panentheism?

[RussBLib]

This is the first I've heard of this term. I guess it's more of that there "sophisticated theology" that us poor atheists can't quite wrap our feeble heads around.

Define: panentheism - the belief or doctrine that God is greater than the universe and includes and interpenetrates it.

Ooo, tough one, eh? Try again

Question: "What is panentheism?"

Answer: Related to Process Theology, panentheism is essentially a combination of theism (God is the supreme being) and pantheism (God is everything). While pantheism says that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims the God is greater than the universe and that the universe is contained within God. Panentheism holds that God is the “supreme effect” of the universe. God is everything in the universe, but God also is greater than the universe. Events and changes in the universe affect and change God. As the universe grows and learns, God also increases in knowledge and being.

FAIL! I detect a very strong odor of bullshit.

I got that term from an article in the Vancouver Sun about Gretta Vosper, an atheist clergy in the United Church of Canada. She's been in the clergy for awhile now, and "She leads a small congregation in Toronto, from where she often denounces her leaders for believing in God (including national Moderator Rev. Gary Paterson, of Vancouver)."

snip:

How do you solve a problem like Gretta Vosper, atheist clergywoman?

To most non-United Church of Canada members who have followed the peculiar case of the semi-famous Rev. Gretta Vosper, it’s a no-brainer.

Why on earth, outsiders ask, would a Christian church allow someone who has long been an outspoken atheist to remain in the clergy?

However, for many in the United Church, which is barely holding its status as the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, the case of Vosper is something best not to discuss. After all, Vosper has until recently remained largely unchallenged because most United Church leaders wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, or be criticized as intolerant.

Original article is here.

[bvf]

1. Thanks, RussBLib.

Always on the lookout for new horseshit theological terminology, and this certainly qualifies.

[bvf]

8. I should have specified "new to me."

I used to rely heavily on SubGenius literature to keep current with theobabble, but never encountered this before.

It was often difficult to tell which were "legit" (using the term loosely here) and which were new coinage.

Will have to fish out some copies of The Stark Fist of Removal for a revisit.

[mr blur]

2. That's not bullshit that you can smell,

that's desperation.

[nil desperandum]

5. Oddly enough

they both have a similarly unpleasant aroma...although there is a certain Karmic justice (not that i believe that) in the current level of desperation exhibited by so many churches whose attendance has been steadily declining in spite of the increasing population.

[AlbertCat]

12. that's desperation.

Redefining "god" again to try to circumnavigate science. Trying to keep the ancient superstition viable and alive.

How can you lose with a panentheistic god? It's MORE than everything!

No amount of logic can make that make sense.



Y'know how when Lawrence Krauss did his lecture (and book) on "A Universe From Nothing" theists clung to the "your definition of nothing is not nothing...." I wonder if we'll get a bunch of arguments on the definition of "everything".

(BTW.... the theists kept moving the goalpost for what could reasonably be called "nothing" until the definition for a "real" nothing was "that from which only god can create." )

[nil desperandum]

6. Bunch

of guys with advanced degrees in mystical nonsense who need to be published and considered among the great minds as deep thinkers....too many folks fall for the doctorates in advanced made up hokum as adding some sort of validity to the study of the reality of fantasy.

Who knew the Jedi mind trick was really just taking advantage of man's desire to be fooled into thinking he's not only not alone in the universe but that a godly being created him and can't wait to share his home with his creation.

[Brainstormy]

7. atheist clergy?

sounds like an oxymoron to me.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. Sounds interesting

We all sometimes need a third party to talk to. Religious people can talk to their minister, but for people like me, an anti-social atheist, usually don't have anyone that is totally disconnected. I have one really good friend, but I don't see him often. Plus, being a friend, he may be a little biased

[AlbertCat]

11. United Church leaders wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings,

[whatthehey]

13. Oh this is more old ineffable untestable schtick; distinction without difference

Reminds me of the old joke about the university Bursar who complained about spending to the Physics Chair.

"I don't understand why you chaps spend so much on electronic gizmos and huge machines. Why can't you be more like the philosophy department? All they spend money on is pencils and erasers. Or even better theology; they just need the pencils."

[Arugula Latte]

14. Interpenetrates?

Sounds ... uh ... kinky ...

[RussBLib]

15. well, they are all looking for the second coming, after all

Let Jesus come in you! Re-ceive him!

God is interpenetrating me as we speak! Urg! mmph!

[awoke_in_2003]

17. Only when it's good

[Major Nikon]

19. Explanation:

[haikugal]

22. That has to be the best thing I've ever seen...

I want to put it on my Facebook...I do like to challenge people.

[Lordquinton]

20. An expanded god of the gaps

We can't detect his presence because he's not here. You can't see him because he's everything. To borrow from sagan, why not save a step and eliminate god all togeer, nothing will change as a result.

[onager]

21. Heretic! Only ONE is everything and everywhere!

https://m.

[mmonk]

23. A rip-off of Pantheism though it's been around awhile.