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multigraincracker

(34,075 posts)
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:00 AM Nov 2022

Her mother was also her uncle, DNA test.

https://www.neatorama.com/2022/11/25/Her-Mother-is-Also-Her-Uncle/

A young girl underwent a DNA test to establish her paternity. The results that came back were so confusing that the science director of the genetic institute in Colombia, Juan Yunis, assumed the sample was contaminated and ordered the test done again. But the results were the same. Some parts of her genome excluded her mother as a parent, while others excluded her assumed father. Further tests found that the child's mother had XY chromosomes in her blood, which indicate a genetic male.

Further research showed that the girl's assumed father was, in fact, her biological father, but only when the mother's DNA was excluded. That drew Yunis' attention to more thoroughly test the mother. The mother had XY chromosomes in her blood and saliva, but her hair and cheek cells had XX chromosomes. Parts of the daughter's genome matched each kind of her mother's mismatched DNA. The daughter had inherited some DNA from her mother which originally belonged to her mother's fraternal twin brother, who was never born. That makes the mother a chimera, the result of an embryo that had absorbed and incorporated cells from a twin who had vanished before anyone knew he had existed. Read the convoluted way this all came about, and how it was found, at Grid. -via Digg
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Her mother was also her uncle, DNA test. (Original Post) multigraincracker Nov 2022 OP
Yikes! Joinfortmill Nov 2022 #1
The more we know... multigraincracker Nov 2022 #3
The more we know, the smarter we get - if we're willing to learn. NullTuples Nov 2022 #26
CSI did an episode about a Chimera. Siwsan Nov 2022 #2
If all else fails, get a sperm sample. eppur_se_muova Nov 2022 #34
I think I remember that episode LostOne4Ever Nov 2022 #44
That could be. It was SO long ago. Siwsan Nov 2022 #51
How fascinating! I read all the links and was mesmerized the whole time. CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2022 #4
I posted a study here once that posited a person that is trans could very well have two sets Maraya1969 Nov 2022 #5
i thought only identical twins did that. mopinko Nov 2022 #11
Not according to that study. And it makes sense since it is harder to carry 2 fetuses to term than Maraya1969 Nov 2022 #12
i guess i just assumed. mopinko Nov 2022 #13
Exactly Rebl2 Nov 2022 #17
The "point back" article at Neatorama... MiHale Nov 2022 #6
Wow, just WOW!! Ferrets are Cool Nov 2022 #7
Men with klinefelters are xxy. Wonder how their tests read? GPV Nov 2022 #8
KNR and bookmarking. For later. niyad Nov 2022 #9
You would think that evidence like this would move those bigoted fools to change their thinking. halfulglas Nov 2022 #10
Generally markodochartaigh Nov 2022 #21
Even without the evidence, they could emulate their supposed role model AdamGG Nov 2022 #50
Very interesting and informative. ananda Nov 2022 #14
Genetics are messy. Chimerism. Rare, but it happens. paleotn Nov 2022 #15
Bone marrow transplant may change dna? keithbvadu2 Nov 2022 #16
Yup GB_RN Nov 2022 #18
Bone marrow transplant was my first thought LeftInTX Nov 2022 #19
As does getting pregnant. NullTuples Nov 2022 #42
an acquaintance had a bone marrow transplant imavoter Nov 2022 #43
Which bathroom do Republicans want her to use???? Gruenemann Nov 2022 #20
fascinating. thanks so much for posting. stopdiggin Nov 2022 #22
some cats are natural chimeras DBoon Nov 2022 #23
It can also be found in birds catchnrelease Nov 2022 #28
The Dwight Schrute Strategy Sky Jewels Nov 2022 #24
Not unheard of, but nobody looked prior to maybe a decade ago. NullTuples Nov 2022 #25
That's happened in the U.S., too (the mother was charged with fraud) Rocknation Nov 2022 #27
The study of chimeras is fascinating Hekate Nov 2022 #29
Wow! That's an episode of Las Vegas CSI I missed. Martin68 Nov 2022 #30
God created a man and a woman... multigraincracker Nov 2022 #31
I've always found that part of Genesis fascinating, since the assumption is... NullTuples Nov 2022 #40
Eve was the first transgender. Originally 100% male. keithbvadu2 Nov 2022 #45
Consider this: NullTuples Nov 2022 #49
nothing in the real world is black and white Kali Nov 2022 #32
Binaries are for the most part, a human construct to simplify a complex world. NullTuples Nov 2022 #41
oh, wow... you have really given me some food for thought! slightlv Nov 2022 #33
Kickin' Faux pas Nov 2022 #35
Yes sexuality is more complicated than Repacks burrowowl Nov 2022 #36
A target rich environment for the GOP hate machine. Marcuse Nov 2022 #37
tonight ....on maury povich dembotoz Nov 2022 #38
I'm not sure Marjorie Taylor Green would be fine with this information being released... SKKY Nov 2022 #39
Yowsa! marble falls Nov 2022 #46
when i was a kid + my mom was working st getting a med records degree she had an old book about DNA- pansypoo53219 Nov 2022 #47
Families can be complicated cbabe Nov 2022 #48

