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[Ricochet21]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Ricochet21) on Thu Aug 16, 2012, 08:29 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Tumbulu]

1. I think thta this gun thing is somehow

a way people experience an extended feeling of self in the physical world.....

I have had dogs most of my life. During a brief period of being dogless I was walking down a road and felt SO small, SO constricted, SO tiny. I realized that all the places that the dogs had ran to, the things that they ran after, the things that they did, I got to go there with them in my mind, my imagination, something. But without them I was just sort of in my own body in my own small place on the earth. It felt odd and sort of limited.

Perhaps this expansive feeling of largeness comes along with the guns....perhaps one's perception of the space that is familiar is extended to the reaches of the pellets or bb's or bullets.

Don't know, this is just my best guess. Because so far, I do not understand it either.

[Ricochet21]

2. Sadly

it's a right of passage, making them a "man"

[kimmerspixelated]

3. I hate guns.

Had this same conversation today with someone. Men OR women believe that they are larger somehow when they shoot them.

[Mojorabbit]

6. I am almost 60 and grew up with guns

It was never a big deal at all. My pop taught all us girls and my brother how to shoot at a young age. Because of this it feels weird to me to see the reactions people have to guns.
I own them, I really enjoy target shooting, but in general I don't think much about them at all. They do not rank anywhere near any of the other things in my life in importance. I think it may
be a difference in exposure to them growing up compared to someone who may never have been around them at all. Different perceptions.
I find a satisfaction in hitting a target but it has never made me feel larger in any way. I can't speak to anyone else's experience though.

I have been really sad lately. So many things I am reading in the news are making me feel sort of hopeless, ie climate change articles. I am trying to spend some time
outdoors watching my bees or trying to tame my garden weeds but it is so very hot and I am not getting as much satisfaction outdoors due to the heat. I am hoping
it is just the new moon energy making me more emotional and that I will perk up as that energy wanes.

[Celebration]

17. I sort of relate to this

I had a Whamo Slingshot, which was about comparable to a BB gun. And I lived in a suburban neighborhood! I loved shooting at targets. Once I shot at a bird on a wire thinking I wouldn't come close. It must have whizzed by them because they scattered. After that I stuck to targets.

I shot clay pigeons with guns, and could hit them, but killing or hurting things never interested me at all.

But, today, I like to "shoot" birds with photography. I think we need to turn the gun lovers into photographers! There is a lot of satisfaction in shooting a good bird photo.

Some people can be corrupted by the power of guns, just as others are corrupted by money. It really is sad that the responsible gun owners are thrown in with the nut cases. But assault rifles??? Jeez, no...........PLEASE!

[mother earth]

4. Apparently their mothers had no say in the choice of "gift".

But just to lighten things up a bit, there's this from A Christmas Story:

Ralphie is visiting Santa at the department store, only he can't remember what he wanted]
Santa Claus: How about a nice football?
Ralphie as Adult: [narrating] Football? Football? What's a football? With unconscious will my voice squeaked out 'football'.
Santa Claus: Okay, get him out of here.
Ralphie as Adult: [narrating] A football? Oh no, what was I doing? Wake up, Stupid! Wake up!
Ralphie: [Ralphie is shoved down the slide, but he stops himself and climbs back up] No! No! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!
Santa Claus: You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

-----------------------
As a mom, I guess I can understand that some boys covet toy guns and some the real deal (bb guns). What I find extremely troublesome are the computer games that require shooting, and these days they are creepier than ever, more realistic and more violent. I think it desensitizes people to violence. (Edited to add, I am in no way making light of today's senseless tragedy, I just thought of ACS with Rick's post.)

[kimmerspixelated]

5. Exactly. Those games today

are wicked and give me the chills.

[TalkingDog]

7. I can't understand why people need so many cars, electronic gadgets or clothes.

"Necessity" is a relative thing.

I own a gun (3 actually) for the same reason I own a spade or a set of pruning shears. It is a tool.

The last time I shot them was to check the sighting calibration before I cleaned them and put them back into the space where they are stored. That was a couple of years ago. We live in an area with a lot of rabies and a lot of stray dogs, coyotes, foxes, etc. Frankly, I'd be stupid not to have a gun.

There is no "extension" of self as another respondent suggested, there is no machismo, no right of passage/manhood bullshit people always want to project onto the owners of guns.

It is a cuisinart, a paintbrush, a saw, a can opener, a hammer. I have no more or less attachment or emotional connection to a gun than you have to your electric toothbrush.

Everybody who is ascribing emotional and psychological content to gun ownership really needs to get over themselves.

