Where the hell do the anti-GMO hysterics keep getting this?
"GMO's linked to dozens of diseases..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017244220
Where is this bullshit from?
Natural News?
immoderate
(20,885 posts)GMO crops have developed a following of Roundup resistant pests. So they bathe the crops in the stuff. It's a poison. Suppress the immune system -- and what happens?
Also note that effects of ingesting GMO foods are widely suspect in independent studies. Industry studies, none of which went for more than 90 days, are the only ones considered by agencies. For a good, but more developed parallel, see fracking.
--imm
Archae
(46,810 posts)And this time actually answer my question, not the usual hysterics from anti-GMO ditwits like Mike Adams.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)And you can feel free to refute anything I said, -- if you can.
--imm
DetlefK
(16,456 posts)He doesn't have to refute anything. You say it, you prove it.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
DetlefK
(16,456 posts)Never mess with a wise-ass.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)I can show you similar claims about the safety of fracking and CO2 proliferation. Is your rule, "If immoderate can't prove it's dangerous, then it must be safe?" I have some Florida coastline for you, -- cheap.
My point is there are no long term studies that show safety. The independent studies that show problems are quickly challenged by apologists, from think tanks. Where have we seen that before?
--imm
DetlefK
(16,456 posts)I'm starting to notice something peculiar about DU: You can spot conspiracy-theorists by their refusal to provide sources for their claims. In other news, someone heard on the wires that people with US-army uniforms are fighting in Ukraine.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)Unless you can find one.
Off hand, I can cite a few studies that raise suspicions:
http://gmojudycarman.org/new-study-shows-that-animals-are-seriously-harmed-by-gm-feed/
http://www.enveurope.com/content/26/1/14
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2898%2905860-7/abstract
These studies raise questions that are, so far, only addressed by industry supported think tanks, and their paid apologists. (They teach the controversy, dispute fine points of methodology, and avoid the main issues. Tobacco lawyers.)
I have been accused of being a conspiracy-theorist frequently, -- by science deniers who are "skeptics" about global warming, and pollution from fracking. Are you one of those "skeptics" who rely on corporate dogma?
Where are the long term studies that indicate GMO safety? Beuhler??
--imm
NickB79
(19,625 posts)The first one used pigs supposedly fed identical diets, only one being GM and the other non-GM feed, but in the comments:
Yet, aflatoxins are poisons caused by mold. This study fed GE corn contaminated with aflatoxins to the GE-fed hogs. The non-GE-fed hogs didnt have aflatoxins in their feed. Also, the GE-fed hogs had over double the amount of fumonisins than the non-GE-fed hogs. Fumonisins are another toxin, caused by fungi.
So they were not fed identical diets.
Your second link was to an article later retracted: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-seralini-gmo-study-retraction-and-response-to-critics/
Your third link also has potential shortcomings: http://gmopundit2.blogspot.com/2005/11/rats-fed-bad-diets-have-lots-of.html
Unfortunately, these differences have notbeen examined further by analysis of anextended range of lines, for evidence on whether these differences are attributable to the genetic modification or to natural variations.
Another shortcoming of the study is that the diets were protein deficient; they contained only 6% protein by weight. There is convincing evidence that short-term protein stress and starvation impair the growth rate, development, hepatic metabolism, and immune function of rats. Ewen and Pusztai say that the significant differences between diet groups invariables such as mucosalthickness or crypt length are evidence of the biological effects of the GM foods.
Such a claim is easy to make but difficult to prove, because no consistent patterns of changes were observed in the study.
Ingestion of potatoes may be associated with several adaptive changes in the gut because of the low digestibility of raw or partly refined potato starch. In rats caecal hypertrophy is a common response to short-term feeding of various poorly digestible carbohydrates, such as raw potatostarch. A physiological response of this nature is probably of little toxicological significance. Dose -response studies would
have helped in the assessment of consistency of response.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)We can surely agree that more studies are needed, and the questions are not answered.
The"protein" objections in Pusztai's experiments ignore that the control groups were not undernourished.
--imm
Fred Friendlier
(81 posts)That is like believing in witchcraft, like using eye of newt to ward off syphilis.
When you look beyond the self serving hype at the actual data, Seralini showed that statistical analysis works and that there is no long term harm from feeding both GMO seeds and Roundup tainted water to rats.
The anti science people show an otherwise admirable persistence, but the shame is they refuse to put their talents to good use on a worth while project.
And I have to say that as toxic as the antic science crowd is over at the Daily Kos they at least have given up on the forlorn hope that the GMO foods are directly toxic and have fallen back on claims that they are somehow indirectly connected to some kind of harm. Maybe. So we should order the Egyptian wing of the Springfield Museum burned as a precaution.
Archae
(46,810 posts)Just where are GMO's "linked" to dozens of diseases?
unrepentant progress
(611 posts)And it's 22 diseases.
http://www.organic-systems.org/journal/92/JOS_Volume-9_Number-2_Nov_2014-Swanson-et-al.pdf
But wait! It's the fertilizer glyphosphate that's supposedly doing the damage, and increased glyphosphate use correlates with increased use of GM crops, therefore GM crops are killers! It makes perfect sense.
A -> B
A ^ C
QED: C -> B
Fred Friendlier
(81 posts)These guys are exactly like Seneff, with her over wrought claims Roundup causes Parkinson's Disease and that half our children will be autistic by 2050.
It would be useful for them to run an actual analysis on their data and estimate how many spurious correlations they are likely to pull out of the muck under the conditions they use.
In Seralini's original paper, he measures a metric feltchton of parameters and fishes out 40 that he claims are significant at the (p < 0.05) level. Setting aside the fact that this criterion is known to be pretty sloppy, that leaves him with an expectation of 25 +/- 7 spurious results. He builds his entire pyramid of global death on a foundation of about 15 actual results (and plausibly as few as 8) in a context where he doesn't know which 15 of those 40 numbers are real and which 25 are noise and mean nothing.