Does donating to an organization that oppresses women and lgbt people make one complicit?

[beam me up scottie]

Do good works outweigh bad ones? I don't believe that helping the less fortunate can make up for actively working to restrict human rights.

What do you think?








*Standard Disclaimer: this is posted in the Atheists and Agnostics group which is a safe haven where we can discuss religion and its effects on society.

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	Yes, financially supporting such an organization makes one complicit
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	No, they can't be considered complicit (please explain why not)
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[mahatmakanejeeves]

1. I shop at the local Catholic Charities thrift store.

I don't expect perfection from others when it does not exist in me.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A3-5&version=KJV

Matthew 7:3-5 King James Version (KJV)

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

(I don't mean that "beam me up scottie" is a hypocrite. I'm just quoting scripture.)

ETA: they have the poorest clientele of any thrift store in my fair city. If you need clothes and you have no money, you can get clothes there for nothing. If you need food, you can get food at the soup kitchen for nothing. I'd say their good works count for something.

[Duppers]

2. Quoting scripture here, in our Atheist forum.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

4. I'm "none of the above." I'd find some verse about irony, but I think 45 has used them all up. NT

[beam me up scottie]

8. Then why are you posting in this group?

Do you go into other groups for minorities and lecture them from a privileged perspective?

[beam me up scottie]

6. Right?

[Duppers]

16. Good one. ;)

[beam me up scottie]

5. I try not to contribute to organizations that use my money to restrict my rights or those of others.

I don't expect others to feel as strongly about human rights as I do so claiming I 'expect perfection' is a straw man.

And why would I think a book that advocates slavery, rape, murder and genocide is an acceptable moral guide? You do realize that the bible also instructs its followers on how to deal with witches:

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Gay people:

If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Mediums and Fortune tellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Adulterers:

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Loose women:

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21: 9 NAB)

People who prefer other gods:

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Infidels:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

This is the Atheists and Agnostics group, perhaps you should check your scripture at the door, we're not buying what the 'Bible Gateway' is selling.

[Cartoonist]

20. That Leviticus guy sure has a problem.

I nominate him for the sickest author of the Bible. That his contribution is not erased from that book is tacit approval of his hate.

[Iggo]

21. There is only one author.

Inspired word of god, kiddies.

If it's sick, god's sick.

[trotsky]

19. I don't expect perfection from others, either.

But I DO expect them to refrain from actively opposing the rights of women and the LGBTQIA* community.

The line must be drawn somewhere.

[Duppers]

3. There are plenty of secular orgs to donate to.

I pass up any with a religious affiliation.

[beam me up scottie]

7. I do as well.

I don't have a lot of extra cash so I'm very choosy about where I donate.

I try to donate to Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, FFRF, and Doctors without Borders whenever I can.

[Heddi]

9. Yes, and this is why I don't donate to or shop at Salvation Army thrift stores

I am a thrift store QUEEN. Love them. Go nearly every weekend. And when we downsize things everything that is useable is donated -- we don't throw away hardly anything.

But my donations DO NOT go to Salvation Army, and neither does my money. Their hateful approach to gays & lesbians sickens me, and I have not given a dime to them for years.

Typically, we donate / shop at a local thrift store run by and for Vietnam Veterans as well as some other locally owned, non-religiously affiliated. Also the Vietnam Veterans one will come and pick up big items from your house if you need them to.

[beam me up scottie]

10. Exactly! The Salvation Army is one of the worst when it comes to promoting intolerance.

It's not easy finding local secular charities here in the Buy-Bull belt but to me it's worth the extra effort to make sure whatever I donate doesn't support bigotry. My favourite thrift store is run by two liberal women who donate clothing to women's shelters so I'm more than happy to give them my business.

[trotsky]

18. Yup, same here.

We go to (and donate to) a thrift store that supports kids and adults with developmental disabilities. No church affiliation whatsoever. The charities are out there - Christians who truly care need to make a choice: what's more important, their church, or helping people?

[progressoid]

24. Sadly, we don't have many secular thrift shops around here.

Most recent one to open up is run by the Mormons.

[defacto7]

11. I'll throw a twist in here for curiosity sake...

How about if one works for an organization that oppresses women and lgbt people could that make one complicit? Not working to promote, just hired for work, eg. do plumbing in an evangelical church, or play the piano, or janitorial, or printing services.... Maybe it's a silly question in a way but as I think about this question of support for oppressive organizations, I wonder if any business one does could be supportive in a round about way even if the money flow goes the other way. Then could they sue someone for not doing the plumbing because you are discriminatory?

[beam me up scottie]

12. Good question.

I think that doing work like you cited isn't necessarily an endorsement of the organization's policies while giving them money is. Businesspeople have to earn a living and while it would be nice to pick and choose one's customers it's not very practical. And yes, if you refused you could be sued for discrimination in some states.

[defacto7]

13. I agree...

But then they may not want to do business with atheists. Would one be supportive if they kept their atheism hidden to keep business? It's a chance one takes I suppose.. they get us to hide our position to make a buck... they get to proselytize.
Yay? Nay?

[beam me up scottie]

14. Yep. I've learned to keep my atheism to myself at work.

It sucks but here in the bible belt you need to pick your battles. For decades we were the least trusted minority in this country but Muslims recently took our spot at the top of the list. So yay for us I guess.

We're number two! We're number two!

[defacto7]

15. Well just for the record...

my number is 666. At least that's what I'm told. All our kind got the mark!! and atheist spelled backward spells satan! When I do plumbing in a church I make both sides hot!

[beam me up scottie]

22. Ha ha! I love it!

[OriginalGeek]

23. There are people at my work who move quietly away from me

If it starts storming outside. They know that lightning is gonna get us. I tell em to just wear rubber soled shoes...I don't think they appreciate the implication that their god is so easily thwarted.

[trotsky]

17. Particularly when there are more tolerant Christian churches.

To any dupe still defending the RCC at this point I would only ask:

Does overpopulation play a role in poverty and war?

It's a yes/no question. The answer, of course, is yes. But a devoted Catholic apologist can't answer, or will minimize the relationship, because it perfectly illustrates the core conflict between their church and reality.

[Act_of_Reparation]

27. Yeah, but none of them are the One True Church.

So that's, like, a huge problem amirite?

[trotsky]

28. The hugest! n/t

[edhopper]

25. Is the Pope Catholic?

somebody had to go there.

[Panich52]

26. Yep. Same logic keeps me as far from Walmarts as I can manage