There are very real impediments to reaching the white working class.

[DanTex]

The Democrats already by far have the best economic policies for working people. The problem reaching the "white working class" is that many of them have other beliefs that are abhorrent to progressives.

They are socially conservative. Abortion, racial equality, LGBT, church/state, etc., a large part of the white working class is on the wrong side of all of them.

They are anti-environment. Many working class whites see environmental regulations as job-killing government intrusion which values frogs more than humans. We lost coal country as soon as we started paying attention to climate change.

They are anti-government. Reagan won them over with his "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" line. This is why, for example, Hillary's position on coal -- we can't keep burning it, but we want to retrain coal workers and give them jobs producing clean energy -- doesn't work. They don't want the government to help them.

They like war. And torture. Trump's "bomb the shit out of them" and "we should torture even if it doesn't work" and "we should have stolen Iraq's oil" are pretty much how a lot of white working class people think on foreign policy. I've heard people saying these things long before there was a Trump.

They don't like taxes, even on rich people. I've talked to minimum wage earners about the inheritance tax, where I tried to explain it only affects a few hundred families every year who inherit over $10M dollars. Doesn't matter. They are opposed to very concept of the government taking money from people, and the logic that if it doesn't come from trust fund babies then it has to come from working people goes nowhere.

They are anti-intellectual. "I love the poorly educated" can summarize the 2016 election as much as any other quote. A lot of working class whites don't trust "book learning", don't trust universities, don't trust science (half of the US are creationists of varying degrees).

The list goes on. And before anyone jumps down my throat, obviously not all working class white people share these views. Not all working class white people voted for Trump, in fact. But the contingent of working class whites that have been drifting to the GOP does believe these things. And they believe them "bigly".


Which means that it's not as simple as "stop talking about bathrooms and start talking about jobs." In fact, there's a big irony in the people who are chiding liberals for talking down to the white working class. These same people think that working class whites are so simplistic that if you just say "jobs" then they'll vote for you.

None of the things I've listed above are things that progressives are going to just give up on, nor should they. Which means we have a problem with white working class voters that's not just going to go away. And it's not just social issues or "identity politics".

Bernie Sanders, correctly IMO, identified climate change as the greatest threat facing this country (and also the world). Well, working class whites don't believe that. And using science to try to persuade them doesn't work because they don't believe in science and don't like intellectuals. And trying to woo them with green jobs doesn't work because they hate the government.

So anyone who thinks if we just abandon free trade agreements and take on a more economic populist tone is going to convert a lot of working class whites is kidding themselves.

[heaven05]

1. TRUTH

I think a lot of that "conversion of the racist" talk is naive in the least, trollish at its worst.

[NRQ891]

2. I think that's greatly over-simplified,

if not, bordering on outright bigoted

you made a number of (literally) bolded assertions, then added an unbolded preemptive backpedaling 'disclaimer' 'The list goes on. And before anyone jumps down my throat, obviously not all working class white people share these views.'

[heaven05]

3. Nothing bigoted about the truth

with naivete not an option these next four 4 4 4 years. Have a go at converting the racist, sexist, xenophobic a******* who voted for the fuhrer-in-waiting. Blindness to the truth is also not an option. I don't want you in my foxhole. 26 posts? Right.

[NRQ891]

4. 'I don't want you in my foxhole. 26 posts? Right.'

my my my, aren't we feeling noninclusive this morning?

[DanTex]

7. LOL. You first joined DU yesterday?

Just Perchance Recently?
Jeez! Possible Really?

[NRQ891]

9. is there a ban on new members I'm not aware of?

or is there just a 'know your place' requirement?

[DanTex]

10. Joking (Probably). Relax.

[NRQ891]

12. as a new member

you'll understand that it's harder for me to understand what's joking and what's literal - especialy when you put (probably) next to joking

[NRQ891]

14. my joining comes from this

having been an occasional 'lurker', that I think (as I've stated in this post) http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2635142

the potential for a massive political re-alignment exists, that populists have been artificially split by social issues for decades, and were they to unite to a new political party, and agree to fight their social issues outside of the party, they could rise overnight. If I really wanted this to happen, I wouldnt be saying it here. I'm saying there is a huge risk at dumping a large number of people in a basket and tossing them out - they might be excluded here, but thery have plenty of independents and disgruntled republicans to join with. And social technology never dreamed of 2 decades ago. Kind of like 'Arab Spring'. One thing that should not go unnoticed about Trump, is that he upset the entire political establishment, pundits, media, campaign war chest comparisons etc. with George Will as the poster boy.

A very crude analogy would be Fred Flintstone putting the cat out, the cat jumping through the window, and putting Fred out, leaving Fred locked out yelling 'Wilma!' - not locked out of the party, but locked out of relevance in the political arena. This is a very dangerous time to be an echo chamber (IMO)

[DanTex]

17. OK, but you know how the internet works.

You join a forum and on your first day accuse someone who's been here almost 15 years (me) of bigotry, expect a little pushback.

Anyway, welcome to DU.

BTW, another way of looking at "populists artificially split by social issues" is to say that non-racist people have been artificially split by economic issues. Two sides of the same coin. I don't want to abandon either social or economic issues. And also not environmental issues, which is a big area where the white working class is not on the progressive side.

[NRQ891]

19. 'accuse someone who's been here almost 15 years (me) of bigotry'

were you not pointing the finger as well?

