Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumLosing My Religion?
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/04/losing_my_religion_.htmlSadly, that’s how I have been feeling for quite some time now about my relation with my religion, Islam. A deep sadness and despair over the decay of the Arab world… since Boabdil, the Emir of Granada, surrendered the last Islamic bastion in Spain to the Catholic monarchs. The date was 2 January 1492. It marked the final stage of what is widely considered to have been a brilliant 800 year civilization.
The Arabs had just lost Al-Andalus. And the Arabs never recovered since. It’s been downhill since that fateful day. But who’s to blame? The usual scapegoats? The West? The Jews? The “Apostates”? All of them?
I say WE are to blame and no one else…
Powerful story, but I'm sure there are folks here on DU who have never been Muslims who would love to tell him how wrong he is.
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nil desperandum
(654 posts)when the zenith of their religion was 1492, about the same time that Columbus set out for India and their religion's been on the decline ever since, well 500 plus years of decline and they are still wondering where the nadir is located it is indeed time to lose that religion.
It's time for that religion to cease as a player on the world stage and it's time for those adherents of that faith to walk away and look at another path. One that actually embraces humanity instead of trying to destroy it.
Islam is one of the world's cancers, and like all cancers it can't be reformed it has to be eradicated along with every other cancerous belief in fairy tales that incites people to hate the members of their society who don't conform.
I do not despise those adherents of faith who've been led to believe something that's not true, my concern for them is real that they can see there is no god and being taught to hate because of something that is make-believe is a true injustice.
I don't just despise islam I despise them all as control methods to harness individuals into a belief system that benefits those in power among the religion hierarchy. However, this particular article was about islam so I am addressing my thoughts towards islam. It doesn't make me a bigot against muslims it means I don't like religions, any of them. I will also express my distaste for christianity in articles about christian religions. Thank you for your consideration.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)I can't imagine what it is to live like that.
Who's to blame? We are-- it's an unfortunate consequence of being human and the best hope is that we evolve out of it before we destroy ourselves.
Religion is but one excuse for being miserable to our fellows. Apartheid in South Africa (and our own South) Nazi death camps, Stalin's purges, Hutu-Tutsi wars... Religion had nothing to do with these, and they were state-sponsored, not some outlaw groups.
Pogo was right-- "We have met the enemy and it is us."
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It's this:
Religion is ultimately dependent on belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die.
It therefore has no reality check.
Humans, when armed with an unfalsifiable set of beliefs based on those items Ms. Christina lists, are particularly deadly to each other, and particularly resistant to changing their minds.
As she notes in her article, eventually people realized that the promises of Communism were false, and they rose up. Religion has no such check.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)but the body count is the body count. Religion wouldn't have half a chance trying to match Mao's purges if we humans weren't so ready to believe.
Is it really all religion's fault that we are so ready to believe in a perfect afterlife that we resist the hard work in making this a better present life? I would blame religion for taking advantage of our own faults, but they are first of all our own faults.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)"Body counts" are more a function of increased killing efficiency with 20th century technology than anything else, I'd say.
At no point is anyone saying this is "all religion's fault," that's your straw man. I'm sure it's easier to argue against.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)Religion may have unprovable assertions, but since when do we care about proof?
Witness the anti-vaxers...
And I still say religion's greatest draw for the masses is the promise that after we're dead everything will even up. All scores will be settled and we don't have to do squat but say some prayers here in the present life. Gives us hope when we're being shit upon.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Like this one? http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/anti-vaxxer-mind-7-kids-whooping-cough-article-1.2187390
Yes humans can be gullible. Yes they can hold fast to bad ideas. No one is disputing those things as far as I can see here.
Do you agree or disagree that when we legitimize a system that is based on "belief in invisible beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and events and judgments that happen after we die" those problems become particularly difficult to address?
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)religion is not always the motivator for evil. It often does good.
So, explain why a system that not only mobilizes our dark sides but also gives us hope and mobilizes our good sides is inherently evil.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)If you can find someone who states that religion is "always the motivator for evil" or "inherently evil" you've got yourself a debate opponent you can smash handily.
