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BlueIris

(29,135 posts)
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:25 PM Mar 2012

Speaking of karma, soul contracts and life purpose...

...Cheney got a heart transplant:

http://news.yahoo.com/us-former-vice-president-dick-cheney-gets-heart-231558926.html

Sometimes I wonder about situations like this. Situations in which a person who has had a myriad of health problems continues on despite the odds. I am not, and I repeat, not, suggesting Cheney didn't "deserve" this transplant, any more than anyone else does or doesn't deserve their organ transplant. But...

What purpose does the life of someone like Dick Cheney serve? I mean that in the spiritual sense, not "Cheney should just die already!" Does anyone here have any insights into what he is here on earth to do?

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Speaking of karma, soul contracts and life purpose... (Original Post) BlueIris Mar 2012 OP
Every story needs its antagonist Saokymo Mar 2012 #1
Perhaps in the long term, edgineered Mar 2012 #2
It is my understanding that SheilaT Mar 2012 #3
I'm just going to flat out say that he made a pact, in addition to being Ecumenist Mar 2012 #4
That possibility (being afraid of what's waiting for him) has come up several times BlueIris Mar 2012 #5
I don't think that it hurt being dick cheney and having lot's a dead presidents Ecumenist Mar 2012 #6
That's about how I feel Saokymo Mar 2012 #7
LOL! Howler Mar 2012 #8
What if he gets a good heart and it changes him... icymist Mar 2012 #9
HHHHHHHOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!! Howler Mar 2012 #11
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!! icymist Mar 2012 #13
That is exactly what I was thinking Tumbulu Mar 2012 #17
Re: rejection... BlueIris Mar 2012 #10
I had a real problem with him getting the transplant since I've signed to be a donor. GardeningGal Mar 2012 #12
Interesting to think about... BanzaiBonnie Mar 2012 #14
The best thing for everyone is if Cheney has a real change of heart. bigmonkey Mar 2012 #15
Sylvia Browne may have an answer. Cleita Mar 2012 #16
There Are Just People Who Feel Entitled dynasaw Mar 2012 #18
I think only Cheney could truly know his soul purpose magical thyme Mar 2012 #19
Thank you for sharing your experience, magical thyme. BlueIris Mar 2012 #20
I think it's important not to jump to conclusions and assume someone is trying holy fool Mar 2012 #22
Thank you, BlueIris magical thyme Mar 2012 #24
Here is my problem with what you describe: holy fool Mar 2012 #21
you misquoted me magical thyme Mar 2012 #23
Sorry for the misquote the holy fool Mar 2012 #26
first the problem was saying I "wanted" magical thyme Mar 2012 #28
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #30
and this is where it again shows how unfamiliar you are with this group magical thyme Mar 2012 #31
Well said MT Ricochet21 Mar 2012 #32
Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #33
LOL maddezmom Mar 2012 #34
Whew.... OneGrassRoot Mar 2012 #36
I can see how you would think I was unfamiliar with this group im all that Mar 2012 #43
I get your point. magical thyme Mar 2012 #45
I agree get the red out Mar 2012 #27
Thank you, and I agree get the red out Mar 2012 #25
You're right; kentauros Mar 2012 #29
Well said. :) OneGrassRoot Mar 2012 #35
I'm glad it made sense to someone! kentauros Mar 2012 #37
I saw someone on Wayne Dyer's latest program last week magical thyme Mar 2012 #38
I'm glad my post made some sense to you kentauros Mar 2012 #39
Gawd, I love that... OneGrassRoot Mar 2012 #41
There is a purpose; here's what I hope it is.... Avalux Mar 2012 #40
OR....... Howler Mar 2012 #42
I like your humor Tumbulu Mar 2012 #44
:) Howler Mar 2012 #46

edgineered

(2,101 posts)
2. Perhaps in the long term,
Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:46 PM
Mar 2012

the wisdom gained by the collective intelligence of all universes allows eternity to exist.

Consider the future of humankind - when it comes down to there being one person left alive, two scenarios exist. In one, a man lies on the sand with "cut here" written in charcoal on his ribs. In the other there is hope, and that hope is in giving and nurturing life.

