When I was young I went to bible classes that my public grammar school offered...

[Kablooie]

I lived in conservative Orange County California.

To take the classes you had to have a signed note from your parents and the classes were off the school property at a church next door. Students that did not wish to go to bible class were given alternate activities to do in the class for the hour once a week.

To me this seems like a reasonable way to offer something that some parents wanted without intruding on the rights of any who had different views even though it was offered by a public school.

I was wondering what others here thought about this.
Should the subject of bible classes be kept out of the public school curriculum altogether or should there be some concessions to parents that want this sort of thing?

...

I'm posting it here in the atheist forum because I'd like the opinion of people who are not biased by personal interest in the bible biasing their views.

[uriel1972]

1. If people want..

to teach their religion to their children, they should not expect a public school to do so.
I don't agree with pushing religion on children in any case, but I can't stop parents from doing so.
The only way christianity should have a place in public schools is part of a comparative religion class where many religions are examined, and compared.
That's as far as I will go. Parents do your own brainwashing, don't expect me to be your accomplice.

[PoliticAverse]

2. It sounds like your public school didn't really "offer" the bible classes...

they just allowed students to leave the school to attend them. We had a similar system in
New York City (we used to call it "release time&quot . One afternoon a week and we had to
walk a good distance to a church school to attend the class.

[trotsky]

4. Yep grew up doing a similar thing in rural Minnesota.

Also called "release time." District buses (I wonder how that worked!) shuttled us to our respective churches on Thursday mornings for even more religious indoctrination.

[Turbineguy]

3. We had that in the Netherlands.

Same setup. It was entirely voluntary.It was called Catechism or "kattebak" (translation "catbox&quot . Since the Lady who taught it was working for God, she didn't waste her time or ours instilling order. We had more fun in that class than any other time.

[trotsky]

5. The only things I don't like about it are the identification and segregation aspects.

"Hey, how come Lisa never goes to bible classes?"

"Because she's an ATHEIST!!!!!" *screams*

[onager]

6. I'm an absolutist on this subject

NO entanglement of churches and public schools, period. The churches can recruit on their own damn time and their own billion-dollar properties. They don't need the public schools - funded by ALL tax-payers - to help them out with their marketing. And that's all this is - just a different way of proselytizing.

No matter how "reasonable" it appears, I just don't see any need for this goat-rope of an activity. To me, it's not reasonable to remove part of the student body to a local Spookery for religious indoctrination. While leaving the rest of the class to do other activities. Though I might change my mind if those activities include studying a "World History of Atheism." One good indoctrination deserves another...

Off-topic: Orange County! I lived there for a while too. So long ago that I remember the good old Cuckoo's Nest. Where, if you didn't get dogpiled by the punks, you could get dogpiled by the shit-kickers from the country-western bar across the parking lot. And on a good night, you might get in the middle of an epic melee involving the punks AND the shit-kickers. Also starring the Costa Mesa Police Dept. and the Orange County Sheriff's Office. And EMS. Ah, good times...

[Brainstormy]

19. Here Here! n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

21. Agreed

If you give believers an inch they will want a mile

[mountain grammy]

22. I agree and you said it better than me.

[progressoid]

7. I assume this was during a free hour that didn't interrupt regularly scheduled classes.

But it would be a problem if the school was deliberately scheduling this time for religious training when it could be used for readin' ritin' and rithmatic.

Basically, if tax resources are being used for it. Then, yes, it's a problem.

[AlbertCat]

8. Should the subject of bible classes be kept out of the public school curriculum altogether

YES

That's what Sunday School...on tax exempt property and facilities.... is for.

Now, comparative religion classes is another matter.

And the Bible as ancient literature.... along with the Iliad and Gilgamesh, and the Ramayana.... seems OK.

But just "Bible Study" is for church, not pubic school.

If parents want their kids to "learn the Bible"... then sit down with them and go over it at home.

The only reason to make a "class" out of it alone is to bump up its "legitimacy".

[LiberalAndProud]

9. What were you taught in bible class?

Without knowing more, I'm not in love with this compromise. I am opposed, on principle, to indoctrinating children into religion. If the class was about critical assessment of unreasonable claims, maybe there's room for it.

[Kablooie]

10. The only thing I got out of it was a huge bump on the head.

When I was going to class one day I rammed my head into the corner of an open window.
I had a large bump for days.

Other than that it was a total waste of time.