Or, if instead you want to address the claims of Greta Christina I have posted in this thread, please proceed. They are, once again for reference:
It therefore has no reality check.
I await your response.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)Just a big "So what?"
trotsky
(49,533 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I think the many many purges we know of and DON'T know of because they happened in prehistory that religion is responsible for would bury Mao's in bodies in a matter of seconds.
One must remember that until the USA.... religion was government. The king or emperor was also head of the church.... or paid tribute to the head of some church. The earlier you go, you have leaders being/ declaring themselves gods.
Religion is merely ancient government.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Are you really going to bring that apologist lie in here?
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)for extermination, nobody's denying that.
More to the point of this discussion would be why they were scapegoated. It wasn't exactly over a theological disagreement.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)The lie that Hitler wasn't influenced by religion is apologist bullshit.
Just stop it.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I think they have "something" to do with religion.
All have to do with "tribalism"
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)The song is about a relationship breaking up.... and not religion at all. I wish people would listen to the lyrics. REM is one of the few groups you can understand them!
(I'm having my back porch rebuilt and the guys doing it listen to country music. It's dreadful! But one thing I noticed is that one can hear.... even if it's outside or in another room.... you can hear the lyrics.... the stupid, sentimental, awful lyrics. All drinking, trying to get the girl or not getting the girl. Oh and buying chicken nuggets for their stupid kid )
PassingFair
(22,437 posts)
onager
(9,356 posts)
mr blur
(7,753 posts)Q: What happens if you play a country record backwards?
A: You stop drinking, your wife come back to you and your dog comes back to life.
(sorry...)
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Q: what do a redneck divorce and a tornado have in common?
A: Someone's gonna lose a trailer.
(sorry)
trotsky
(49,533 posts)
onager
(9,356 posts)It's a hot Southern day and 3 guys are having a beer in the local hangout - a blind guy, a guy with 1 arm, and a local redneck.
"You won't believe this," says the one-armed man. "But I see Jesus Christ sitting down at the end of the bar."
"No I don't believe it," says the blind guy. "What does he look like?"
"Just like in all the pictures. Hippie hair. Beard. Nail holes. Hey bartender! Give my man Jesus a beer!"
The bartender slides a beer down the bar. Jesus says "Thank you, my son." He gets up, walks down the bar, and touches the one-armed man gently on the shoulder.
"Holy shit! My damn ARM growed back!"
The blind man quickly yells for the bartender to set up Jesus. Again Jesus thanks him, and touches his eyes.
"I can SEE! I can SEE!"
The redneck gets up, starts for the door, and yells: "Don't you touch me, you bastard! I'm collecting Disability!"
Promethean
(468 posts)Was a euphemism a while back that meant becoming extremely angry or as a more modern euphemism "lose my temper."
onager
(9,356 posts)And REM was from Athens, GA.
deucemagnet
(4,549 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)A new form of totalitarianism claiming legitimacy from the early days of the new religion, the “Final Revelation.”
One goal. And it’s a chilling one: The planet should submit or else. The word Islam after all, is synonymous with submission…Death to diversity, Death to science and technology, Death to human rights, Women’s rights, Dogs rights, No to Art! No to Music, No to Sex! No to Beauty! NO to pleasures! Haram, haram, haram…almost every human activity is HARAM. And Death to everybody who’s NOT them!
I used to consider myself a Muslim. Not the zealot type, far from it.... Although from a liberal-minded family in Algeria, we knew we were Muslims by birth. Then, the choice was ours to deal with this reality as we pleased.
I would never tell him that he should respect religion. Fuck anyone who thinks that.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I would like to remind him, there is not a Muslim gene.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)“A child is not a Christian child, not a Muslim child, but a child of Christian parents or a child of Muslim parents. This latter nomenclature, by the way, would be an excellent piece of consciousness-raising for the children themselves. A child who is told she is a 'child of Muslim parents' will immediately realize that religion is something for her to choose -or reject- when she becomes old enough to do so.”