2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThis is what the Dems need to be doing - Sanders: use defense contracts as leverage for Carrier jobs
You see, we can fight for social justice AND fight for the blue collar working class.. If we had done that, a recount wouldn't be necessary
Both Sanders, who challenged Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, and Trump seized on an announcement earlier this year by United Technologies Corp's Carrier division that it would shift production to Mexico as an example of how trade deals hurt U.S. workers.
Sanders on Saturday warned "it is not good enough to save some of these jobs" and said Trump should use as leverage United Technologies' defense contracts, Export-Import Bank financing, and tax breaks.
"I call on Mr. Trump to make it clear to the CEO of United Technologies that if his firm wants to receive another defense contract from the taxpayers of this country, it must not move these plants to Mexico," the senator from Vermont said in a statement.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-sanders-idUSKBN13L0YU
JHan
(10,173 posts)What Bernie proposes is sexy sounding, it will resonate, and it will be disastrous.
We keep addressing the symptoms rather than the causes. If this ever would become law, expect more business flight.
GP6971
(32,982 posts)That would be discrimination as they are different business units. Also, it isn't illegal for a company to move operations off shore. I'm not saying I like it and I think it's wrong, but UT would have every right to sue the US government.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)I think is a symbol of why the Democratic Party is sinking fast.
GP6971
(32,982 posts)I deal with Federal Procurement and countless laws and regulations would have to be changed. It's just reality.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)I guess you know government better than Bernie Sanders? I guess he's just making up fantasies and there are NO ways to do it? I wonder, if we actually took a second to ponder it, it would probably require caring just a little about the rust belt, which just handed us a giant defeat...
GP6971
(32,982 posts)but it would require legislation which the repugs wouldn't even consider seeing that;
proposed legislation is from the democratic side. Automatic NO
repugs don't want to damage their relationship with the MIC. Too lucrative to give up
And finally jobs. Why is the trouble plagued F35 program still going strong? Because Lockheed Martin spread out their work and subcontractor's work in multiple states (I think about 35-40) resulting in representatives voting to keep the project to protect the jobs.
Two key things are needed....pass new legislation and severely restrict lobbying.
And no I don't know the POLITCAL aspects of government contracting better than BS. But I do know the nuts and bolts of working with government contracts.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)make good on his promise, so the push would be coming from Trump's base. And in the meantime the Democrats would look like they give a shit by supporting this strategy publicly. This is how we begin to win back the image of the party of the working class.
JHan
(10,173 posts)GP6971
(32,982 posts)I just responded with a dose of reality.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)United Technologies owns Pratt & Whitney. Pratt & Whitney makes the engine for the F-35.
GP6971
(32,982 posts)I forgot about that
realmirage
(2,117 posts)of the Democratic Party. The knee jerk reactions against any attempt to fight for the working class is what earns us that "elitist" label we hate so much
JHan
(10,173 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)An order from the president. Is this his big critique of Trump this week? Wow.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)is a will to fight for the working class in the rust belt as well, which just flipped red and kicked what little ass we had left in government.
By the way in another interview just today Sanders stood up for social justice and blue collar jobs in the same breath. It's in the Sanders section. That's what the Democratic Party needs to get back to.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Not true.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)There was a little talk about raising the minimum wage a tad, and sort of reforming wall street a tad... but that doesn't solve the immediate problems of the vanishing working class in the rust belt. Or didn't we just hear them speak loud and clear to us on Nov 8?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)But just a tad, not big jumbo lies like Donald. Have heard she should have lied before too. hmmmmmm.
JHan
(10,173 posts)I don't believe any politician should lie to people or give them false hope.
That is cruel.
That is inhumane.
Arazi
(6,907 posts)Good luck
realmirage
(2,117 posts)Arazi
(6,907 posts)than winning elections.
Fall in line or be purged
JHan
(10,173 posts)I have never attacked the man personally though. These days , if you don't fall in line with everything he says you're deemed to be "the problem", "the reason we lost" or some other thing..while the person accusing you never really addresses the points you raised.
DemonGoddess
(5,123 posts)He talks big, but you know, he really doesn't SEE or know how to implement any of this. Or have you forgotten the NYDN interview?
JHan
(10,173 posts)Or something like that..
DemonGoddess
(5,123 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)It is inappropriate for the president to threaten an individual company with retribution like this. We are supposed to be a nation of laws. Building air conditioners has nothing to do with national security, defense contracts should have nothing to do with their decision.
We're talking about 1400 jobs here, a drop in the bucket. Direct intervention like this is never going to be a solution to the loss of industrial jobs, which is due to automation and not trade. It makes for good optics, but doesn't solve anything. It's unfortunate that Bernie is giving in to Trumpism on this.
JHan
(10,173 posts)It sounds sexy and people will lap it up, SMH.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)marybourg
(13,182 posts)heating plant or air conditioning manufacturers that are building units in the U.S. who are capable of supplying the types of units needed for government installations?
There is no current law that would allow us to exclude Carrier from bidding on gov't contracts on the basis of manufacturing in Mexico. And we cannot pass a law that would exclude only Carrier. And if we excluded all those manufacturing abroad to some degree, do we know that there actually is a U.S.-only HVAC equipment manufacturer? I suspect there isn't. Or are gov't installations going to do without heating and air conditioning plants.
Macho talk gets votes, apparently, but it doesn't keep the lights on.
jmowreader
(51,460 posts)If the feds construct a building that's more than one story high, Buy American rules dictate shopping at United Technologies' Otis Division.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)I don't think the laws, as they exist, allow the president to basically threaten a company with the loss of federal benefits for doing something legal and I don't think the republicans are going to make it so. This makes the president look like a mafia don leveraging benefits worth millions/billions for a political favor and I'm sure there are safeguards/checks and balances to prevent just this. What's next, Trump calling on corporations expecting legally guaranteed tax breaks to pad his job creation numbers or face the consequences? This is the type of stuff that we should be ready to impeach Trump for, not cheering him on to do.