It is hard to imagine that all existance would choose not to exist. Likewise with Cheney's being - he can not be be the same in a future existance.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
3. It is my understanding that
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 12:07 AM
Mar 2012

we are here to learn various lessons. Sometimes I feel as if it's clear what a given person's lessons are, other times not so obvious. We have no real way of knowing for sure about this.

But looking at Cheney's life so far, I'm going to make up that some of his lessons involve the use of power, especially power over others. It may well be that he needs to be here for some particular span of years, and the heart transplant just enables him to have that length of time.

In the end, we are all totally responsible for what we do here, and lessons we don't learn in one lifetime will pop up in another. We all also get distracted by actually being in a body, and all that happens because of that. We don't consciously know exactly why we are here in this lifetime, and so may get side-tracked.

At least that's my take on things.

Ecumenist

(6,086 posts)
4. I'm just going to flat out say that he made a pact, in addition to being
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 04:02 AM
Mar 2012

afraid to die. I would too if were him. Can you imagine all the souls he had a direct hand in dispatching waiting on him?

BlueIris

(29,135 posts)
5. That possibility (being afraid of what's waiting for him) has come up several times
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:15 AM
Mar 2012

in this forum and I think it's a likely explanation for his desire to stretch things out.

I just sometimes wonder how he has managed to pull it off this long. The reports state Cheney was on the transplant list for twenty months, which would seem to preclude 'stealing' or buying the heart he received. The NPR story I heard also acknowledged that it's somewhat unusual for a 71 year old to get this sort of transplant, but some heart transplant centers do allow men at his age to get the surgery, the hospital he was at in Virginia being one of them. So there may have been nothing spiritual or paranormal about this development.

Ecumenist

(6,086 posts)
6. I don't think that it hurt being dick cheney and having lot's a dead presidents
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:32 AM
Mar 2012

Remember Mickie Mantle and how he was given a liver even though he was poor candidate, (I believe he had a cancer of the hepatic system) and he died not too long after he got the liver. The thing was that at the time, he somehow "magically" leapt" ahead of others that were waiting longer and who were a match for the liver. No, I think some strings were pulled.

Saokymo

(273 posts)
7. That's about how I feel
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 09:16 AM
Mar 2012

Nothing too sinister outside of pulling the former-VP-influence card.

And I will admit to having a wicked little hope that the heart rejects him after the transplant. The soulless bastard's never had a heart before, why should he get one now?

Howler

(4,225 posts)
8. LOL!
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 10:16 AM
Mar 2012

Trust Me Saokymo I'm right there with you only I have a Wicked BIG hope that a heart will reject him!!!!! And I offer no apoligies.

icymist

(15,888 posts)
9. What if he gets a good heart and it changes him...
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
Mar 2012

Then he sees all the damage he has caused. Just imagine all the grief he would suddendly feel. He'll probably have to go out hunting and kill a bunch of tied up quail to make the 'feelings' go away!

Howler

(4,225 posts)
11. HHHHHHHOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 12:00 PM
Mar 2012

And shoot another couple of "Friends" in the face too!!!!!

Tumbulu

(6,445 posts)
17. That is exactly what I was thinking
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 10:24 PM
Mar 2012

I think that that is why he was given this heart. So he could begin to see/feel for once what he has done......

BlueIris

(29,135 posts)
10. Re: rejection...
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 11:08 AM
Mar 2012

Our own Celebration once posted that she feels Cheney has a totally blocked 4th chakra. Not good for heart problems/heart issues. (She has also stated that Cheney has all seven major chakras blocked; very unusual in my experience.)

GardeningGal

(2,211 posts)
12. I had a real problem with him getting the transplant since I've signed to be a donor.
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 12:34 PM
Mar 2012

Then after thinking about this all night it occurred to me that it isn't just Cheney's karma involved, but also the donor's. I finally realized that we probably can't even imagine all the scenarios that could be involved and that I needed to let it go and trust that all was in accordance with the divine plan.

Wasn't easy getting there though.

BanzaiBonnie

(3,621 posts)
14. Interesting to think about...
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:21 PM
Mar 2012

Especially when we know that parts of the donor's personality seems to follow organs, via cellular memory.

