2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIn PA, Jill Stein waited till the last minute, likely won't have enough volunteers
She needs 3 volunteers from EVERY one of the thousands of districts in the state to sign affadavits, and only had 1500 (out of 30,000 needed) as of Sunday. Why didn't she start that at the same time she started collecting money for the recounts?
And why didn't she post info about needing the PA volunteers on the donation page, where people would be sure to see it? Lots of people would probably have been happy to sign the affidavits, if she had started collecting names soon enough. As it is, she's already missed the deadline in some districts.
http://billypenn.com/2016/11/28/jill-steins-pennsylvania-recount-4-new-developments-on-deadline-day/
Stein cant simply ask for a recount in Pennsylvania. She needs Keystone State residents to ask for one for her.
Thats because for a recount to happen barring a credible accusation of voter fraud ruled by the courts three voters in each district must petition the results through an affidavit. Philadelphia alone, with its 1,600 voting divisions, would need requests from nearly 5,000 people to undergo a recount. The whole state would likely need about 30,000 volunteers. Stein got about 49,000 votes in PA.
Through Facebook and Twitter, shes been asking for volunteers and has set up a process showing interested parties how to file an affidavit. As of 11 a.m. Sunday, she tweeted 1,500 Pennsylvanians had volunteered.
The deadline has already passed in some Pennsylvania districts, Stein said in a message to prospective volunteers. So its unlikely all of Pennsylvania is going to be recounted, regardless of Steins attempt.
SNIP
Should a significant number of counties get the requisite number of petitions, the recount process could be arduous. This is because many Pennsylvania polling stations dont produce paper copies.
For a recount, each machine in the state would have to be opened and re-analyzed. Stein is also seeking volunteers to observe this recount process, especially in Pennsylvanias smaller counties.
madaboutharry
(41,356 posts)how messed up the entire system really is. It also shows some incompetence on her part to have not gotten things lined up.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)since she said that they'd be keeping unneeded money for their "election integrity" efforts, whatever that is.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)Wisconsin now wants huge amts of money - way beyond what they originally asked for according to Greg Palist.
SickOfTheOnePct
(7,356 posts)based on a recount of about half as many votes. I would expect it to be more, just curious as to how much more.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(7,356 posts)do you have a link? Thanks!
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)They want to pay the Wisconsin workers in the audit more money now. He will be posting a question and answer post soon. Greg is friends with one of Jill's lawyers. He said her lawyer is one of the best.
SickOfTheOnePct
(7,356 posts)$3.5 million. If it turns out to be less, they get a refund. If it's more, they have to pay the additional.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)madaboutharry
(41,356 posts)was that the need for voter signatures should have been posted on the day the collection of money began so there could be a jump on things. I understand the enormity of this undertaking.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)to keep track of.
What kind of team does she have for stuff like this?
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)Those 30,000 volunteers were as critical as the millions of dollars.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)pnwmom
(109,562 posts)without checking the procedures first?
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)it was only a few counties that passed the deadline.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)The Stein recount effort is mobilizing concerned voters across Pennsylvania to request recounts in their precincts, Ms Stein campaign manager David Cobb told Politico in a statement.
Additionally, the campaign filed a legal petition in state court today on behalf of 100 Pennsylvania voters to protect their right to substantively contest the election in Pennsylvania beyond the recounts being filed by voters at the precinct level.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/election-recount-jill-stein-pennsylvania-recount-a7444231.html
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)which is great news
anamandujano
(7,004 posts)womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)which is what they are going after. That's were all the discrepancies will be.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)the lack of probability of hacks, maybe she got caught up in the excitement??
Not her money after all.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)It won't hurt her if they don't get approved for a recount. They'll get to keep it for their "election integrity" work, which is how they position their whole party.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)pnwmom
(109,562 posts)So they will use the money to promote their party.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)the FEC has rules.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)the Green's own web site.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)pnwmom
(109,562 posts)And Fox is apparently capable of reading the Green's website.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)and the funds are in a separate account. He also said it was a Republican talking point that is untrue.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)that Bernie was winning in CA and they weren't counting provisional votes there -- all lies. Some states might not count provisional votes but they always do in California. And the final result put Hillary solidly ahead, just as they had announced on the day of the election.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)and he has been digging up good stuff about sleazy Kris Kobach who Trump wants to give a cabinet position too. With his program crosscheck, Kobach denied thousands of dems their right to vote - and for that Kobach gets a present of a possible cabinet post.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-gops-stealth-war-against-voters-w435890
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)All he would have had to do was "investigate" the Secretary of State's website, where anyone could view the counting -- of all the separate categories of ballots -- while it was going on.
