The brain makes a lot of waste. Now scientists think they know where it goes

[sl8]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/06/26/g-s1-6177/brain-waste-removal-system-amyloid-alzheimer-toxins

(3 min. audio at link)

The brain makes a lot of waste. Now scientists think they know where it goes

JUNE 26, 2024 5:00 AM ET
Jon Hamilton

About 170 billion cells are in the brain, and as they go about their regular tasks, they produce waste — a lot of it. To stay healthy, the brain needs to wash away all that debris. But how exactly it does this has remained a mystery.

Now, two teams of scientists have published three papers that offer a detailed description of the brain's waste-removal system. Their insights could help researchers better understand, treat and perhaps prevent a broad range of brain disorders.

The papers, all published in the journal Nature, suggest that during sleep, slow electrical waves push the fluid around cells from deep in the brain to its surface. There, a sophisticated interface allows the waste products in that fluid to be absorbed into the bloodstream, which takes them to the liver and kidneys to be removed from the body.

One of the waste products carried away is amyloid, the substance that forms sticky plaques in the brains of patients with Alzheimer's disease.

[...]

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https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07108-6
Published: 28 February 2024
Neuronal dynamics direct cerebrospinal fluid perfusion and brain clearance

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07132-6
Published: 28 February 2024
Multisensory gamma stimulation promotes glymphatic clearance of amyloid


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06993-7
Published: 07 February 2024
Identification of direct connections between the dura and the brain

[NJCher]

1. Makes sense, and

sounds hopeful, especially the last paragraph. Wow! What if amyloid plaques could be removed by inducing slow electrical waves.

Also, one has to wonder if meditation, because it alters brain waves, might have a similar effect.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

4. Meditation enhances alpha and theta waves

Gamma is over 40 Hz. Associated with intense information processing and calculation. The gamma paper listed in the OP surprised me. Gamma and beta are reduced by meditation. Often present in stressed-out states.

Beta is 12 to 40 Hz. Associated with focus and problem solving in conventional ways (conventional for the individual). Increased by caffeine and stimulants.

Alpha is about 8 to 12 Hz. Associated with serenity, creativity, non-directed thinking, and dreaming (wake or sleep).

Theta is about 4 to 8 Hz. Associated with hynogogic states: drowsiness, creativity thinking outside of the box, solving problems "in our sleep" in the light phases of sleep especially at the edges. Famous example is Kekule drowsing in front of a fireplace and coming up with the ring structure fundamental to many organic molecules (model modified with modern evidence).

Delta is about 0 to 4 Hz. Associated with deep sleep (no dreams). I think this is the slow waves the OP excerpt referred to.

[NJCher]

5. Are you familiar with

The fast processing of EMDR?

Also, during sleep, our brains process information at a higher rate than when we are awake. Scientists think this increased processing is what causes the rapid back and forth movement of the eyes, known as REM.

The brain states you have listed are covered in Silva training. Also Monroe’s Gateway.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. Looked EMDR up; seems bogus to me. REM is primarily Alpha (dream states)

I just skimmed an EMDR blurb, but it seems to me that most or all of the benefits would come not from EMDR but from the training and counselling around it.

My advice re Silva (skimmed) and Monroe (skimmed) and other practices is to skip mumbo jumbo and go directly to meditation. There is a lot of classical discussion of meditation and lots of online advice about basic eyes-closed meditation. Start with meditation, get some skill at it and branch out from that foundation.

Enhance Alpha primarily and Theta secondarily. You won't lose the ability to focus; mindfulness helps us switch brain states as needed.

I have taken some meditation training. My approach is to encourage and integrate meditative states in daily activities, sometimes called movement meditation: preparing food, cleaning, walking, gardening. I don't sit and meditate, though I probably would benefit from it, as almost everybody would.

[NJCher]

12. Very amusing

EMDR is an established part of mental health practice. As far back as 2005 there were over 30,000 licensed providers and they have to be recognized by their state as independent providers of mental health services. There is a body of scientific literature that supports it. Also the established mental health associations worldwide have officially endorsed it. American Psychological Association is just one.

Now, as far as your advice, I also found that amusing. Gateway speeds up what one can accomplish with meditation.What takes you decades took me about a year. But please proceed, Governor.

I have 40 years of practice with traditional meditation, Gateway, and Silva. I guess I don’t need your advice. It’s facile at best. Very disappointed in you and will never again take one of your posts seriously. Any claim you make should be checked.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. Nothing I wrote precludes your advice. You think you know all about me

And look up the meaning of "skimmed". I carefully applied it, to make it clear I was open to further information. I deployed it three times to indicate that I was in no way writing authoritatively. But no, you decided you know how stupid I am and you decided I am closed minded so you proceeded to a slam rant.