[LiberalAndProud]

11. My stepson went to elementary school in Orange County in the 80s.

As far as I know, there were no optional bible courses. Still, when we moved back to the Midwest, we felt it best that he repeat a grade to catch up with his classmates. It seems to me that class time could be used more effectively than trotting to and from a fantasy-building exercise.

[Lars39]

13. Was this during the school day or an after school program?

If it was during the school day, that means you were missing out on your education. A child that has not been correctly educated affects everyone in a society. No parent should be pushing bible classes in a public school. Let them send their kids to a private religious school.

[Arugula Latte]

14. That was my thought. If this took place during the school day -- FUCK THAT.

That is absolutely revolting.

If parents want to let their kids be brainwashed with primitive nonsense after school, well, they are allowed to, of course.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Kept the fuck out of public school.

No matter how convoluted the scheme is, such as the one you describe, the effect is the same. The state is sanctioning one religion over others and the students "not participating" are subject to abuse from the majority.

[PassingFair]

16. In my public grade school, only Catholic kids were bused out during the day.

I didn't care, because I wasn't Catholic, and MOST of my classmates weren't, either.
I WOULD have cared if MOST of my classmates were given a field trip in the middle of the day though.

I don't think religion should be mixed in with school, period. Unless, as stated by multiple
people upthread, it is a comparative religion class, reserved for older students (middle or high school).

[Curmudgeoness]

17. I don't see this as a compromise with these parents.

I am absolutely opposed to any Bible classes during a school day in a public school.

I grew up with religion. I had Sunday school on Sunday mornings, and Bible study on Wednesday evenings, and church services, and Bible camp, and Bible retreats. None of this occurred during the school day, and that is the way it should be.

The parents who are asking for these "compromises" really have an agenda, and that is to keep chipping away at the separation of church and state. Give them this, and they will want more.

Why don't we take time out of the school day to indoctrinate children about the reality of Santa Claus?

[Kablooie]

18. This was in late 1950's and in God we trusted, I guess.

I agree that nowadays religious training should not be any part of the public school day.

If parents want more for their children other than the required Sunday indoctrinations, it should be after hours or they can take their kid to a private school.

Public school is should be an oasis of rational thought, not a booster of unsubstantiated beliefs.

[RussBLib]

20. Bible classes never intruded in my elementary school

...and this was deep, deep East Texas (think Louie Gohmert's district) back in the 1960's. I recall hearing nothing about Bible classes during my six years there, but then again, I can't say I remember a whole lot from that period....except for "duck and cover" and Judy Hughey.....mmmm.

Can't ask my parents as they have both passed away. They did (gently) force me to go to Sunday School for a few years (at the First Christian Church in Tyler) until I finally said "No!" in about 1967. Never said another word about it.

I have no idea what's going on in that district now, but it can't be good.

I think the entanglement should stop. If anything, Bible classes should be offered after school or on Sunday mornings like we did it way back then.

[frogmarch]

23. I think it's okay.

In the mid-70s we lived in western south Dakota and all three of our kids were in grade school. Even though my husband and I were atheists, our kids wanted to take part in the United Churches bible study hour called Release Time with their friends, and we thought it might be good for them to see what religion was all about. They found it weird and funny.

After school one day, our 8-year-old daughter Holly told us that at RT that afternoon, her brother Jay, who was 10 at the time, let a huge fart while the pastor was delivering the lord’s prayer and that all the kids (except for Holly, who said Jay was gross and she was embarrassed) burst out laughing. The pastor held up his hand to silence them, and when it was quiet, he looked at Jay and said, “Son, that is not what Release Time means.” The kids burst out laughing again. The pastor, while trying to keep a straight face himself, held up his hand to quiet them, but they kept laughing, so he just spoke louder and continued on with the prayer.

My kids are in their forties now, and they’re all atheists. Well, the youngest one, still a big Star Wars fan, says he kind of likes the idea of The Force.

[Kablooie]

24. I do think it's worthwhile for kids to see what religion ceremonies are.

My wife is Japanese and has no idea what churches are about.
She disdains Christianity which is fine except that she doesn't know what it is that she disdains.
She has a lot of wrong notions that she refuses to consider.
My kids also are growing up totally ignorant of religion too and I think that may be a mistake.

I'm an atheist and disdain a lot of Christianity also but since I was raised Christian I understand good things that some churches do and what some people get from going to church.

As in everything it's not a black and white issue and if you can't see the shades of gray you don't really understand.