Hiya from the Atheist world!

[Taverner]

This discussion thread was locked by xmas74 (a host of the Christian Liberals & Progressive People of Faith group).

[MrModerate]

1. I have to admit I don't get the connection between . . .

Christians and People of Faith that would explain this post being from "the Atheist world."

Please explain.

[Taverner]

2. It isn't - just someone from the atheist world saying "hi" to the liberal christians

[Irishonly]

3. Hi

[DonCoquixote]

4. civility

what a concept, this DU3 thing might work yet

[Taverner]

6. I'd rather hang out with Social Justice Christians than Ayn Rand Atheists...

[Critters2]

7. Really? Nothing about our invisible friend in the sky?

How wonderfully refreshing. Thank you.

[Taverner]

9. I could care less who you pray too, or who you worship.

I won't be there when you worship them

And I won't be there when you attribute success to them

But I'll be there when the grunt work gets done

And I'll be there when things matter

[Critters2]

13. FWIW, my invisible friend doesn't live in the sky.

[Taverner]

14. FWIW, whatever you wanna do - as long as it doesn't infringe on me - I'm cool

Seriously!

[Critters2]

17. Backatcha. nt

[Taverner]

11. Let me put it this way: I don't care what makes you want to help. I do care that you do help.

[Critters2]

12. My Atheist cousin (my closest relative, emotionally and geographically) and I enjoy discussions

about our positions. She finds my Girardian view of the faith interesting...and rational. She admits she's been surprised by the ways Girardian Christianity makes use of the social sciences. But she's a UU, so open to dialogue with people of faith. I've tried discussing Mimetic Theory in R/T and had my ass handed to me.

Anyway, my understanding that freedom from rivalry; that generosity, inclusion, and forgiveness will bring peace to the world makes me want to help. And I happen to have learned these things from Jesus (by way of Rene' Girard).

[Taverner]

15. Enjoy these conversations

They won't always be there...

[Critters2]

16. What do you mean? nt

[Taverner]

18. We all die. Enjoy these things while you can. nt

[Critters2]

19. Oh! Of course! Thanks

She's a great soul. Her parents both died when she was in her teens and 20s. So, my folks functioned as parents to her to a large degree. Now that my mom's gone, too, she and I have become even closer. Our parents were close when we were young, so we really grew up together. I try to make sure her kids feel a connection to our side of the family, too.

So, yeah. I value her friendship. Thanks for that reminder. Very wise. Have a good night!

[Taverner]

20. Love and care to you

Here's for what we can be and do now!

[WildEyedLiberal]

5. Hiya!

I have to admit, I'm already liking DU3 better. The way it's structured seems much more designed to promote civility and togetherness. And we are ALL in this together, atheist and Christian and Jew and Muslim and pagan and everyone who is fighting the RW juggernaut.

[Critters2]

8. I really still am confused as to all the atheist activity in the Religion forum

including the insistence that Atheism is not a religion. Just perplexing is all.

[Taverner]

10. Atheism is not a religion

Any more than not collecting stamps is a hobby

HOWEVER, enlightening folks is an interest of mine

Not that we Atheists are right or wrong...but that we deserve a place at the table

And acceptance that we can decide that for ourselves...

[Betty Karlson]

23. i invite you to read Hawking's theories

on hyperbolic geometry and the resetting of entropy.

And I dare you to tell me that those are not efforts to conjure a Heaven without a God, or a re-incarnation scheme by the back door.

[Taverner]

24. Perhaps, but that's Hawking, not Atheism

[Betty Karlson]

29. Or as we would say in my church:

That's Catholicism, not Christianity.

[Critters2]

25. Self-delete nt

[Critters2]

26. There's actually quite a bit of discussion as to whether Hawking qualifies as atheist...

and whether his work has become so focused as on metaphysics to still qualify as physics or cosmology...or some new category.

[Betty Karlson]

27. There's a bit of a discussion whether the pope still qualifies

as a Christian (I think he doesn't), but that doesn't deter DU from referring to him as such.

Lovely scholastic excercises in the finer points of atheist dogmatics, or the limits of what exactly qualifies as such, only prove to me that atheism is turning into a religion.

[Critters2]

28. I don't think it's my business to decide whether any self-defined Christian really is.

Ditto with atheists.

Mostly, I try to follow Jesus' teaching--"Do not judge".

I don't know that Hawking has described himself as an atheist. If he has, then I respect his self-definition. That he doesn't fit neatly in the majority Atheist fold, and thus causes other atheists to question his qualifications is also a fact. But, for me, if it says it's a duck, at the very least, I'd let it use my pond.

I read an article the other day wherein Diana Butler Bass said Hitchens wasn't an atheist, really. He just didn't believe in a violent god (frankly, given his writings, I think a violent god would've been the way he'd go, if he had wanted a god, but I digress). I disliked Hitchens, and am beyond sick of the hagiographies that have appeared on DU and elsewhere. But whatever else he may have been, he called himself an atheist. It's not DBB's business to "fix" his self-definition.

