A mind grenade for the religious minded when we talk...

[happyaccident]

If there was no afterlife, would you still believe in god? I don't even need the answer, the point is to get them thinking about WHY they have faith, which I consider the primary weakness and biggest lie mankind has ever told themselves. This is my first discussion thread so hello and thanks for this space.

[Sherman A1]

1. An interesting question

And interesting point.

[flying_wahini]

2. Good question - remove the bait.

Otherwise there is no bait to religion. LOL!

[Farmer-Rick]

3. Funny you should say that.

The death of a loved one forced me to confront the truth of atheism and the stupefying idiocy of religion.

Yet, my daughter has moved closer to a belief in a god because of the death. It gives her hope of seeing our loved one again.

I'm just tired of the constant lies that a belief in a god requires. It may hurt to know I've lost them forever but at least it's the truth.

[happyaccident]

9. I don't question peoples beliefs like I used to

The older I get the more compassion and empathy I have. Life can be so hard sometimes that I don't feel I can help take something away which could be needed. Religions promise eternal bliss or endless agony.... I see the "faithful" as just more victims. I think the hardest thing for some people to handle is non-existence. However, you don't have to believe in a god or religion to believe in an afterlife. There's some interesting reincarnation threads over in Creative speculation. As a gardener and atheist philosopher I also like the philosophy of Epicurus which I consider kinder and more pleasant than those grumpy stoics. Happy Summer Solstice!!!!!

[Susan Calvin]

13. I assume I'm not going to exist after I die .

It is the most reasonable assumption. That doesn't mean I can imagine it. I can't. I've tried. I can't. But I assume it is what is going to happen.

[Farmer-Rick]

19. I tried to get my head around not existing and I can't imagine it.

But obviously I didn't exist before I was born, so I know what it is like. It didn't hurt, it didn't feel like anything. So, I'm not too worried about it.

[FiveGoodMen]

27. Exactly the way I feel about it.

[reACTIONary]

23. I would compare it to ...

... a dreamless sleep. I can imagine that and (note scare quotes) even "experience" it.

[DavidDvorkin]

4. Historically, Judaism did not talk about the afterlife

I wasn't brought up to consider it a factor. My parents were religious without that.

[happyaccident]

7. Raised roman catholic, 8 years of school

The afterlife (mostly hell) was almost all they talked about. I had jewish friends growing up, I found their ability to argue about different tenets of their religion a welcome change from the fear and control games the catholics used on me. I wonder how many atheists here used to be catholic?

[DavidDvorkin]

8. In the Old Testament, punishment happens in this life

Sometimes instantaneously and brutally.

My parents believed in God and the tenets of their faith because anything else was unthinkable.

[Susan Calvin]

14. I have always said that if I was gonna be religious I would be Jewish.

I just like everything I know about it.

Except the bad things people have done with and to it, one more than the other, of course.

[DavidDvorkin]

15. Having grown up in it

I can't imagine going back into it. It's not superior to other religions, just different. It has plenty of its own inherent badness.

[Susan Calvin]

20. I'm sure you're right.

I think it's the traditions I liked more than the actual Bible. And I just adored Leo Rosten's The Joy of Yiddish.

[customerserviceguy]

5. They would fight

your question's premise about an afterlife just as vigorously as they would defend the existence of their invisible skyfather.

[Susan Calvin]

12. That is interesting.

I don't consider anything unknowable. I just consider it not known yet. How did he define unknowable?

[happyaccident]

18. Thank you so much for that wisdom

It fits with how I deal with existence.I read Castanedas first book years ago, I just bought it to read again. after 25 years it should be interesting. I am half southwestern native american and am interested in exploring my ancestry. I have bits and pieces from my grandmother, she is, as she says " a proud wetback" I love my aboo ("abuela&quot and respect and miss my heritage. Thank you Freelancer(cool name) for your reply, after I read Castaneda's first I may holler back. Have an excellent Solstice!

[reACTIONary]

24. I'm not saying it isn't worth reading, but...

... be aware that the book is a fraud. Read it as one would read The Prophet.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

[Susan Calvin]

21. Thanks for the quotes.

I still don't buy his definition of unknowable. It's just gibberish to me .

[reACTIONary]

25. Be aware that...

... be aware that the book is a fraud.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

[Susan Calvin]

11. I can tell you from personal experience that's not gonna work for everybody.

My dad was straight up as to why he was religious. The afterlife. He told me when I was ready to die I would convert. Nope.

[Iggo]

26. They refuse to even consider it.

I've tried it here, and in real life.

"Just assume, for the sake of argument, that there's no god."

They won't do it. (Well, no one has yet, for me anyway.)

EDIT: The instance of it happening here at DU, if I remember correctly, arose from a theist imploring me to at least consider that there might be a god, and his/her refusal to reciprocate. I wish I remembered who it was. Not one of the Gang Of Four, but definitely one of their apologists. Gettin' old. Can't remember shit.