Or he could have consulted Snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/uncounted-california-ballots/
"USA Daily Politics cited a blog post by investigative journalist Greg Palast to support its claim that a majority of provisional ballots were discarded. However, that claim was addressed and largely debunked the next day, when Dean Logan of the Los Angeles County Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk addressed fears of uncounted provisional ballots on Twitter and stated that most would probably be deemed valid and added to totals.
https://www.lavote.net/home/voting-elections/voting-options/at-the-polls/provisional-voting
Past election records show that on average 85-90% of provisional ballots are valid and counted.
So he lied about CA not counting provisional votes, and he lied about Bernie winning CA:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/22/californias-lengthy-vote-count-stokes-theories-that-sanders-actually-won-the-primary/
"I can tell you this: Senator Sanders won California," Palast said. "Let me do the math for you. Most of those late mailed-in ballots were what are called NPP, No Party Preference. These independent ballots were the ones that came in late because people had to switch their ballots. Its a complex process, in California, thats all I can tell you. The late ballots are Sanders ballots."
SickOfTheOnePct
(7,356 posts)If there is extra money in the donation fund -- or if Steins petition fails to pass muster with the election commissions in any of the states --Martin promised that the money will be used to fund the Green partys local campaign schools, meant to groom local candidates for public service. As a national party, our commitment is to build at the local level, Martin said. Thats where these dollars and excess dollars will go.
On her website, however, Steins donation page says that any extra dollars not devoted to the recount will go toward election integrity efforts and to promote voting system reform."
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)Greg Palist just that that is being spread falsely by Republicans. The FEC specifies those funds must be in a separate account.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)Wisconsin especially keeps upping the money they now want according to Greg Palist.
anamandujano
(7,004 posts)He will probably fight this tooth and nail and have lawyers all over the place to delay, deny and whatever else they can think of. There will be zip left. As you say, it's a Repuke talking point.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)So funny but not really because it shows his dementia.
anamandujano
(7,004 posts)He could challenge in states Hillary took but methinks he's been advised it wouldn't be helpful to his cause.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)At first she said that attorneys fees would be 1 million. Then she changed it to 2-3 million.
Add her biggest estimate for attorney's fees to the filing fees and the result is 5.1 million. So she has almost $2 million in padding, which should be plenty. And if PA derails her lawsuit quickly, which it probably will, then most of the PA money won't be spent.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)And tiresome.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)over and over
texasmomof3
(108 posts)She is not new to politics or recounts not to mention the rules are easily found by google. Seriously, if I can find the rules so can she and or her team. If you want to be taken seriously you get your act together and you get your game plan in place in plenty of time to do what you are asking millions of people to donate for. If she wasn't aware of it then she was not prepared for or qualified for this fight. You don't do something like this half ass. It makes you look foolish and incompetent at best and deceitful at worst. Her donors deserve her full and complete effort and by not asking for volunteers sooner she did not do her best.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)pnwmom
(109,562 posts)womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)meow2u3
(24,922 posts)Otherwise, I'd volunteer. It does cost money in PA to initiate a recount/audit.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)I'm sure they are concentrating on certain counties.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)they only use paperless, hackable machines.
LisaL
(46,604 posts)Bob41213
(491 posts)So they reread the memory and find it's the same as before unless there was a human transposition error.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)Looks like early voting was all on paper.
I assume they check the machines for malware and if the results from each machine was actually added to the final total, etc.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)What that will prove, I don't know -- especially because one of the computer scientists pointed out that hacking software can be programmed to self-destruct after an election.
The computer scientist says paper is the only safe way to go.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Allegheny is a smart target.
And all Philly machines print to a paper tape. I've voted in them and my prior apartment building was my precinct. I've seen these machines delivered, set up, torn down. I've seen the tapes. I've inquired about the tapes. There is one tape for each machine and each is labeled with its corresponding machine.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)and Philadelphia county is one of them. I wonder if yours was an exception. Did you vote there recently? Because some counties are continuing to buy these DRE paperless machines.
https://www.verifiedvoting.org/verifier/#year/2016/state/42
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Now, I don't know that there's a record of every vote on that tape, but there is a paper tape with the final tally, and I don't think the machines can be easily tampered after they're set up.
Now, as for code and the internal counting mechanism, I can't speak for that.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)in the event of a disputed election.
In states like Pennsylvania, these voting machines are delivered to polling places several days before the election to elementary schools, churches and firehouses, he said. That creates the risk of tampering. This is not just one glitch in one manufacturers machine. Its the very nature of computers, he told a House subcommittee last month.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-pennsylvania-voting-paperless-20161020-snap-story.html
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)are either optical scanners of paper ballots; or electronic machines that make an instant paper trail of each individual ballot.