Cheney has had a "change of heart."

bigmonkey

(1,798 posts)
15. The best thing for everyone is if Cheney has a real change of heart.
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 01:24 PM
Mar 2012

During the depths of the Bush years I used to find I was feeling just so vindictive and vengeful. So, as an experiment, I tried to compose what I was really wishing for, assuming the continuation of our regular, everyday world. So, I came up with:
The Bush family are overcome with a desire to publicly tell the whole truth.
They are able to do so (no-one prevents them).
Everyone gets to hear what they say.

If I just apply this to Cheney, I can still wish this wholeheartedly. Who is more of an "insider" than him? A contrite Cheney, given our current circumstances, would be transformational.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
16. Sylvia Browne may have an answer.
Sun Mar 25, 2012, 09:37 PM
Mar 2012

Now I know a lot of people think she's a fake, but she did say something about this that could make sense. She said that our existence here on this earthly plane is actually Hell and that we are working on our karma here so we can move on to higher planes of existence. The reason so many evil people do so well here is because it's a natural environment for them and they keep coming back here so they learn in each lifetime more and more about how to work the system.

dynasaw

(998 posts)
18. There Are Just People Who Feel Entitled
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 07:36 AM
Mar 2012

and never give a second thought about it. They come into this world like parasites; taking, taking, taking--taking power, taking the goodness of others, taking time, taking resources without any thoughts to whether anything they take justifies why they are here.

In ancient societies people were taught that there needs to be a balanced equation of givers and takers: which is also what karma is all about. However, I think we've lost our way on that idea.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
19. I think only Cheney could truly know his soul purpose
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 09:02 AM
Mar 2012

but I sincerely doubt he has a clue. I suspect he hangs on because he fears death, and because he can afford the best western medical care can offer. I suspect he is in for a long, rough karmic ride.

Frankly I have a problem with the entire "soul contract" business, especially when it's presented as my soul agreed to "experience this terrible thing (or do terrible things to somebody) to teach others/humanity" or whatever.

This has been bothering me for a while, so maybe here is a good place to write about it. A couple years ago I was having a particularly difficult experience and I wrote about it here. I desperately needed some validation, an "I'm so sorry you're experiencing that awful situation" and maybe some practical advice or suggestions on how to deal with it. I saw such sympathy/empathy offered to many others with far smaller issues, such not getting what they wanted from their boyfriend or tripping and falling but uninjured or getting a flat tire, really small stuff in comparison.

Not only did I not get any of what I'd hoped for, but somebody who has sincerely dedicated herself to compassion, wrote something along the lines of "Thank you for agreeing to take on this horrible experience so the rest of us don't have to."

I'll tell you now how that felt to me. Isolating, cold and cruel. Blaming the victim. The absolute antithesis of compassion and empathy.

It was a *terrible* thing to say to somebody. All I can say is that if you know of somebody going through a really rough patch and you have the urge to thank them for taking on such a "soul contract," do them a favor and stfu. I mean it, albeit in the nicest possible way. Thank you. :group hug:

BlueIris

(29,135 posts)
20. Thank you for sharing your experience, magical thyme.
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:50 AM
Mar 2012

I have had at least two awful experiences here, re: discussions of painful life experiences. I also feel a lot of lingering resentment about the way people treated me when I talked about my life and the life experiences of others.

I do not feel it is appropriate for people to try to gloss over the pain of what other people are going through with throwaway comments like, "It's just your karma," "You signed up for this in this life cycle," or "It's 'necessary' for you to go through this so others can be spared."

I think it's particularly callous for people to be posting things like that when someone is going through severe trauma and needs support not judgment. Trauma should never be brushed aside with one dimensional platitudes.

Then there is the little matter of how rude it is to try to impose your own perspective on someone else, especially someone in pain, before you've even tried to find out if she shares this perspective. Spiritual opinions on the significance of pain and loss in this life vary quite a bit. So do opinions on the definition of karma, even among people who are comfortable with the idea of past and future lives and an afterlife. Why does anyone feel it is acceptable to just dump a specific view on others, others who may not have even want to hear it? This isn't General Discussion. Tact, consideration and sensitivity are supposed to be important here.

