An Atheist Mothers Depressing Journey With the Boy Scouts

[NeoGreen]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/27/an-atheist-mothers-depressing-journey-with-the-boy-scouts/

An Atheist Mother’s Depressing Journey With the Boy Scouts
July 27, 2017 by Hemant Mehta

After moving to a new city, Kate Abbott wanted to help her 8-year-old son Henry find a new group of friends, and she figured the Boy Scouts would be a perfect place to make that happen. They met with a local den leader, bought the requisite clothing and equipment, and dove right into the Cub Scout handbook.

That when she realized belief in God was a requirement for the Scouts.

Kate wasn’t aware of this before. And she wondered if there was a way to work around it. She and her husband weren’t religious and they were raising their son without religion. Since the den seemed fairly liberal, couldn’t she prove her son was “reverent” in a non-religious way?

She tells the story in an essay at Longreads:

It’s perfectly legal for them to discriminate based on a lack of religion. But is it moral? Is it moral to exclude anyone, much less children, based on their religious beliefs? Of course not. So why should it be moral to exclude children on their lack of religious beliefs? Would it be moral for my son to hide and lie about his personal beliefs just to be in a club? I can’t think of anything less moral (or what I think of as Scout-like) than lying about what you believe to be right.

You would think the Scouts would welcome an honest atheist who genuinely wants everything the Scouts offer (minus the religious bits), but they have a long history of excluding people who don’t meet their requirements perfectly. It’s a mistake that has put them in an existential crisis before and they still haven’t learned their lesson.

I just want to add a few points about the specific BSA rules and guideline in regards to the requirement for a "belief in god":

Excerpt:

CHARTER AND BYLAWS OF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA (2014)

ARTICLE IX. POLICIES AND DEFINITIONS - POLICIES
Section 1.

...

Activities
Clause 2.
The activities of the members of the Boy Scouts of America shall be carried on under conditions which show respect to the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion, as required by the twelfth point of the Scout Law, reading,
“Reverent:
1) A Scout is reverent toward God,
2) He is faithful in his religious duties,
3) He respects the beliefs of others.”

Freedom
Clause 3.
In no case where a unit is connected with a church or other distinctively religious organization shall members of other denominations or faith be required, because of their membership in the unit, to take part in or observe a religious ceremony distinctly unique to that organization or church.

and,

BSA Guide to Advancement - BSA Publication 33088 (2015), Page 39

5.0.5.0 Religious Principles

The Boy Scouts of America does not define what constitutes belief in God or practice of religion. Neither does the BSA require membership in a religious organization or association for membership in the movement. If a Scout does not belong to a religious organization or association, then his parent(s) or guardian(s) will be considered responsible for his religious training.

My interpretation is that since there is no BSA prescribed definition of "god" there is no metric upon which any agent of the BSA may reject any child's participation as long as he/she is adhering to their parent's/guardian's teachings (as defined by the parent/guardian, not the BSA or any other institution).


Some quotes for A historical perspective:

“We are not a (social) club or a Sunday school class, but a school of the woods.”
Sir Robert Baden-Powell

“The religion of a man is not the creed he professes but his life - what he acts upon and knows of life and his duty in it. A bad man who believes in a creed is no more religious than the good man who does not.”
Sir Robert Baden-Powell

"School of the woods", has always been my guiding principle and focus while I and my son have participated in scouting.

[Jokerman]

1. The local troop leaders can be the real problem.

My troop was led by fundie whackjobs and the meetings were held in their church.

I was interrogated by the leaders as to my baptism. When they found out my family was not religious and I had never been baptized they instructed the other boys to bully and ostracize me until I quit.

[trotsky]

2. Yeah it varies from troop to troop that's for sure.

Supposedly there are some that try to keep secular. But officially, the scouts mandate theism. So my son was never able to join.

[NeoGreen]

3. Yeah, it really depends on the unit...

...and the adults running the show.

As a scout I was always in a Troop that was chartered by a local Fire Company, never a church.