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
26. The more we know, the smarter we get - if we're willing to learn.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 01:24 PM
Nov 2022

And that's a big part of why Republicans favor education - and a voting public - that is rooted in 1950's high school biology assumptions.

Siwsan

(27,287 posts)
2. CSI did an episode about a Chimera.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:06 AM
Nov 2022

A rapist whose DNA from a saliva swab excluded him. Everything else pointed to this suspect so Gil Grissom (played by William Petersen) was confused until he saw some striated marks on the man's back. That led him to take DNA from another source, proving the man was the rapist.

I think that's my favorite episode.

eppur_se_muova

(37,398 posts)
34. If all else fails, get a sperm sample.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 04:45 PM
Nov 2022

Compare like to like. (I'm assuming they had a forensic sperm sample.)

LostOne4Ever

(9,597 posts)
44. I think I remember that episode
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:28 PM
Nov 2022

I believe wasn’t a chimera so much as he had De La Chapelle syndrome.

Siwsan

(27,287 posts)
51. That could be. It was SO long ago.
Sun Nov 27, 2022, 06:35 AM
Nov 2022

I checked and I think it was the episode was called 'Bloodlines'. I can remember Gil bringing up, MAYBE, the possibility of a Chimera. It absolutely fascinated me because I'd never heard that term applied to a human.

CaliforniaPeggy

(152,093 posts)
4. How fascinating! I read all the links and was mesmerized the whole time.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:14 AM
Nov 2022

Thank you for posting this, my dear multigraincracker!

Maraya1969

(22,997 posts)
5. I posted a study here once that posited a person that is trans could very well have two sets
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:16 AM
Nov 2022

of DNA and depending where that DNA was it could make a baby come out with a set of genitals that did not match the DNA of the baby's brain. That would happen when a fraternal twins absorbs another twin of the opposite sex.

Maraya1969

(22,997 posts)
12. Not according to that study. And it makes sense since it is harder to carry 2 fetuses to term than
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 09:37 AM
Nov 2022

one and if one dies the other will naturally absorb it.

mopinko

(71,813 posts)
13. i guess i just assumed.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 09:40 AM
Nov 2022

dumb. but assumed it required a single placenta. i guess that makes it easier, but i'm sure there's overlap. now i'm curious about how it works, exactly.

Rebl2

(14,686 posts)
17. Exactly
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 10:07 AM
Nov 2022

I have read this before somewhere. I wish I knew where, but it’s been quite a while ago.

MiHale

(10,783 posts)
6. The "point back" article at Neatorama...
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:21 AM
Nov 2022

could a really confuse some (not pointing to any specific group) not so open minded among us. My brother was a research scientist specializing in diabetes and his wife still works in stem cell research last family get together we discussed this very subject briefly.
Bro mentioned that if only more people could understand even a little…but his IQ blinds him to others comprehension.

g’d morn MGC.

