my adult voting life...
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 12:05 PM
Dec 2016

... Is that the candidate with personality wins. Policy is a distant second.

Clinton / Bush
Bush / Gore
Bush / Kerry
Obama / McCain
Obama / Romney
Trump / Clinton

Seems to be the only constant.

Biden has personality.

JudyM

(29,517 posts)
43. Biden is friendly, more relatable than tRump, plain-speaking with a sense of humor. Beats tRump on
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:14 AM
Dec 2016

all that, across the board.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
49. Depends on the audience
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 03:44 PM
Dec 2016

A lot of people can't stand him. To Trump's people, Trump has a much better personality.

Perspective.

Hekate

(94,648 posts)
60. Joe is the man the media called the Gaffe Machine, and the Left repeated it
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 02:37 AM
Dec 2016

That Joe Biden? Yeah, I love him, but as soon as he runs for something all the knives come out.

TSIAS

(14,689 posts)
40. President Obama
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:01 AM
Dec 2016

He couldn't have told her not to run, but could have privately expressed his preference for Biden to be his successor.

However, that was unlikely to ever happen. I think the President felt some loyalty to Hillary and her husband for their efforts in electing him in 2008 and his reelection in 2012.

It can't ever be acknowledged publicly, but there had to have been an understanding between Obama and Clinton that 2016 would be her time.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
45. what the president did was exactly the opposite, he encouraged Hillary to run
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:57 AM
Dec 2016

and discouraged Biden. there was a NYTIMES article about this

ALBliberal

(2,843 posts)
31. He's a vigorous 70+ guy..so smart and savvy
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 10:13 PM
Dec 2016

And he comes off as your average Joe.. I would heavily support him. AND he's got Obamas legacy. If he were willing to run I think he's the right combination.

Demsrule86

(71,021 posts)
66. I don't actually think so...had Bernie run in the primary against Biden who voted for the war
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 07:34 AM
Dec 2016

and is not as tough on big banks as Bernie would like...he would have been damaged and lost too...the party was damaged by the primary.

LisaL

(46,603 posts)
22. Who do you think had the right to tell Hillary she can't go forward?
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 08:58 PM
Dec 2016

If Biden wanted to run no one was stopping him. He didn't want to run.

 

Begabig

(76 posts)
37. I think you're missing the point...
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:39 AM
Dec 2016

It's hypothetical and this person obviously didn't exist.

Imagine that a time traveling Hillary came back and warned her past self instead if it helps move you along.

LisaL

(46,603 posts)
41. Nobody had to tell Hillary anything.
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:08 AM
Dec 2016

Biden could have run if he wanted to, regardless of whether Hillary also run.
Biden didn't want to run.

 

Begabig

(76 posts)
44. Maybe...
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 11:19 AM
Dec 2016

This is all hypothetical....

What if...

What if Beau Biden hadn't died?

What if Hillary had decided her political baggage was too much?

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
23. It would still be close because I don't think he would get out of the primary/general unscathed.
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:12 PM
Dec 2016

Most of the primary attacks against Clinton could easily be painted onto Biden and if Clinton represented "the establishment", then Biden would as well. Jill Stein and Gary Johnson would still be there to be the recipient of those sick of whatever the establishment is this year, but unwilling to go to Trump. We're assuming that Clinton lost those Obama 2012 voters on her own, but that's ignoring the steady decline of democrats state by state since President Obama took office and the efficient job that republicans have had painting him as the bearer of all their misfortunes (even though they overwhelmingly hold power in the statehouses). TPP/Syria/Obamacare etc. would all be pinned on Biden as VP. The fact that he was one of the authors of the Crime Bill would be used to depress black turnout. His plagiarism scandal would be played over and over by the media to bring down his trustworthiness numbers.

grossproffit

(5,591 posts)
24. He'd get a pass on his Iraq vote, unlike Hillary, who was continually crucified for hers.
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:26 PM
Dec 2016

He's a man, after all.

rzemanfl

(30,288 posts)
30. What if fairies are real and all we have to do is clap our hands and believe?
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:59 PM
Dec 2016

Then Tinkerbell will sprinkle her magic dust and we can all fly away from this hell hole of a country.

calguy

(5,767 posts)
34. What if.......
Fri Dec 2, 2016, 11:36 PM
Dec 2016

A few more lazy liberals would have gotten their asses to the polls and voted for Hillary.
What if we didn't have to wonder what if?

Orangepeel

(13,969 posts)
39. Hillary, too, had favorable ratings when she wasn't running
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 08:03 AM
Dec 2016

I love Biden, think he'd be a great president and would have supported him. But it's not like he doesn't have skeletons in his closet. And republicans would have just made up more. They're very, very, good at that.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
47. and we are very good at killing our own candidate with right wing propoganda
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:27 PM
Dec 2016

something we did to HRC, at to lesser degrees gore and kerry

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,551 posts)
48. If wishes and buts were clusters of nuts, we'd all have a bowl of granola. Nt
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 12:32 PM
Dec 2016

Last edited Mon Dec 5, 2016, 02:37 PM - Edit history (1)

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
51. He could have won but he also has a habit of saying things he shouldn't but...
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 03:50 PM
Dec 2016

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2016, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)

...with Trump it might not have been as big an issue for Biden.

On a side note I typed in Biden and auto correct gives me video. I hate auto correct!

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
53. How many times has the same Party won three Presidential elections
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 04:35 PM
Dec 2016

in a row?

Roosevelt had three terms, Reagan was succeeded by Bush Sr. Other than those two instances......any others?

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
54. Wouldn't have helped. Biden has as many vulnerabilities as Hillary
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 04:48 PM
Dec 2016

Last edited Sat Dec 3, 2016, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Plus, there was no way he could have stayed in the race after his son's death from cancer. You just couldn't have asked that of anyone.

Hekate

(94,648 posts)
55. You know what they say about ASSumptions.By the way, Hillary WON the primary by millions of votes
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 04:48 PM
Dec 2016

....among contentious Democrats. Nationwide, among all voters, HILLARY HAS 2.5+ MILLION MORE VOTES THAN TRUMP.

Christ on a trailer hitch.

 

Begabig

(76 posts)
59. Among a whopping TWO serious candidates....
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 07:25 PM
Dec 2016

One of whom wasn't really even in the party.

I would suggest we could have benefited from a more vigorous competition from the get go instead of what we got.

We could have ended up with a winner instead.

Hekate

(94,648 posts)
63. We Dems had several serious candidates, two of whom generated excitement and cash.
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 05:15 AM
Dec 2016

BTW, Hillary generated enough of both to win both the primary and general elections on sheer numbers of votes. Don't tell me she was not "exciting enough."

Trump wll be president because the GOP cheats and this time around they encouraged and condoned what amounted to treason.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
58. He wouldn't have been running against Trump.
Sat Dec 3, 2016, 07:08 PM
Dec 2016

Without that phone call from Bill, the whole field of players would have been different, so it's very hard to say.

Demsrule86

(71,021 posts)
64. You don't tell people they can or can't run...and Biden's kid was dying.
Sun Dec 4, 2016, 07:32 AM
Dec 2016

It is not Hillary's fault...Bernie should never have run...this election was too important...ironic that a guy who considers himself a democratic socialist probably helped lose all of the socialist programs from both Roosevelt and Johnson.

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