[davsand]

10. Yes. A tool is about right.

I grew up in a family of gun owners and hunters. We ate what we shot and if you shot it, it was because you planned to eat it. There is a death inherent to any piece of meat and the fact that it comes on a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, with a mini pad under it doesn't erase that.

We also lived out in a rural area where if you had a varmint messing with your livestock you were gonna wait a LONG time to see animal control. By the time they showed up you probably would have a bunch of dead and dying livestock unless you took care of the issue on your own. I know that a lot of animals kill to eat, but I will tell you from first hand experience that there are some--other than humans--that kill just to do it.

I will also say that it is really easy to sit and talk about guns in the abstract, but if you live someplace where 911 response is probably gonna take at least 30-45 minutes, you begin to be a bit more sympathetic to the idea of gun ownership for home protection. Yeah, none of us are exactly Rambo or any of the other kick ass movie types, but I'm pretty sure that the sound of me racking a shell into a shotgun is probably gonna slow down the guy trying to kick in my front door a whole lot more than me yelling "I've just called 911."

What really gets me is the realization that a lot of "gun crime" is not carried out by folks who have them as a tool or even as a hobby (a la hunters, for example.) A drive by shooting was most likely NOT done with a gun bought legally, nor was it done by anybody with a license to even own a gun. It was done by a criminal that doesn't give two shits about how legal it is to be in possession of that firearm. Similarly, the guy in that movie theater was batshit nuts to do what he did. I really doubt that anybody that would booby trap his own apartment is gonna sit and worry about getting busted for illegal weapons charges. Yes, crazy people do buy guns and yes, it is a problem. Mental ILLNESS is the un-addressed problem. The gun itself did not kill all those people--a man picked it up from where it laid and in his illness HE chose to use it to kill people.

Cars kill people. Smoking kills people. Hell, one guy's wife beat him to death with her bowling ball one night! The element of human choice and human failings seems to be at work in every case.

Sorry. I know that probably is not a widely held view.


Laura

[marions ghost]

21. Reasonable, sane levels of gun control do not exist in this country

Don't worry, nobody's going to take away your guns. Never mind hunting animals for food (tiny % of the population), too many people feel they need guns for a sense of security, no matter how false. I realize we are not going to stop the buying of guns as a SYMBOL of "security." Only a less fearful society will do that.

It is the lack of regulation and control of the means to obliterate a large group of people. The lack of even the most reasonable controls is what is so tragically backward.

Human killing is the problem. And it DOES rise to the level of a Public Health concern.

[marions ghost]

20. A gun is a tool meant for killing

...comparing it to a cuisinart...surely you

The glamour and romance of guns, weapons, killing machines is well documented.

[TalkingDog]

22. Yes. Sometimes things need to die. It's a fact of life. A butcher's knife

is used to slice the throat of a still living pig that has been tied to a brace. The screams are horrific.

A butcher's knife is a tool. A tool used to kill things. Not comparing it to a Cuisinart based on a political agenda is pedantic.

I don't slaughter pigs. But I do own a number of butcher's knives.

My guns have never been used to kill a healthy animal for food. However, I would use them for that purpose if the need arose.

I did use one to kill a squirrel that had been mortally wounded but without intervention would die only after an agonizing wait.

I have also used one to spook coyotes away from our back field.

Grow up. Learn the difference between politics and practicality.

[Ricochet21]

23. who are you, the boss?

My dad? Telling me to grow up

you're in the wrong room

go to GD

We do something weird in this room; we're nice to each other.

There are other ways to express yourself.

[southerncrone]

8. We certainly don't need any of these semi/or automatic weapons.

BB & pellet, ok, but the rest are simply for killing. If one lives in an area w/vicious wild animals, certainly you would want a shotgun or rifle for protection. Guns have a place, but we have glorified KILLING EACH OTHER way too much in our media & entertainment sector. Desensitizing youth to this is rearing its ugly head. Guns are NOT toys. Shooting & killing someone on a video game is not the same as the real deal. However, it's not too unreasonable to expect that those who enjoy killing & gore in the virtual world, might want to take it to the "real" world, just to see what it's like. Some people cannot control their desires & resultant actions.
Uranus in Aries. Crazy gunfire. Neptune in Pisces. Will we advance spiritually as a species from it?

[findrskeep]

9. Rick, I agree with you 100%

This will keep happening until we wake up and demand stricter gun control in America. It's obvious that gun control works. How many times do you hear about this sort of thing happening in England or Canada?? This is a wake up call. But will we hear it this time, and if we do hear it, will we answer it? I don't know, but I hope so.