Plus, when my son joined, I volunteered to be the treasurer.
I did a good job and, 2-years in, I was elected to be Committee Chair.

The neat thing about being Chair, is you have the following duties:

Excerpt From the BSA - Troop Committee Guidebook – Chapter 4 (page 14)
“Duties of the Troop Committee Chair"
• Organize the committee to see that all functions are delegated, coordinated, and completed.
• Maintain a close relationship with the chartered organization representative and the Scoutmaster.
• Interpret national and local policies to the troop.
• Prepare troop committee meeting agendas.
• Call, preside over, and promote attendance at attendance at monthly troop committee meetings and any special meetings that may be called.
(snip)

The "interpret policies" clause is only listed in the chair's duties. No other adult has that duty listed within the unit's organization.
Not even the COR, to whom the chair reports.

Consequently, in "my" unit, no one was asked about their religion or orientation while I was chair.
If anyone asked about it, my answer was that we were chartered by a local fire company and since they could not discriminate neither shall the troop.

In my tenure as chair, and prior to the 2010/2013/2015 BSA policy changes, there was at least one gay scout (he came out after he started college) and at least one atheist who attained the rank of eagle.

And we spent a lot of time in the woods.

[Nay]

4. It varies by troop, for sure. 25 years ago in a very southern state, my son was a

Cub Scout. We're totally non-religious. We had inquired beforehand about the religious requirement and those who ran that troop didn't give a hoot about enforcing any religious stuff, so we were fine with him belonging to that troop. I also ran some of the meetings and prepared the program/crafts for the boys and never had a problem with anyone.

[Gore1FL]

5. I spent 7 years in the BSA as an adult leader.

My "God" was the one Sagan Described in the following quote:

“The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard, who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by 'God,' one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.”

As long as I get to define what God is (and by the rules, I do), then the laws of nature is my God.

[NeoGreen]

7. Your broad brush leads me to guess that you don't have any...

...direct experience with a BSA unit, or scouting activity in general:

Here is a visual list of the primary activities in scouting:



Show me the merit badge for command and control, following orders, unit cohesion, or chain of command?

Does does Nature fit in with a military mindset?

Is Bird Study merit badge designed to indoctrinate scouts on how to conduct communication by carrier pigeon?

How about Soil and Water Conservation,

Is this merit badge earned before or after you bomb the farmers field?

And is Citizenship in the Community

a treatise on how to set up local puppet governments?

A quote from Baden-Powell in regards to applying military discipline in scouting:

“As the camping season is now upon us, I may say that one or two of the camps which I have already seen have been unfortunately on wrong lines, though others were very satisfactory. I strongly advise small camps of about half a dozen Patrols; each Patrol in a separate tent and on separate ground (as suggested in Scouting for Boys), so that the Scouts do not feel themselves to be part of a big herd, but members of independent responsible units.

Large camps prevent scout-work and necessitate military training; and one which I visited the other day, though exceedingly well carried out as a bit of Army organization, appealed to me very little, because not only was it entirely on military lines, but the Patrols — the essence of our system — were broken up to fit the members into the tents. Patrols should be kept intact under all circumstances. ”

Scouting seeks to develop citizenship (not patriotism) and individual growth (not military discipline).

If you dislike is specific to the BSA, then maybe you could look into BPSA (https://www.bpsa-us.org/).

[NeoGreen]

9. No insult taken...

...and I enjoy Scouting, of which the BSA is only one outlet (which has many flaws in of itself) which provides a useful conduit for scouting in general.

However, the premise:

If there is no connection between scouting and the military, then why are Eagle Scouts, Quartermaster Award Sea Scouts and Gold Award Girl Scouts pre-approved for promotion to the rank of E-2 in the military, just like graduates of ROTC programs?

