2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumToni Morrison: Fear of losing white privilege led to Trump's election.
And she's right, because working class black people didn't respond to Trump's message. But white people did, from all economic backgrounds.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/toni-morrison-fear-of-losing-white-privilege-led-to-trumps-election_us_58330ee2e4b058ce7aac0964
The comfort of being naturally better than is hard to give up.
Toni Morrison has written a powerful essay in the aftermath of Donald Trumps election as president of the United States, and it gets right to the heart of why Trump won.
In a piece titled Mourning For Whiteness from the November 21 print issue of the New Yorker (published online Monday), the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist argues that Trump won due to the terror of privileged white men in the face of a rapidly diversifying country.
Under slave laws, the necessity for color rankings was obvious, but in America today, post-civil-rights legislation, white peoples conviction of their natural superiority is being lost, Morrison writes.
There are people of color everywhere, threatening to erase this long-understood definition of America. And what then? Another black President? A predominantly black Senate? Three black Supreme Court Justices? The threat is frightening.
SNIP
apcalc
(4,518 posts)But I still think the election was hacked, Exit poll data and pre-election polls had her winning. A few counties, like mine, where results are unverifiable,,,,
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)did vote for Trump.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)and far MORE white men voted for Trump than white women...I would add that far more white women voted for Obama than did white men, so let's keep things in perspective, OK?
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Women are fucked over in this system regardless of racial background.
That is because the white dudes want it that way in order to get sexual access and free domestic labor.
Just because the "majority" of white women who bothered to vote voted for Trump doesn't mean squat to me.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)and they don't have to worry, nearly as much, about their sons being killed by the police.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)not women.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)from male gender privilege, but they do benefit from white privilege and that's why their salaries are higher than black women's.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)and, btw, lowering salaries based on race is illegal. Anyone finding that discrepancy in their salary
has a very winnable case under the law.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)Black women make less than white women, so black women are at the bottom in salaries.
Winnable cases or not, white men make the highest salaries; then black men; then white women; and finally, black women.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)but beyond what we're already doing, I'm not sure what you would have people like me -- a non- rich white sixty something female -- do about it...Besides voting and acting in a fair and caring way, what are we supposed to do?...Wear sack clothqs and ashes? Pillory ourselves on a cross of white guilt?...I guess I'm just not sure what the point ol the constant, repetitive 'airing of unfairnesses" is..It's not, after all, like your talking to Free.Republic.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)or even white male privilege doesn't mean you yourself caused it.
But acknowledging it should open you to the idea that we need to find solutions and to recognize when it is happening.
In the case of the election, Trump voters have a median annual income higher than Hillary voters, even though Trump voters are more likely to live in less costly areas. And they voted for a candidate who was spouting racist rhetoric.
So it's logical to assume that the were responding to racism rather than to economic anxiety. If anyone should have supported Trump because of economic anxiety, it should have been the people who are financially the worst off -- the Clinton voters.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)but acknowledging that fact does not mean that it was the
SOLE reason why the election went the way it did....It played a part, yes, but to what extent? I don't know and neither do you, especially from this recent vantage point.
moriah
(8,312 posts)We still have the "white" privilege. Yes, we still have to deal with sexist bullshit, but we aren't generally called "welfare queens" or have people seem frightened when we get angry (dismissive, yes, but that's different than the perception of the "angry black woman" .
If nothing else, one can look to the history of the suffrage movement where some incredibly stupid women suggested giving black men the vote before giving it to white women was wrong. Look at the fact that while more white women get breast cancer, yet more black women die of it -- five a day. Look at how white women still on average make more per week than black men, and black women make less than that.
The situation is worse still for trans people of color.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Deranged orange animal. My biggest disappointment in a demographic to which I belong. I thought we would bury him in a landslide after that access Hollywood tape.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)Were the women voting for white male privilege? I think they voted to assert white supremacy over all those uppity minorities.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)I think this election was about more than race and bigotry...As I just posted, many Obama voters voted for Trump...If you want to see the links, I posted them in answer to Pwnmom's question.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)for such a bluntly racist and bigoted candidate. I'm with Morrison on this one. One need only consider the responses by white supremacists the world over to know how clearly Trump delivered the message.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)a racist voting for Obama?