[NJCher]

11. a gun is for killing

I wouldn't want anything in my home that would even suggest that purpose.


Cher

[kentauros]

13. That is a point

that really cannot be brought up elsewhere on DU. Guns were invented to kill, no matter if some people only use them for "target" shooting. The history is important.

At the same time, most of us (or those that have kitchens) have tools that are also designated as weapons: knives. However, it evolved to be used as a tool, first, and later as a weapon. The spear was used for the killing and simply wasn't designed for cutting. Same for a gun. It can only kill. You can't skin a turkey with a gun

[FirstLight]

12. I get it,

I could say I feel the same as you, Rick...the glorification of guns is a scary thing... so is the video game culture as others have pointed out. While the thought of shooting or even holding a gun is loath to me, I *have* to admit I have considered getting a good pellet gun for the varmint/deterrent/survival factor, if nothing else. Living Rurally, it is something to consider...

I used to shoot beer cans with my dad's BB gun when I was a kid, he taught me & my sis all about safety etc...but then again, he also taught us how to pick a lock and change the oil...

[MagickMuffin]

14. David Sylvian "The Boy With The Gun"

He knows well his wicked ways
A course of bitterness
A grudge held from his childhood days
As if life had loved him less
Reading down his list of names
He ticks them one by one
He points the barrel at the sky
Firing shots off at the sun

"I am the law and I am the King
I am the wisdom, listen to me sing"

He carves out the victim's names
In the wooden butt of the gun
He leans well back against the tree
He knows his Kingdom's come
He'll breath a sigh self satisfied
The work is in good hands
He shoots the coins into the air
And follows where the money lands

"I am the law and I am the King
I am the wisdom, listen to me sing"

He pauses at the city's edge
Of hellfire and of stone
He summons up the devil there
To give him courage of his own
He'll free the sinners of deceit
They'll hear his name and run
His justice is his own reward
Measured out beneath the sun

"I am the law and I am the King
I am the wisdom, listen to me sing"

And my name's on the gun
Work is just begun
The boy with the gun



I guess this song always comes to my mind when we experience tragic events like the one in Colorado.

[kentauros]

15. I've always liked David Sylvian's music

I only own a tape someone once left in my car, but maybe I'll have a look online soon and see what else I can find.


For me, the one quote that I am reminded of most often comes from Eddie Izzard (of course):

[get the red out]

16. I've never gotten the "gun culture"

And all that it entails. I've lived my whole life in Kentucky and it's not much different from TN, so I certainly identify with Rick's OP.

I am not bothered by RESPONSIBLE hunters. My BIL likes Venison, and is a deer hunter. He and his kids (not my Sister, she's picky like me with food) eat what he kills. And if the deer overpopulated due to lack of enough natural predators then many would starve in the winter. A lot if duck hunters are the same way. They eat what they kill, and it their case get the joy of working with their retrievers and taking pride in that partnership with their dogs. There is a guy like that in the same dog agility class with me, he loves training his gorgeous Flatcoat at everything he can.

But the guys who have to have guns, just to have guns, and the bigger the better and look how tough I am! That attitude makes me very uncomfortable. That is generally a type of man that had an aura about him that made me uncomfortable for as long as I can remember. In my younger years I dated some real NON-prize winners, but NEVER was even close to getting close to someone who radiated that air. They have a hardness that puts me off. I think the NRA is all about that hardness, that patriarchal sneer and desire for control, at the end of a gun if necessary. I feel like that hardness is a part of the patriarchal control, which snares men as well as women. A man can't face his insecurities, but BY GAWD he can buy a gun and pretend they don't exist. Those are some bad rules for society.

[PinkTiger]

18. I'e never liked guns.

But I live alone in the country and now have a Mossberg 12-gauge semiautomatic shotgun and a pit bull. And I know how to use the gun and the dog is not mean, but nobody knows that. People see a pit bull and automatically think their lives are in danger.
Without a man to protect me, I need protection. I'm even thinking of getting a handgun and a carry permit.
But I'm not a gun aficionado. I would never consider my favorite possession my Mossberg.
In fact, I was raised in a family who never owned guns. We had books instead. And political discussions. When I married my late husband, I was thrown into a different world of guns and knives and sports. But until he died, I never learned to shoot a gun.

[Still Blue in PDX]

19. I'm not a gun fan, but I loved my BB gun as a kid.

I was pretty good at shooting pop cans off of stumps.

I hate the idea of shooting any living thing, although it did kind of tickle me when my arachnophobic son shot a spider in our garage with his paintball gun. Made quite a splash!