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
10. You would think that evidence like this would move those bigoted fools to change their thinking.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 09:31 AM
Nov 2022

There are natural variations in human sexuality that prove there are more than 2 sexes. It isn't "evil" or "unnatural" to be different, but they take a line from the bible and interpret it the way want it to be as proof.

markodochartaigh

(2,062 posts)
21. Generally
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 11:05 AM
Nov 2022

bigoted fools are not bigoted because of their reliance on facts, they are bigoted because of their reliance on beliefs. They may use particular facts to reinforce their beliefs but they may also ignore facts which contradict their beliefs. Because their bias comes from beliefs and not from facts, exposing them to more facts rarely changes their bias.

AdamGG

(1,487 posts)
50. Even without the evidence, they could emulate their supposed role model
Sun Nov 27, 2022, 02:36 AM
Nov 2022

and just think 'live and let live' and not be judgemental about it.

paleotn

(19,181 posts)
15. Genetics are messy. Chimerism. Rare, but it happens.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 09:58 AM
Nov 2022

Biology just won't follow our foolish notions of what's normal and what's not. It refuses to be put into nice, neat, little boxes.

A similar case....

https://www.livescience.com/61890-what-is-chimerism-fused-twin.html

Answer me this, Christian forced birthers, where is her sib's "soul?" Since "life" begins at conception, does she get to vote twice? After all, by their own definition, she is two people in one. This is what happens when religion intrudes on reality and doesn't stick to it's lane in fantasy world.

GB_RN

(3,156 posts)
18. Yup
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 10:45 AM
Nov 2022

A cheek swab would show your own DNA. However, a blood draw would show the DNA from whoever donated the marrow, assuming that the donation is allogenic - IOW, not a self (or autologous) donation.


NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
42. As does getting pregnant.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 07:09 PM
Nov 2022

It's been pretty well documented that women* who have carried a male* fetus have a good chance of his cells passing through the placenta and "colonizing" (the researchers' word) locations in her body.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2633676/


* for the sake of a simple example I'm assuming they're all cisgender, with typical XX or XY karyotypes.

imavoter

(661 posts)
43. an acquaintance had a bone marrow transplant
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:09 PM
Nov 2022

and his blood type is in the process of changing.
When he needs blood transfusion he gets
O negative now, so there won't be issues.

stopdiggin

(12,827 posts)
22. fascinating. thanks so much for posting.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 11:18 AM
Nov 2022

I was actually (slightly) familiar with the concept of chimera. (I think maybe in relation to 'extreme' tortie patterning in domestic cats?) And, while still comparatively rare (among humans, probably less so in other life forms) - it does tend to puncture some of the smug certainty of the mechanical 'A+B' thinking.

https://cattitudedaily.com/what-is-a-chimera-cat/

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
25. Not unheard of, but nobody looked prior to maybe a decade ago.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 01:23 PM
Nov 2022

There have been several published papers on women who successfully carry a pregnancy to term and turn out to have XY chromosomes.

One was assigned female at birth, went through a typical girl -> woman childhood and puberty, got married, had a child and then was found to have XY chromosomes. But the really interesting part is that her daughter also has XY chromosomes.

Before maybe 8-10 years ago, chromosome testing was expensive. So if someone gave birth, it was simply assumed a karyotype test would come back XX.
But since then, it's become much, much cheaper so more testing is done. And it turns out that it's unusual, but now well documented that a woman can have XY chromosomes.

Naturally, these last ten years or so is also the time period in which Republicans and other conservatives have tried to appropriate concepts such as "follow the science" without actually doing so. Because the science is so very inconvenient for many of their now-bedrock assummptions.

Rocknation

(44,883 posts)
27. That's happened in the U.S., too (the mother was charged with fraud)
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 02:41 PM
Nov 2022

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2022, 11:21 AM - Edit history (3)

The Case of Lydia Fairchild and Her Chimerism

In 2002, after applying for government assistance in the state of Washington, Lydia Fairchild was told that her two children were not a genetic match with her and that therefore, biologically, she could not be their mother. Researchers later determined that the genetic mismatch was due to chimerism, a condition in which two genetically distinct cell lines are present in one body. The state accused Fairchild of fraud and filed a lawsuit against her.

Following evidence from another case of chimerism documented in The New England Journal of Medicine...Fairchild was able to secure legal counsel and establish evidence of her biological maternity. A cervical swab eventually revealed Fairchild’s second distinct cell line, showing that she had not genetically matched her children because she was a chimera.