Nitram
(24,611 posts)everybody else that they are not racist?
whathehell
(29,802 posts)in the service of your theory...Like most, I believe the outcome of the election is the result of many factors, dislike of elites, fear of terrorism, and economic insecurity being some of them.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)whathehell
(29,802 posts)that doesn't mean the fear irself is groundless.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)...terrorists is absolutely groundless. Perfect, textbook example of xenophobia/Islamophobia/racism.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)your attention, it doesn't mean it's the ONLY element.
I too would like life to be simple, but, unfortunately, It's not.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)I'm suggesting that race is an essential factor in the mix of reasons Trump voters voted for him. Anyone who voted for Trump knew that they were voting for a racist ticket, with concrete platform objectives the were racist by definition. If they could ignore that...
whathehell
(29,802 posts)that it is the overriding element in EVERY situation...Those who do subscribe to this view are having a very hard time explaining why so many Obama voters voted for Trump....It certainly doesn't fit the narrative.
katsy
(4,246 posts)I don't think the gop had much of a chance getting the WH considering the economic turmoil we were facing.
Also, mitt had pretty much killed his chances by making the middle class "the other" with his 47% video. PBO also wasn't facing the white hot hatred @ that time bcuz mitt really wasn't stoking racist & bigoted emotions like trump has.
trump managed to motivate racists & bigots & all the proof one needs is available by looking @ the punks attending his rally. Just watch for confederate flags, the full on engagement of racist nationalist groups. These people were pumped & I suspect these groups haven't had reason to even vote in a national election before.
The bigotry & racism has been overwhelming this election. Combined with trump's promise of economic protectionism and voter suppression may have flipped enuf electoral votes to trump.
It was a perfect hate fueled storm.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)It had little to do with her being a "Clinton." It had everything to do with her being a woman.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)...
Go figure.
TrishaJ
(858 posts)the "superiority" is clearly defined.
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)"Life ain't no crystal stair" for many. But Whiteness gives you a leg up in America. Period.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)and we're well our rights to say so, regardless of what Morrison is saying. Period.
BumRushDaShow
(142,386 posts)Hit the nail on the head!
I have been watching football (Eagles) this year. And I was shocked (thanks to decades of effort from the likes of Jesse Jackson and others) at the number of black head football coaches (and coordinators) AND (starting) black quarterbacks. It has been eye-opening given the days when there were little or none (and guys like Warren Moon were worshiped). Plenty of line backers, tackles, and even wide-outs, but no one calling the plays.
In industry after industry, we have had to fight for our rightful places based on merit after being denied solely due to skin color. Yet doing this has been promoted by the detractors and the media as someone "taking" someone else's (a white's) job and "rightful place" in society.
I.e., the "natural order" was disrupted.
However if one were to take this fantastical scenario all the way out to some far future, they would simply devolve into typical Euro-descended ethnic maelstroms, not unlike what you have seen historically throughout European history.
Eliminating us (POC) eliminates one facet of "competition" that they wouldn't have to deal with. We have been easy low-hanging fruit to attempt to remove in order to gain advantage. However many of us descend from folks who had much deeper roots in this country than most European-descendants who are here today. I.e., those whose families only arrived here post-Civil War - generally in the late 19th & early 20th centuries.
OnDoutside
(20,656 posts)uponit7771
(91,763 posts)... more harmed voter turnout.
If a person can't find some decent employment in this economy where the UE rate is in the 4s then they're fucked...
I don't believe for a second people are hurting to that degree with UE rate in the 4s
OnDoutside
(20,656 posts)country back from being bust and having to report to the Troika of the IMF, EU and ECB. Even though the ship had been righted, many people hadn't yet felt the impact of the upturn, and severely punished that Government. The parallels with you over there in the US is striking (and even with Brexit in the UK). People feel angry but don't know what they are angry at.
uponit7771
(91,763 posts)... the same thing that happened in the last century but FDR had a message in the US that pointed at the people who screwed things up and called them out on it.
I'm thinking calling DPutin out on his taking advantage of economic hurt would've been a better message than DPutin is crazy which his supporters seemed to think was an advantage and not a defect.
OnDoutside
(20,656 posts)those in governments have to be SEEN to go full metal jacket on those who are seen to have caused the problems, otherwise it leaves the door open for the far right and left to go down the populist route.
uponit7771
(91,763 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)as the numbers are still trickling in. the national numbers are expected to be very similar to obama 2012.
https://twitter.com/Redistrict
Nitram
(24,611 posts)Resentment that they could be wealthy if not for those minorities and immigrants the Democratic Party coddles. Trump could not have won on the votes of the economically disadvantaged alone.