 

holy fool

(6 posts)
22. I think it's important not to jump to conclusions and assume someone is trying
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:04 AM
Mar 2012

to convert others to their point of view. I have had someone I cared about die and gotten the typical "sympathy" and ended up feeling worse! It's not cold to say that this is not a random, chaotic Universe, things are in Divine Order and it's truly all good.

There is also the tendency of people to complain about their problems and when others don't respond by treating them like helpless victims, they get turned on. It's far more empowering and comforting (if a person is truly committed to improving their situation) to be told that there are things that can be done to change things, rather than saying "Oh you poor thing! Woe is you!"

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
24. Thank you, BlueIris
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:30 AM
Mar 2012

Agreed, 100%. Really well said.

I hope you are able to release your resentment and feel better. I do believe people here do the best they can; they just don't always recognize how their beliefs are just that, beliefs, not necessarily how things work, not necessarily shared by others and while open to discussion, not necessarily helpful 'in the moment.'

 

holy fool

(6 posts)
21. Here is my problem with what you describe:
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:00 AM
Mar 2012

People have difficult experiences. You say you "desperately wanted validation." I think that was your first mistake. When one goes through traumatic (or even less serious) situations, it's human nature to want to have other people agree with you that you were wronged. But when we go to others with that need and don't get what we want, is it really fair to argue over how someone responds to your issue, even though I don't see the response you mentioned as being "cruel" in the least. It's so easy to slap on a smiley on one's post here: Does that really make me compassionate or is it just the easy way out?

My partner once was talking to his brother because his brother's wife had just suffered a miscarriage. Now my partner is a VERY warm and loving person but he's also very spiritual. He told his brother that the soul of the baby didn't want to incarnate and so it was actually a good thing. The brother was not happy with that answer. I guess I am just tired of people judging responses to their issues. We're all doing the best we can at this moment.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
23. you misquoted me
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:20 AM
Mar 2012

I did NOT write that I "desperately WANTED validation." I wrote that I desperately NEEDED it. That is in hindsight.

I did not write here specifically looking for validation (or maybe acknowledgement), but for general suggestions and advice.

In *hindsight* I needed for people to simply recognize my very real suffering and respond to that with suggestions on how to fix the issues. A little sympathy would have been nice as well. Instead, I got a response that simply left me feeling isolated.

"I think that was your first mistake. "
" I don't see the response you mentioned as being "cruel" in the least. "
" I guess I am just tired of people judging responses to their issues."

And those are classic "blame the victim" responses. You don't see a response as cruel because you are not putting yourself in the shoes of the person who is reaching out. You are glossing over another's suffering because you, yourself, do not feel it.

You can write that you are tired of people judging other's responses. Understand, I was not judging responses in the moment -- I was responding to the responses. They evoked greater suffering in me. That is not judgement; it is reality. That is all.

So people can read this and choose to blame me for daring to complain or criticize a philosophy I have a problem with. Or they can read this and take away a lesson -- that when people are in deep suffering, it may not be the best time to give a supposedly spiritual reply that they *chose* to suffer, which reflects personal beliefs that many, many people do NOT share. A simple, "I'm sorry for what you are suffering" is a far, far better response than suggesting that people deliberately and consciously chose suffering for themselves.

Which brings us back to the topic of the thread. I have real issues with "soul contract," which to me is an easy way to blame the victim. I do NOT in any way, shape or form believe that our souls deliberately and consciously choose bad experiences either to teach or to learn or for any freakin' reason offered. They may unconsciously attract or create them -- and unconscious is the crucial term here. It is in learning to make fully conscious choices that we can undo negative karma, imho.

 

the holy fool

(2 posts)
26. Sorry for the misquote
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:26 PM
Mar 2012

but saying you NEEDED it is where the problem begins. When we approach other people out of need, there is an agenda that must be fulfilled...OR ELSE, LOL! And oftentimes, no matter how much someone else tries to convey compassion, there is always something lacking. No one really knows how another person feels, even if they've gone thru the same situation.