Fairchild’s case was one of the first public accounts of chimerism and has been used as an example in subsequent discussions about the validity and reliability of DNA evidence in legal proceedings within the United States.


Rocknation

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
40. I've always found that part of Genesis fascinating, since the assumption is...
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 06:52 PM
Nov 2022

...that scribes' hands were guided by God & therefore the text is pretty close to infallible.

Over and over it could've been changed to the binary, "He made them man OR woman" (emphasis mine). But instead it's "He made them man AND woman" overtly recognizing that human sex dimorphic traits over populations chart out as two highly overlapping bell curves.

keithbvadu2

(40,111 posts)
45. Eve was the first transgender. Originally 100% male.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 08:28 PM
Nov 2022

For the Bible folks:::

Eve was the first transgender. Originally 100% male.

God was OK with it.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
49. Consider this:
Sun Nov 27, 2022, 12:06 AM
Nov 2022

For Mary to conceive & bear a child without sperm, it had to be parthenogenesis, ie an egg that is genetically identical to the mother that starts dividing and develops into a fetus. Therefore Jesus had to be a trans man.

NullTuples

(6,017 posts)
41. Binaries are for the most part, a human construct to simplify a complex world.
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 07:00 PM
Nov 2022

Last edited Sun Nov 27, 2022, 12:02 AM - Edit history (2)

We group things into this bucket or that one for our convenience in thinking and communicating, and over time we forget that Nature is much more creative and messy. We see what we conceptualize and ignore that not everything fits in the bucket.

Even with computers, whose 1s and 0's are held up as the ultimate example of binary...it's still just an abstract concept, not a reality.
In the most basic example, a zero is anything below say, 0.3 volts. And a one is anything above 0.7 volts. Note the gap; the voltages are thresholds, where anything above or below can safely be assumed to be the intended logic value.

slightlv

(4,325 posts)
33. oh, wow... you have really given me some food for thought!
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 04:32 PM
Nov 2022

I am one of those women who was a fraternal twin. I was in my Mom's uterus first! My fraternal twin was a male, he didn't make it for very long. This much I've known from Mom since I was a teenager. But now you've got me wondering if I'm carrying some of his genetic markers (as well as some of his traits). I always laughingly remarked my personality, even in the womb, was so strong, I overpowered him. But now, I wonder... if most of my assertive traits (re: male-like traits) came from his genetic nature?

I'm 66 years old, have always presented as female, use female pronouns, am a mother and grandmother, and am happy as such. But I will admit, the bi lifestyle has never been a turnoff for me, and have often said should anything happen to my husband, I'd never marry again, but would probably seek a strong female relationship, instead.

Would any of these ancestry type tests they advertise pick any of this stuff up? I've always ignored these things because I don't trust them. First, I don't trust that routines would be hardened enough to get to -me- what is intrinsically -mine- rather than someone else's. Also, I don't trust they don't turn results over to some database someplace. Since I already have a chronic autoimmune disease that has me on meds, including pain meds, I'm on databases both state and federal, no doubt. It scares the bejesus that someone, someplace, could strip me of meds I need to live.

The geek in me wonders if this type of situation has anything to do with the activation of the autoimmune gene in me, tho. I wonder if any study has been done researching this aspect. So little is known while so many of us suffer autoimmune diseases. And those of us who suffer autoimmune diseases that don't kill us (like me) are at the butt end of the science... and the compassionate nature of me understands... the painful days I have scream out in frustration, tho... I often wish this had hit me earlier. I might have made the science of biology and medicine my majors, rather than psychology, and then made a different career than the one I chose in computers and public service. So many things I'd do different if I were younger, knowing some of the things I know now! (LOL)

SKKY

(12,243 posts)
39. I'm not sure Marjorie Taylor Green would be fine with this information being released...
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 06:06 PM
Nov 2022

..without her consent. It might violate her HIPAA.

pansypoo53219

(21,724 posts)
47. when i was a kid + my mom was working st getting a med records degree she had an old book about DNA-
Sat Nov 26, 2022, 09:37 PM
Nov 2022

DNA alphabet soup. XXX, XYYY, XXXXX w/ photo of a person w/ it.

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