OnDoutside
(20,656 posts)Election. The Government ran on a platform of "Let's keep the Recovery going", and in large parts of Dublin and other major cities like Cork you could see there were more cars on the road, traffic was building earlier than it had from the previous 5 years, and discretionary spend shops were starting to open again. However, out in the country towns and villages, they were saying "No Recovery here" because it hadn't yet reached them, and that's the story with the Rust Belt.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 24, 2016, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)
That's just lazy thinking.
OnDoutside
(20,656 posts)didn't have the feel good factor that others do. Then along comes Bozo the Clown and tells them that "only he can make America great again", and they fall for it.
Nitram
(24,611 posts)Exactly how demagogues gain power.
OnDoutside
(20,656 posts)disengagement with politics in so many Western countries, at pretty much the same time. The US isn't alone in this, by any stretch of the imagination.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)You need to stop confusing it with incontrovertible fact.
DemonGoddess
(5,123 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)White people fear lots of things.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)the sole province of "white people", wouldn't you?
jmg257
(11,996 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Yavin4
(36,391 posts)Technological change and globalization cannot be stopped politically. Diversity is the new norm.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)I wonder how that fits into her narrative?
In addition, being "better than" is not just about race, but gender as well, and since there were two whites on
the ballot, that may well have helped Trump.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2016, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)
that Obama had last time. I read that his win came from new voters in that handful of states, rather than Dems.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/why_did_some_white_obama_voters_for_trump.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/upshot/how-did-trump-win-over-so-many-obama-voters.html?_r=0
http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/11/obama-voters-for-trump/508292/
Not to mention being all over the televised news the week after the election.
pnwmom
(109,562 posts)They obviously did it in very different ways.
But Id say that Obama made a lot of voters feel good, even proud, about supporting an African-American.
Trump made them feel O.K. about their politically incorrect reservations about diversity, crime and immigration.
Clinton did something very bold that I dont think she got very much credit for: She challenged many white Americans to question implicit bias, and revived criminal justice as an issue. That may have been a bridge too far.
And none of this addresses the issue of sexism. Sexists (men and women) could have supported Obama but switched to Trump because they weren't comfortable with the idea of a woman leader.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)if you include monarchies. The attitudes are just plain STUPID.
whathehell
(29,802 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)It makes no sense that anyone who voted for obama would vote for the orange disgrace
Nitram
(24,611 posts)...was just the man to represent them.
jalan48
(14,399 posts)I've read humans are easier to control when they are fearful.
cilla4progress
(25,916 posts)I also have also been hearing that these Trump supporters think the economy and agenda should be focused primarily on helping them, and that in fact they need to step it up and make some effort to retool to meet the demands of the changing economy, albeit with help and support from the government. (Tom Friedman on Tom Ashbrook this morning - on point radio / NPR).
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)even if the something is as stupid as "I'm better because my skin has less melanin."
treestar
(82,383 posts)"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
~
LYNDON B. JOHNSON, 1960, remark to Bill Moyers, "What a Real President Was Like," Washington Post, 13 November 1988
spin
(17,493 posts)his experience would enable him to better create jobs. A number also mentioned that they strongly opposed illegal immigration. I'm sure that some backed Trump because says he strongly supports law enforcement and the military.
Still I will agree that the riots in Baltimore and the Blacks Lives Matter movement drove many to favor Trump.
The surprising thing for me was that Trump got the majority of votes in the electoral college. He campaigned as a total ass and insulted everybody. I seriously believe he really didn't want the job and was doing his best to insure he never got it. Still I might be wrong as he constantly says he hates losing.
One white lady I know initially supported Hillary but changed her mind over the abortion issue. She is a fundamental Christian.
One factor which is rarely mentioned is Hillary's position on gun control. She wanted to see another Federal Assault Weapons Ban passed and mentioned she thought Australian style gun control was worth considering. While that was a gun buy back program it was also mandatory and could be called confiscation. Like it or not there are at least 80,000,000 gun owners in this nation many who own "assault weapons such as the AR-15 or hi-capacity semi automatic rifles and handguns. In a close election the gun owner vote may tip the scales. Many show up at the polls to vote and to them it wouldn't matter in the least if Trump was a total asshole as long as he supported gun rights.