The bigger question is whether there are really victims or not. I have spent my life with situations that have been very frustrating and hurtful. Believe me, it's easy to feel like a victim. But "victim" implies helpless; at the whim of others and life. I choose not to see myself in such a disempowering light. I notice that when I tell people (who are complaining about their health issues, mind you) about possible things they can do that don't involve surgeries and drugs, inevitably there is this anger that I am "blaming" them for their condition. The word BLAME seems to be foremost in people's minds and yet it has nothing to do with what I am trying to accomplish.

Cheers.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
28. first the problem was saying I "wanted"
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 10:19 PM
Mar 2012

and when that was a mistake, then the problem was saying I "needed."

People have needs. That is a fact. Blaming them for having needs is again blaming the victim.

I'm not talking about a helpless victim. I'm talking about somebody who is suffering, who actively seeks support and advice or whatever to fill their needs, and instead is told "thank you for taking this on" and how it feels to be at the receiving end of that response.

"The word BLAME seems to be foremost in people's minds and yet it has nothing to do with what I am trying to accomplish. "

Hmmmm...so BLAME is foremost in people's minds (iow, not just mine) but it has nothing to do with what *you* are trying to accomplish. Maybe whatever it is you are trying to accomplish, you are going about it in the wrong way or you are missing something.

Maybe one of the problems here is that you weren't there (at the old DU) so have no idea what I am talking about. There are others who *were* there, who have experienced what I have experienced, who have felt similar reactions. Maybe if you had experienced it you would understand what *we* are getting at and what *we* are trying to accomplish.



Response to magical thyme (Reply #28)

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
31. and this is where it again shows how unfamiliar you are with this group
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 02:42 PM
Mar 2012

or you would know that we as a whole are pretty well versed on the concept you describe above.

You would also know that we, as a group, are generally very supportive of each other. As I wrote in my original post, I have no doubt of the sincerity of intent of the person who had replied to me. We come here to share and discuss ideas and experiences, but we also come here to be supportive of each other.

And because we have a history here of being supportive of each other, we do have expectations not that other people will necessarily tell us what we "want to hear," but that they will be *supportive* and *sensitive* to our experiences, even and especially if they are telling us something that they believe we need to know.

Consider this scenario: A person is in a car accident and taken to the emergency room. Out of curiosity, the person asks the ER doctor how they know that a heavily bleeding, open wound on their hand does not have glass from the broken windshield in it. The doctor says, "Here's how" and, pressing a wad of gauze on the wound, unexpectedly scrubs the wound and flap of skin covering it back and forth, very hard. This may answer the person's question, but it also caused severe, unexpected and unnecessary pain. Believe me, it hurt like a sonofabich! And it certainly was NOT the response I needed to hear. Nor was the answer provided in a very sensitive or compassionate way.

Words may "just be semantics" to you, but in fact they have meaning. Furthermore, brain studies have shown that verbal abuse is perceived by the brain as physical pain. The same neurocenters are activated by verbal abuse as by physical pain.

What you are calling "feeling like a victim" I am saying feels like pain. I'm not saying you "didn't meet my expectations." I'm saying, what you said caused additional pain. Just like how the ER doctor answered my question. Yes, it provided what he thought was an appropriate answer. It still caused additional, unnecessary pain. This is particularly true when somebody has opened themselves to discuss deeply sensitive issues.



Response to magical thyme (Reply #31)

OneGrassRoot

(23,423 posts)
36. Whew....
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:48 AM
Mar 2012

This is a powerful thread.

Thank you both, {{{{{magical thyme}}}}} and {{{{{Blue Iris}}}}} for sharing of yourselves so openly and honestly.

I've had a few similar discussions at the old ASAH about this issue; how "new age" (for lack of a better phrase) viewpoints try so hard to "rise above" (rather than simply BE human, though embracing the better angels of our nature) and see our suffering as soul contracts, or attempt to explain the suffering from a higher perspective in an attempt to help the person feel better in some way, often by being more empowered (hence the inadvertent message of victimization and that we've somehow caused our pain).

I went through a very painful loss years ago, and still vividly remember the hurt and anger I experienced as a result of well-meaning comments, cards and even gifts.

In my case, there wasn't a damn thing anyone could say or do to help me, yet there was so much that was said and done that increased the pain.