I'm also no fan of this Pope (or, as we used to call him at the Boston College School of Theology, "Joe the Rat&quot , but I know he believes that Jesus is the Messiah, and holds to the Trinity. In my book, he's a very self-righteous, relatively intolerant Christian.

[RegieRocker]

30. Oh it is a religion alright and Atheists are more obnoxious than any missionary or evagelical ever

could be.

[Taverner]

32. Yeah, go on believing that...

[RegieRocker]

36. It is a religion when

you try and promote there is no GOD. It is anti-religion. A religion of words.

[Taverner]

37. Let's consult Merriam Webster...

Religion:


(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
(3) : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
(4) : archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
(5) : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith


Atheist:

: one who believes that there is no deity

Now I can see why you might think definition #5 might apply - but note the last word: faith. Faith is belief without evidence:

Faith:

1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs (the Protestant faith)

You might argue definition of #3 might qualify Atheism as a faith, but if you're going to go with that definition, then Democracy is a faith, Capitalism is a faith, Utilitarianism is a faith, left-handed pride is a faith.


ON EDIT: I'm not trying to be snarky or patronizing - I just want to clarify the definition with evidence (the dictionary) and not faith (this is what I think it means)

[cleanhippie]

38. One point of correction.

By definition, an atheist is one that LACKS a belief in a deity.

Theist = believes in a deity.
A-theist = lacks belief in a deity.

Other than that, you are spot on, Carry on and good job!

[RegieRocker]

39. So where is the evidence there is no GOD?

[Critters2]

40. One cannot prove a negative.

There are plenty of reasons to be annoyed with atheists on DU. But the fact that they can't disprove the existence of God isn't one of them. On the flip-side, I readily admit I can't prove the existence of God.

I still try to be less annoying than the Atheists over in R/T.

[RegieRocker]

42. Stating a theory such as

" something from nothing " is just that. The burden of proof is on both parties. God believers and atheists from an agnostic point of view.

[Taverner]

46. It's not something from nothing. It was a super dense core that exploded

Theorists speculate it was a gravity wave

[Taverner]

41. The onus is not on me to disprove god, but for you to prove of his existence

You cannot prove a negative

[RegieRocker]

43. No. Fail.

I am an agnostic so it is on you to disprove their is no God. I will be waiting for either side to disprove or prove. It can't be done.

[Taverner]

44. Can you disprove the existence of an invisible, pink unicorn? No. Then fail.

[RegieRocker]

45. I don't have to I am an agnostic.

but you're an atheist so prove god doesn't exist. Agnostics don't claim that god exists or doesn't exist. Atheists however claim god doesn't exist so prove it. The invisible pink unicorn as with the flying spaghetti monster are atheists fantasies. Prove that they don't exist. When you have visited every inch of the whole universe and beyond and still not discovered that there are no such things you expect me to take your word? LOL, nope you can't disprove it and you never will.

[Thats my opinion]

49. Tav. You were on safe ground as long as you came across as being warm, fuzzy and friendly.

Now you have started the usual atheistic rant about the existence of an invisible, pink, unicorn, I think you have worn out your welcome here.

[Taverner]

50. I have a low tolerance for BS

And saying "Atheism is a Faith" would be like me saying "Lutherans sacrifice their children to Satan."

[Kurmudgeon]

47. No, Atheism is a faith. A faith that there is nothing beyond death, which is not provable.

Which is why it's a faith.

[Taverner]

48. No - that doesn't make it a faith

If someone showed us empirical evidence that there was something after death, then we would change our minds

[Mariana]

21. It's reasonable for atheists to want to discuss religion.

It is a fascinating subject. Religion, and religious people, affect our lives every single day, after all.

Perhaps an analogy will help. What do you think of the people who post in the True Crime group? Are you confused as to all the activity by law-abiding people in that group? If they insist they aren't criminals, but just like to discuss crime stories, do you find that perplexing?

[Critters2]

22. That analogy doesn't really work.

Unless those law-abiding citizens are complaining about all that crime they're so fascinated with. The atheists in Religion aren't just chatting. They're advocating for a position. Not at all the same thing.

[RegieRocker]

31. No it isn't reasonable.

Horrible analogy.

[Tripod]

33. How is an atheist a person of faith?

I don't get it. At least you are participating, getting us to reply. Maybe I don't understand what an atheist is? I have had so many spiritual experiences in my life that I have to have a belief, or be an idiot.... I'm not.

[Taverner]

34. I'm just looking over the fence and saying "hi"

[Tripod]

35. Hi back!

Taverner, I respect you, and your posts, thx.

[xmas74]

51. I take off for a couple of days

and I find a bit of an argument in the middle of the thread.

We're here to welcome all and calmly discuss matters, not argue. (And that comes from both believers and non-believers.)

Argument now over, time to play nice, this thread is now no longer in play and no one person is at fault.

Now have a great weekend everyone!