'Abortion, racial equality, LGBT, church/state, etc., a large part of the white working class is on the wrong side of all of them. ', 'They like war. And torture.' 'They are anti-intellectual.'

ever heard the cliche -'when you point a finger, you have 3 fingers pointing back at you'? or perhaps, 'he can give it, but he can't take it'(latter one actually applies to the President-elect)

'Anyway, welcome to DU. '

Thank you

[DanTex]

21. Not at you. I was pointing a finger at Trump voters.

You get the difference, right?

[NRQ891]

23. 'You get the difference, right?'

the title of the OP was 'white working class', not 'Trump Voters'

[DanTex]

25. And that's why I pointed out that not all WWC are like this.

And you're missing the larger context. All the talk is about how we need to cater to the WWC to get them to vote for us instead of Trump. Obviously we're not talking about the minority of non-college educated whites that already vote Dem. We're talking about the majority that don't.

[NRQ891]

26. also, I may be new to DU

but our family's membership in the Democratic party goes back more than 100 years

[DanTex]

5. The bolded assertions are largely accurate.

Like I said, it doesn't describe every single white person without a college degree. Michael Moore is a white person without a college degree, and he doesn't believe any of that. But whites without college went to Trump by around 40 points, and these are the reasons why.

[mythology]

29. 50% of those with a high school degree or less

Support the availability of abortion in all or most cases. 57% of white people support abortion.

50% of Hispanics oppose abortion and the vast majority of Hispanic voters vote Democratic.

http://www.pewforum.org/2016/04/08/public-opinion-on-abortion-2/

Public opinion polls show the lowest income Americans favor higher taxes on the wealthy.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/190775/americans-say-upper-income-pay-little-taxes.aspx

Your assertions don't appear to be as broadly accurate as you believe.

[forjusticethunders]

6. I think converting most of them is impossible

We don't need to do that, however, we need to do the following:

- Maximize POC turnout (we need to be working NOW to overcome current AND FUTURE voter suppression laws and get POC to the polls anyway).
- Stop the bleeding in rural areas (if we can turn 93-7 rural areas into 75-25 and 75-25 exurban areas into 60-40, that secures rural blue states. If there are reasonable WWC people there, we need to get them to the polls.

Many of the WWC are unreachable, however, some are not. The sad thing is that Hillary partially got this (read the FULL text of the Deplorables speech, but the messaging didn't speak to it enough), and Bill absolutely got this, but Podesta and Mook were clueless. Granted, I bought into the spin too (why did we think Republicans would flip? GOP voters always come home, and Trump doesn't represent anything fundamentally different from what """moderate""" conservatives actually believe, he's just more brazen about it)

[TwilightZone]

8. As you noted, it's not all of them, but a significant subset...

do fit the bill in many ways. There's a base percentage that I simply don't think we can reach.

That's not defeatism, it's reality. If Donald Trump's habitual (and obvious, as far as I'm concerned) lying didn't convince them that the GOP is full of shit, I'm not sure why we assume that we'd have any better luck. Their underlying issues didn't change, and they were open to Trump's delusions because he shamelessly pandered to them.

In reality, we have the numbers and they're improving demographically as time goes by. I think we'd be much better off trying to improve and maintain turnout on our side than trying to convert the nonconvertible.

[Coventina]

11. Thank you. And, I would add, they are increasingly anti-union as well.

They literally do not understand the benefits for paying union dues.

All they know is that their paycheck is affected, therefore it is unfair.

[gollygee]

13. That's my experience

Not all of them, but a large percentage. Small towns are insular. They don't hear other views often, and have a hard time being open to them when they see them on TV. They seem like east or west coast intellectual ideas.

I really think people who don't understand the upper midwest and this election need to read the book Sundown Towns. It is a big part of the history of this part of the country. More information: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/20/AR2006022001590.html

[DanTex]

22. Thanks for the link, that's a great article.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

15. Focus on educating the children of these people because there is still hope for them

Change starts with the kids. If we provide them with a better education it will make a difference in their lives and it will make a difference in how they vote.

[gollygee]

16. Too bad we have Betsy DeVos as education secretary then. Nt

[Txbluedog]

18. That's painting them with a broad stroke

Yes, this is all true for some of them (at least 1 of these probably applies to each individual person) . However, we need to address them and make them feel like they have something to gain by voting Democrat. We know that we don't need all of them or even a majority of them. But we do need some of them to help sway results in our favor.

[get the red out]

20. They gobble up RW media

And they believe it is the only truth.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. Best to just permanantly cede them to the Repugs.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

27. I worked at a sweat shop where people made minimum wage ($3.35/hr back then)...

... and saw with my own eyes how Rush Limbaugh convinced many of them that they'd get paid more if companies didn't have to pay such high taxes to support people on welfare.

That simple message worked on their simple minds.

Side note:
The African Americans there at least had the good sense to avoid the worst jobs in that place if they could. I think most of them had a better understanding of exploitation. It was usually the white workers who'd offer to work in the "oven" (a large series of rooms that were very hot to help dry parts on a conveyor more quickly), as if anyone managing that place ever gave a damn about them.

[geek tragedy]

28. That goes for about 55-60% of them.

Problem is Clinton lost WWC voters who don't fall into that description.

Some of those folks voted for Obama twice.

[OnionPatch]

30. I'm glad you said "most"

Because I think a lot of people here feel like they've been included in all the "white working class" criticism. And there are plenty of white working class people who are Democrats.

As for the free trade agreements....When did the majority of rank and file Democrats decide those were good things? I guess I missed the memo because I think they suck and most of my liberal friends feel the same.