Plus we should not ignore Hillary's email scandal and the fact that many voters viewed her as untrustworthy. Donations to the Clinton Foundation and high speech fees for Hillary and BIll also fueled the suspicion of distrust.
Hillary also seemed to lack a vision. Much of her campaign was based on the fact that Trump was totally unqualified for the job while she had the experience. She obviously was right. Still voters wanted to try something different as this was a "change election." Hillary could not generate the enthusiasm that both Bernie, Trump and even Obama were able to. Far too many voters believed our nation is in decline and wanted to see a new approach.
Finally it is very difficult for any party to hold the White House after one party owns it for eight years.
I will totally agree that racism played a role in the results but it was one of many factors. How could Obama get elected twice if racism was the prime factor driving results in our nation? I believe Ovama would have won in a landslide against Trump if he could have ran this year.
I'm just watching Obama speaking at an awards ceremony. He definitely was charisma that Hillary lacks.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Obama is not "charismatic." I don't even think you know what the term means. I have NEVER been impressed with his "oratory," and I have seen and heard people who can belt out a speech. Obama is flat and boring as a speaker. Compare him with MLK, Jr., and the comparisons are laughably obvious. Obama is a lecturer, which he really was before going into politics. He is no orator, media hype back a decade ago notwithstanding.
Trump was literally created by the media. Google "Jeff Zucker" and maybe then you will know what really happened. It was not HRC's fault. Your problem with her is that she is female.
Ace Rothstein
(3,299 posts)whathehell
(29,802 posts)He is absolutely charismatic.
MyNameIsKhan
(2,205 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,443 posts)Coventina
(27,904 posts)pnwmom
(109,562 posts)allowing massive voter purges and changes in voter ID laws. Hispanic populations living in lower income areas were particularly affected.
7962
(11,841 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,299 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Fine, Toni, think what you want, but where you gonna make up those 60+ electoral votes in 2020?
Bob41213
(491 posts)Lotusflower70
(3,093 posts)I think the backlash was inevitable. We got 2 terms out of President Obama and that was historic. I think the United States wasn't quite ready for a woman to be President. A lot of us were but obviously not everyone. The Republicans were the resistance to another historic achievement.
TeamPooka
(25,276 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)As I am of reading it...
People who voted for Trump, did so out of a misguided belief that Trump, as a "buisnessman" and "outsider" would make things work better and bring jobs back, not out of some ridiculous notion that he will make America "whiter", or fear of encroaching "non whiteness".
I believe that people who think like this are sheltered, live in echo chambers, and don't talk to real people.
I truly believe that if Trump were exactly the same, but black, 99.9 percent of those same people still would have voted for him .
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Trump did better with Latino and African-American voters than Romney did.
7962
(11,841 posts)Although I notice you're one of the few trying to see things as they actually ARE.
One thing IMO, beat HRC; lack of interest by much of her base
quantumjunkie
(244 posts)like the establishment....in the eyes of the working class.
Hillary never campaigned how she was for people. She just said Trump was bad. Trump kept doign his meaningless chants about making america great -- giving a vision of hope and change which must have been appealing to the struggling whites.
She also didn't campaign much in swing states. Giving the impression to these working class folks that she didnt care.
But lets not forget though she won the popular vote.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)There are reasons that that fear resonated though, and it wasn't just about white privilege. It is absolutely loss avoidance though. Its not that these people believe that they have an unfair advantage, even though they do, its that they believe they have a right to what they have because they are good people and they earned it.
Now, we could quibble with that because some of these people can be pretty shitty, but it seems to me far more sensible to say "we aren't here to take your stuff. We're here to get you to join us so that we can all take back what should be ours," and by the way, you've been sold a crock of shit. Lets make the peddlers take it back," than to say "that's right, we're here for your white privilege!"
They got on board for Bernie, sure just handful but it would have been enough, even though he was preaching social justice and policies that would help the poor and minorities as well as the middle class the whole way, so it can be done. The millionaire class of news anchors and their masters and all the rest of the money in politics will not have us meddling with the primal forces of nature, but I'm for meddling anyway.
oasis
(51,705 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...working class POC don't care about economics. Also inherent in that narrative is the notion that Clinton didn't talk enough about economics or offer as much substance as Trump and that it was Clinton who played "identity politics," which is the complete opposite of reality. I expect Trump supporters to take reality and flip it on its head, but it's sad when DU posters do the same.
There was no excuse for voting for Trump, by far the most atrocious candidate in modern times.