The computer scientists say the electronic machines are easily hackable -- even if they're not connected to the Internet -- and the hack can occur without leaving traces.
DeminPennswoods
(16,317 posts)I did a little spreadsheet and while I don't think this is anything more than Dem ticket-splitting or voters registered with other parties voting for Trump, there are 13 counties where Trump got more votes than there were Republicans registered to vote (i.e., more than 100% of registered Rs).
The list: Armstrong, Beaver, Cambria, Carbon, Elk, Fayette, Greene, Indiana, Lackawanna, Lawrence, Luzerne, Washington and Westmoreland.
Most of these counties are in western Pa and the voters here have been steadily becoming more conservative voting. Voting registration has changed, and is continuing to change, from D to R, but it's not complete yet.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)So hopefully they will be on that. I do not live in PA, but my KGB/GOP brother served time there, lol (we don't speak)
drm604
(16,230 posts)What court orders?
Amishman
(5,816 posts)The Republicans were freaking out that this would allow our side to commit fraud.
The back story is that there are parts of Philly so blue that the Pubs couldn't find residents to be poll watchers. They asked to bring in watchers from outside and were denied. I wouldn't worry about those districts, there literally were no Republicans around to try anything.
Link to story
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-03/gop-barred-from-sending-poll-watchers-to-philadelphia
drm604
(16,230 posts)In PA there are restrictions on who can be a poll watcher. I forget the exact details but to be a watcher. you have to be registered in that precinct, or maybe you just have to be registered in the county, I'm not sure which.
Philadelphia is heavily minority (and is it's own county) so I can easily imagine them having difficulty finding Republicans that could legally watch the polls.
4139
(1,981 posts)the lawsuit filed this afternoon.... filed on behalf of 100 Pennsylvania voters
The deadline to file is Mon., Nov. 28th
4139
(1,981 posts)According to Wanda Murren, spokeswoman for the Pennsylvania Department of State, the deadline under the law for a voter-initiated recount at the county level had been Monday, Nov. 21.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Despite-successful-fundraising-effort-recount-of-Pennsylvania-remains-difficult.html%3Famphtml%3Dy?client=safari
I get it now
I think she did all she could do
It was up to us in Pa to do the rest. I can tell you I was scrambling because I was unaware of the recount laws and only found out yesterday.
I was able to get mine done in Leigh county
Its not steins fault. It was us, in Pa, fault, for not knowing the laws.
drm604
(16,230 posts)but I started a new job today and, given the short time frame, there was simply no way that I could notarize and deliver an affadavit in time. And two other people were needed for just my precinct.
Since I did sign up I've been seeing the emails flying back and forth on the recount mailing list. People were confused about where to file. People were desperately trying to find voters to sign affadavits. People were trying to find available notaries.
And on top of all of that, apparently someone on FB was posting false stories saying don't bother, county clerks are refusing the affadavits, which wasn't true.
It does appear that there may be some precincts that have the necessary number of affadavits to trigger a recount, but there are many more that don't.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Millions more than she was able to raise throughout her entire campaign.
She figured out a way to get Democrats to give her money while she continues to bash Hillary Clinton.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)It's in a separate account only used for the purpose intended.
Greg Palist addressed this today on Randi Rhodes - saying it is a Republican talking point and there is zero concern.
Stein will probably need to raise even more money because the Wisconsin older white guys Election Committe are being assh**es and keep upping the money they want for their audit workers.
anamandujano
(7,004 posts)andym
(5,685 posts)You would think with the social networks she could gather enough people, but the word really needs to get out faster.
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)pnwmom
(109,562 posts)since she needed them to go forward? Why take the money and not collect the volunteers for the affidavits? There are more than 9600 precincts and she needed 3 volunteers from each.
apcalc
(4,518 posts)The affidavit asked for not only a recount, but the affidavit asked for a forensic analysis of the lousy machines we use. Two of us have volunteered to monitor a recount.
It is DISGRACEFUL in the way we vote.
I'll file affidavits very year from now on because the way it is done is completely unacceptable .
Fraud and Hack waiting to happen....
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)said, I will concede after a recount in the close states if I am short. Conceding says to all the world you lost.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)anamandujano
(7,004 posts)drm604
(16,230 posts)Montgomery County PA is delaying certification until Dec. 12. I'm not sure about other counties.
http://www.montcopa.org/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/3516
womanofthehills
(9,272 posts)Theyre also seeking a forensic analysis of the voting machines, he said, because they believe there is some funny business or fraud or something that took place with the machines themselves, that they were capable of being hacked.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/11/28/pennsylvania-election-results-recount/
apcalc
(4,518 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Anyone who believes there was no maleficence on behalf of the Republicans is living in a fairy land.