Since then, based on that experience, I try not to share any words of wisdom when someone is in pain. Whether it's online or in the "real" world, I simply try to acknowledge their pain and, somehow, let them know if they want to share more, I'm here to listen.

I rarely have any suggestions or advice when others are going through some sort of challenge, traumatic or otherwise. Not only do I not have clear beliefs that I feel could be helpful to others, but I suppose I came away from my own experience with the very strong feeling that the less I say, the better. First, do no harm.

I will say that when I offer hugs and a shoulder/ear, or to be available if the person thinks of any way I can be of service, I mean it most sincerely.

This "being human" thing is nearly unbearable at times, and the attempts to make it bearable, ironically, can compound it.

Simply being present and acknowledging others' pain is, imho, sometimes the most compassionate thing we can do. I realize when someone is in pain and they're asking for solutions and advice they may get upset that people like me may seem to be sharing empty platitudes, but hopefully in hindsight, if not at the time, it can be received in the way it was intended.




 

im all that

(6 posts)
43. I can see how you would think I was unfamiliar with this group
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 03:31 PM
Mar 2012

being a low-post...humanoid and all Trust that I am well-aware of you guys and have been following this group since the old one for a couple of years or so. I would never presume anything had I not been familiar with it.

I never assume someone is "well-versed" in every aspect of a certain topic. I had never heard of Byron Katie until just recently. Your analogy with the "pressing glass into the wound" was interesting, yet I don't feel that it fit for what I was trying to convey.

The point I was trying to make is that our suffering may be of our own doing. Can you imagine if anything you encountered could be turned around and not taken as yet another assault on your being? That would never mean surrounding yourself with abusive people, yet on the flipside it also would mean you didn't get upset if those you love didn't fulfill your "need" in the way you saw fit.

I leave you with a couple of Byron Katie quotes:

All I have is all I need and all I need is all I have in this moment.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/byron-katie/how-i-learned-to-stop-suf_b_70207.html

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
45. I get your point.
Sat Mar 31, 2012, 04:30 PM
Mar 2012

We ALL get your point.

You still do not get my point, nor do I expect you will anytime soon. I will spend no more time on this.

get the red out

(13,586 posts)
25. Thank you, and I agree
Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:10 PM
Mar 2012

[Not only did I not get any of what I'd hoped for, but somebody who has sincerely dedicated herself to compassion, wrote something along the lines of "Thank you for agreeing to take on this horrible experience so the rest of us don't have to." ]

One thing I keep noticing in various lines of spiritual thought is that it can go so far that it loops back on itself and inadvertantly becomes cruel and decidedly non-spiritual. A lot of times it takes the form of blaming the victim, as in your case. I have participated in a recovery group for close to 20 years and see it there as well when people take the responsibility idea to such a length that it sometimes ends in a blame the victim mentality there as well. I also used to see it online with some devotees of "The Secret" where someone could even be blamed for their own illness because of thinking that created it.

Problems are a condition of the physical world. Someone else having a problem in no way prevents my having a problem. The way I look at it is opposite, if I can be compassionate to someone else with a problem then when I have problems maybe I can spare a little compassion for myself, or maybe I learned from the other person how to deal. We're here to help each other through after all.

On Cheney, I think what plays out will be interesting. I don't envy the man, not one bit. I have no clue what kind of physical and emotional pain a heart transplant entails. I do know that I watched my Dad fight heart disease, and his decline was in no way fun. After he had had four open heart surgeries and was debilitated from the final two, cancer took over with a giant blast while his resistance was nil and it was over for him a week after diagnosis. It was just horrible, and from that experience I feel that Cheney may prolong his life, but he may not be making the best decision for himself in doing so, but it is his decision, his path.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
29. You're right;
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 02:56 AM
Mar 2012

only Cheney can know his soul purpose. And other than paying someone to help us find that rather personal answer out, we're the only ones that need to know our own purpose. Unsolicited statements from others with regards to it are usually not welcome.

My guess is that those people that say that are trying to be more like those entities in Spirit that are not like us at all. They see these loving, higher beings, that seem to be able to forgive pretty much everything, and either because they've determined that they are like them (as in incarnated angels and so forth) or just wanting to be like them, that they can be just as detached from the negativity in their comments. Oh they don't mean for their words to sound hurting and so forth, but they don't really understand that they are just as human as the rest of us, and can't get away from that fact.

