Do you HATE not believing in hell anymore?

[Brainstormy]

this week I really do. Haven't been this depressed since, oh, last November 8th.

[Ron Obvious]

1. I never did believe it.

I wouldn't wish eternal suffering on anyone, not even the worst human being on earth (e.g. Ted Bundy, Hitler).

[Solly Mack]

2. No

I get both angry and disgusted that people are reduced to wishing for the make-believe to solve problems, get them out of misery, or for justice.

There's a scene in "The Color Purple" where Sofia is confronting Celie about telling Harpo to "beat her" (Sofia) for not being an obedient wife.

Celie gets regularly beat-up by Mister (her own husband).

Celie tells Sofia that this life will be over soon and heaven is forever - or words to that effect. Meaning, what's suffering on earth when there is paradise awaiting you once you're dead.

Sofia told Celie she needs to bash Mister over the head and worry about heaven later.

Well, people need to bash injustice over the head now and worry about heaven and hell later.

Celie was beaten down and broken. She had no means of escape and no means to defend herself - because she doesn't know her own worth or how to defend herself. But she's been sold a bill of goods that tells her to endure all the injustices done to her because one day - she will be in heaven.

And that attitude both angers me and disgust me. Not that Celie, per se, thinks that way - but that people told her she should think that way. People that could have helped her along the way but instead taught her to endure the injustices of life because - heaven.

While it does cause me to bristle that anyone expresses the "one day they'll stand before God" thinking - because they have now relegated all justice and the righting of wrongs to some mythical being instead of trying to make the world they live in better - I also feel sorry for those who think there is no other way out for them (because no one stopped to help them and instead sold them a false bill of goods as a salve to their problems). I am angry someone taught them to think that way, disgusted they do think that way, and so incredibly saddened and angry that people cling to such thinking.

It is a measure of how helpless people become - there is no relief, no justice, no one to help - so all they have is this hope of justice and release in death...and some pie in the sky paradise that absolutely no one can prove exist.

And people shouldn't be brought so low - we should be helping people so they aren't brought so low.


Same with hell - like it's the only justice people can see happening because there is no justice on earth. Why isn't there justice on earth? Why not seek justice in the here and now? Why tell people who need relief that hell will get their enemies and heaven will be their reward for meekly accepting abuse on earth?

WTF would anyone tell someone to meekly accept the bad for some reward after they are dead? How sick is that?

So, no - I don't hate not believing in heaven or hell. I hate that people are taught to endure injustices and abuses because there's a better life awaiting them ONCE THEY ARE DEAD.

Sure, there's justice and beauty and fairness and a chance - but you hafta be dead to attain it.

Because ain't no one going to help you while you're alive. (apparently) No one is going to fight for justice while you're alive. (apparently)

People are just going to leave it all up to some promises without any proof that they were taught - and endure all the bad until then?

How fucked up is that?

People better start seeking justice/fairness/the good while they are alive and think of heaven & hell later. (if they must think of heaven or hell at all)


I was a camp counselor many years ago during my teen years. One of my charges was a victim of rape by her mother's boyfriend. This was discovered while the child was at camp. I told the woman in charge of the camp and she told me not to worry about the child's body but to pray for her soul because this life is hard and heaven is better.

I ignored that ignorance and called the police.

But her saying that to me left its mark. You do what's right and you help save the lives of people while they are alive. You fight for justice while you're alive. Because that's the only justice that people will ever see. Don't yield your power to something you can't see or prove in hopes your misery will be over one day because you're dead - or that those who harm you will get theirs once they are dead.

Fight for people now. For what what is right now. Don't endure the bad because someone told you a better life awaits once you're dead or that hell will get the bad people after death.

Make the world you live in better instead of dreaming about a place you can't prove exist. Stop looking for justice from the sky - work for it in the here and now.


This isn't directed at you, Brainstormy. This rant is simply an answer to the question you posed.

[Brainstormy]

5. Thank you.

I read your post three times. Just what I needed.

[Solly Mack]

7. I get I'm a little heated on the subject. I do realize that about myself.

But then I think of all the harm humans inflict on other humans - especially those weaker, poorer, and without any real power - and I get so angry.

People causing pain and suffering for other people and then the victims being told to look skyward for justice or relief instead of people working together to right wrongs and seek justice in the here and now.

I need to stop now. lol

You're welcome.

[Cartoonist]

9. Nice posts

I like that you don't hold back.

[Solly Mack]

11. I do hold back. Just rarely in this group.

[Binkie The Clown]

3. Even before I became an atheist, I figured if god was all merciful then Hitler went to heaven too.

I never did believe in hell. A loving parent wouldn't lock their child in a dungeon for eternity for stealing cookies, and supposedly god was the ultimate loving parent. It followed, as far as I was concerned, that hell couldn't exist even if god was real. Especially if god was real and was that loving, merciful, compassionate, etc. You punish a child so that they will learn and improve. Eternal punishment is not for learning or improvement, it's nothing other than simple, primitive vengeance. Thus, if god is real then Hitler went to heaven, no matter how that offends my human desire for vengeance.

[Brainstormy]

6. I completely agree, but

my human desire for vengeance, as you put it, is really strong today. Thank you for the post. Very much.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

4. I don't believe in heaven OR hell.

[Duppers]

8. Like the since Jan. 20? Yep.

[Cartoonist]

10. Giving up hell

Once I stopped beliving in God and his eternal dungeon, I finally attained free will. What believers call free will is actually duress.

[trotsky]

12. Even when I feel it would be nice if assholes would ALWAYS get what they deserve...

I can't accept the notion of eternal punishment for finite transgressions.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. Nope.

I can't say I ever really believed in it to begin with. Besides, if God could create a place of fantastic and eternal Clive Barker-esque punishments for people who do bad things, he certainly could have just prevented people from doing bad things. Or not even created people who do bad things.