Another reply gave information without the invective.

What takes you decades took me about a year.

You know nothing about my training or experience or duration. Yet you have decided that it took me decades to achieve whatever you achieved (that you left undescribed and unspecified). Did your 40 years include mind-reading? I have no expectation of ever achieving that.

I surmise (I do not know) that you may have done Gateway after other stuff and experience. In other words, you may have (I do not know) built on a foundation and attributed results entirely to Gateway. Or was Gateway your very first training / step?

When I wrote "Start with meditation, get some skill at it and branch out from that foundation", you seem to have missed the meaning of "start" and "branch out".

Start means "to begin". It does NOT mean only do that. It does NOT preclude other practices like Gateway or Silva. But you decided that when I wrote "start" I did not mean start.

"Branch out" means to be open to explore further, not restricted to simple basic meditation.

I most often try to write plainly and clearly but apparently not plainly and clearly enough.

Biden is a great President. Disbelieve that and fact check it.

[NJCher]

21. What's next? Telling me Italy is shaped like a boot?

You provided the information on your training and experience with this paragraph:

I have taken some meditation training. My approach is to encourage and integrate meditative states in daily activities, sometimes called movement meditation: preparing food, cleaning, walking, gardening. I don't sit and meditate, though I probably would benefit from it, as almost everybody would.

This is not meditation. I have frequented numerous meditation forums over the years and comments like yours appear regularly. There are always people who want to think they are meditators without putting in the discipline or hard work. There are always these flimsy offshoots like "movement meditation." I do not consider you a meditator, even though it appears you think you are.

You show your naivete on the topic with your remarks about Gateway. Monroe's achievement is known by just about everyone.

Your original post blithely offers me unsolicited advice. You didn't carefully select any words, despite your protestations. In this post, you even stoop to telling me what "branch out" means. When you've achieved a few decades of regular practice, I might consider listening to you but for now your comments expose you as a poster without gravitas.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Seventh word, last paragraph, your post #1. . . nt

[NJCher]

23. -not bothering

the time for your silliness is over.

[tinrobot]

13. I'm a long-time meditator who has also done EMDR.

EMDR absolutely works. It finally put to rest some PTSD I had from my childhood. Many years of meditation did not.

Like you mentioned, the facilitator who performs EMDR is a big part of it. The goal is to activate traumatic memories, which allows the patient to reprocess the emotions attached to those memories. It's a very specific and formal process that involves eye movement and other activities. EMDR is not something you can do alone.

EMDR is not meditation. I've had years of formal meditation training, and it can't get you to that same state as EMDR. It's also not the same as therapy. EMDR is it's own thing, and mostly aimed at those with past trauma.

[NJCher]

18. yes, it does allow for reprocessing.

thanks for sharing your experience, tinrobot.

Yeah, I know EMDR is not the same as meditation. I was tying it to faster brain processing times.

[Lulu KC]

17. EMDR is fantastic

--with a good facilitator. Like nothing else! Zips through all the blah blah blah right into relief.

[Aussie105]

2. That is it!

Proof I need more down time, proof I need more sleep!

Nighty-night, all! Time for a daily brain flush!

[wolfie001]

6. Good night's sleep is so important!!!

Before this study, everyone knew it was an essential to good health. Like eating right and exercising. But on TT (TikTok), it's all about these green powder drinks. Cures everything. lol

[bucolic_frolic]

3. Concentrate food, supplements, lifestyle, meds on inflammation

Wheat (for most of us), sugar, salt, fats and oils ... there are so many variations of diseases that begin with a fatty, stressed liver. Celiac, fatty liver disease, IBS, IBD, gall bladder, pancreatitis. Give the liver room to do its work.

[littlemissmartypants]

7. Thanks. ❤️

[Farmer-Rick]

9. So now we know the purpose of sleep

This must happen with all animals with sizable brains.

So, it's the deep sleep, delta waves?, that really cleans out the most.

What a fascinating discovery.

[2naSalit]

10. So it doesn't...

Fall out of our mouths in the form of ridiculous utterances?

[sl8]

11. LOL.

You should look into getting a grant.

[tinrobot]

14. One more reason a good night's sleep is important.

[dweller]

15. I always knew

I had a dirty mind , now science supports it .



✌🏻

[sl8]

16. And alcohol *is* a pretty good solvent, so maybe .... :) nt

[BWdem4life]

19. Alcohol is a good cleaner too.

It cleaned me out of my money, wife, house, possessions...