Is flawed, first since the ROTC program is specifically for training of military officers (by explicit design), and is not a program for enlisted personal, and in addition to the awards you mention above, individuals who have completed one or two years of college also receive promotion to E2 and E3 upon completion of basic training. So therefore, by the logic applied above, all persons with a year or two of college credit have received sub rosa military training.

If an external organization, military or otherwise, deems it worthwhile to promote someone who has earned any the the awards above, it does not mean that scouting is providing training explicitly or implicitly for those organizations (military or otherwise).

Are all EMT trainees at my local fire department receiving military training just because those skills have application in the military?

I'll take the BPSA at their word:

The Baden-Powell Service Association (BPSA) was formed in the U.S. in 2006 as an independent and traditional-style scouting association. The principles and methods originally drafted by Robert Baden-Powell in 1907 have been developed and refined in scout associations around the world. BPSA's program harkens back to the origins of scouting: promoting self-reliance, good citizenship, training in habits of observation, and loyalty. Our badgework and program are simple, our uniform is minimal. We teach real outdoor skills and engage in adventures, campouts, and community-building. Service is one of our core tenets, as we create a culture where children and adults ask, "How can we help?"

And in the introduction to their Rover Handbook:

The training scheme devised by Baden-Powell is based on using the natural desires of young people as a guide to the activities that will attract and hold them. The appeal of true Scouting has always been to that element of the outdoorsman, pioneer, and explorer, which is part of our nature, and is at its most evident in youth. Hence the significance of the opening sequence of BP’s “Explanation of Scouting” in Scouting for Boys:

“By the term ‘Scouting’ is meant the work and attributes of backwoodsmen, explorers and frontiersmen.”

Scouting is an outdoor movement and that is part of its character.

As far as the uniform goes, is everyone who wears a uniform for work secretly, or overtly, receiving military training, or aligned with military principles? Is a nurse or doctor who wears their professions prescribed "uniform" inherently militaristic?

By being a veteran, does that a priori taint everything you do later in life as owing to, or specifically promoting a military or militaristic approach? Even when you strive to do otherwise?

From BPSA's Introduction to Traditional Scouting

Why Traditional Scouting?
During the Boer War, Robert Baden-Powell (“B-P”) was the commander of British forces—and the British civilian population—in the besieged city of Mafeking. Through leadership, courage, and cleverness, B-P successfully defended Mafeking until the siege was lifted, and returned home to England a hero. During the siege, boys had acted as couriers in the city, and B-P had been impressed with their courage and service. On his return to England, he was disturbed to find many boys reading his book, Aids to Scouting for NCOs & Men. He had intended that book for soldiers, not boys, and thought the material was inappropriate for youth. His experience at Mafeking taught him that youth were capable of much more than most of society realized, and so he decided to rewrite Aids to Scouting with boys in mind. He wanted to take the best aspect of the military—selfless service—and train boys to be of service not for war, but for civilian life.

They would be “peace scouts” and the book would emphasize the techniques of backwoodsmen and explorers rather than soldiers. He also had an idea that it could be done in a way that was fun, so that the boys often didn’t even realize it was training. He led a camping experiment with boys on Brownsea Island in August 1907, wrote Scouting for Boys (published in 1908), and the Scouting movement was born.

B-P continued to refine his teaching methods until his death in 1941. The goal of his system was, and still is, to teach better citizenship through games and outdoor activities.

The ideas may have come from military service, but the program was never meant to be a preparation for military service.

In the BSA there are 3 merit badges focused on Citizenship:

Community, Nation and World, and all are required to earn the highest BSA rank of Eagle.

Please show me the requirements for the Patriotism merit badge, because up til now, I have never seen the like.

[Lordquinton]

11. It's both

Baiden Powell is looked up to and his flaws are often overlooked. In my area the the reverence he was paid was often turned farsecal. Our troop was in a school and was pretty independent, and one of the moms was the scoot master for a while. I actually took a leave of absence when someone brought in the local Christ the King church for whatever reason.

What both of you are saying is correct, and the presence of a civics badge doesn't override all the para-military (for lack of a better term) aspects.