We are not (the non-corporeal) angels, higher beings, Higher Selves, Ascended Masters, et cetera. They have unconditional love for us. We don't have the same for each other, or so very few of us do that you can count them on one or two hands And I don't think most people really understand what "unconditional love" means, either. In my head, by my definition, it means that those beings of Spirit do not judge, and there is literally nothing that humans do that is unforgivable. We don't really have that level of spiritual beingness here on Earth. We're human! If we were meant to be that way, well, this would be Heaven on Earth.

There's nothing wrong with striving to those higher levels of spirituality. But I think more people would benefit from what I've been reading of the Buddhist teachings and apply that to their general New Age thought. Then you might not have people telling you it's just your soul contract. They can still think it is, but would learn to keep that to themselves and offer genuine compassion instead. Be a Human, not an angel!

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
38. I saw someone on Wayne Dyer's latest program last week
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:44 AM
Mar 2012

She was always a "nice" person. Always nice. Got cancer, was 4th stage, 5 days in a coma. Her doctors had notified her family she had only hours left. Her family was gathered around her waiting for her to pass.

In her near death experience, she was aware of everything that was going on throughout the 5 days comatose, and frustrated at her inability to communicate. She was also aware of the presence of loved ones who had already passed. Mostly she said she felt surrounded by complete, unconditional love. Absolutely without condition. My impression from her is that Dick Cheney, Adolph Hitler, Idi Amin, Michael Vick will experience this same unconditional love.

She learned that her life purpose was to be herself. To simply be who she was, completely. It was her choice whether or not to continue in this life. She said that it was not easy to choose to come back to her seriously ill body, but that she chose to come back to share her learning.

Once she chose to stay here, she came out of the coma and made a miraculous recovery. Miraculous that she even survived, but also that within something like a week, her tumors shrank by 70% and were completely gone within a couple weeks.

She believes illness is based in fear. She had always been afraid to be herself. Now she is herself. She smilingly made it clear that did not always mean acting "nice." She's just being and living who she is, fully human.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
39. I'm glad my post made some sense to you
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:04 AM
Mar 2012
Because I was trying to get out much of what you just put to words. It's difficult for us, as physical, feeling beings, to wrap our brains around the concept of unconditional love, that even the worst of our kind won't be judged for their actions here. (That's saved for the "life review" as I understand it, and it's all our own judgement against ourselves in the process.) And I know that I'd likely never be able to explain this succinctly enough for those that "don't get it". I think this is one of those "truths" that you pretty much have to come to terms with yourself, without an argument pushing you

I know of whom you speak in your example, too, though I can't remember her name. I haven't listened to Wayne's show in weeks, so I likely missed that one. When he speaks of her, he's usually in awe of her experience as well! And so many of the NDEs I've read give similar experiences with the non-judgement aspect of those in Spirit. I do have to remind myself of that aspect, even when I'm still angry at some human in this life

OneGrassRoot

(23,423 posts)
41. Gawd, I love that...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:43 PM
Mar 2012

"She's just being and living who she is, fully human."

Thank you so much for posting this.



Avalux

(35,015 posts)
40. There is a purpose; here's what I hope it is....
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:14 PM
Mar 2012

Cheney had a heart transplant. The heart is not only a blood pumping organ, it is the center of our emotions. There are bound to be ramifications on a spiritual level; if the heart belonged to a conscientious, peaceful, honest person, then it's possible the heart may 'influence' Cheney. Perhaps it will compel him to confess the injustices for which he's been involved. There are anecdotal cases of people 'changing' after receiving a heart transplant.

That is my hope.

Howler

(4,225 posts)
42. OR.......
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 06:07 PM
Mar 2012

the heart could have a finely tuned sense of justice and just claw its way out of Cheneys chest!!!!! Better to flop and die on the floor in dignity then keep beating to the tune of a hopeless monster.......HEY!!! Body organs have standards too!!!!!





Sorry Avalux I do appreciate your optimism.

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