My friend's young daughter passed away from leukemia recently and she is mad at God

[freeplessinseattle]

Any advice for what I can say to help even a little bit that wouldn't accidentally be offensive and would resonate with her on her level? I am having a hard enough time as it is trying to think of the right things to say to help, and sure wish I had finished my darn Master's in counseling because I am feeling completely incompetent.

While I know that nothing I say can really ease the pain much at all, I feel like a useless dummy just repeating how sorry I am, especially when she said she is tired of people's condolences. I've suggested she go to grief counseling, but I think she is feeling too paralyzed to do anything.

I have no religious background but she is a devout Mormon and strongly believed that if she had enough faith her daughter would be ok, so now thinks that she didn't have enough faith, or did something to disappoint God so he let her down.

While I can see how the idea of faith can help provide comfort and strength in trying times, much like the power of positive thinking, I can't help but feel it is deceptive and messes with people's minds too much to encourage people to put so much faith in the power of God.

I don't want to say what I really think, that if God is so all powerful why does cancer, especially childhood leukemia, exist in the first place? And why does he/she need such constant validation of other's faith and approval in order to help? Seems a little narcisstic to me (but of course I would never say that).

Right now I am sure she is feeling angry and confused, and needs a target for her anger, so God is handy. Since her religion gave her comfort before though and nothing else really can right now I think it would be helpful if I can somehow get her back on track to finding some comfort in her faith still, and a suitable explanationdespite being "let down" Maybe something like saying that some things are more powerful than God, but he tried, and is still all loving, etc...or...??

[OneGrassRoot]

1. What I appreciated the most...

when I lost my son, who was stillborn, is when people didn't try to offer words of wisdom.

As you said, it's too easy for words with good intention to be taken differently than intended, given the frame of mind and being consumed with grief.

When people would simply say (or write) that they're there when/if I need them, that was sufficient.

All the books and advice to join support groups and insights into why "God" took him so soon did nothing but agitate me at the time, to be honest. I wasn't religious at the time (nor am I now), but even well-meaning spiritual messages sent to me didn't sit well.

My advice is to simply tell/show her you're there for her, and not even try to say the right thing as far as advice or wisdom.

I'm very sorry for her pain and the loss.

[freeplessinseattle]

2. I do get that, but simply remaining silent while she is pouring her heart out

seems a little harsh, too, and repeating one sentence over and over seems lame, too, and I don't know, strikes me as a little dismissive, like I am not really there for her at that very moment. But that is just my feeling being on the outside, of course.

I just can't help but wonder what exactly is being there for her if it doesn't include being a comforting friend? She's my officemate and I am trying to pick up the slack around the office (we do Reiki/massage) financially and otherwise, and really am at a loss of what else to do (besides the ól bring over a casserole, etc).

If not any words of comfort/wisdom, what do I say/do??? I know there is nothing that will make the pain go away, but some people do seem to find comfort in their religion after the death of a loved one, from what I have heard, so maybe it would help her, too?

[OneGrassRoot]

4. I don't have insight about the religious aspect...

hopefully she can gain comfort but I wouldn't have a clue what you could say, since you aren't of the same faith, to help in this regard.

Maybe others can offer suggestions since you feel perhaps tapping into her faith may be a way for you to offer comfort and open discussion.

As to the first part of your reply and you not understanding how to comfort, and that you feel saying the same thing over and over again feels lame, unless she is specifically asking you for your help or advice or your thoughts, it's my experience that the less said, the better.

(Not just from my personal experience shared above, but in dealing with others in the throes of grief.)

Being honest about not knowing what to say is fine. Saying, "I'm so sorry for your pain" repeatedly is fine, too. Being silent and hugging (if you're in person) is fine.

I just fear that trying hard to find the perfect thing to say to anyone in the midst of grieving is a huge task for anyone, and it can cause more harm than good.

All of that is simply my personal opinion, of course.

[freeplessinseattle]

9. Thank you, it does help to know that simply being silent isn't necessarily

construed as uncaring or being uncomfortable, or that I am letting her down.

She has seen a few clients, and mentioned that she told a couple of longtime clients who had known of her daughter's condition, but she said they just got quiet and uncomfortable, so I guess also I don't want her to think I am reacting like those clients, when she obviously was seeking something more from them, maybe just a hug, or a more overt expression of compassion for her.

[Remember Me]

15. Comforting doesn't necessarily mean advice-giving

Hah! I should talk. I'm all about wanting to "fix" things and this is THE hardest thing for me to do. Hard to remember, let alone do.

But I think the advice to just listen is the best. One way to help is to reflect back to her what she's said to you --

"So if I understand you right,...."

"That must be hard...."

"It sounds as if you...."

Those and others like them are statements that let someone know they've been heard and understood (not necessarily agreed with) --which is SO important -- and they usually go on from there, with more discussion and explanation.

And you can always send her love (Universal Love). Or envelop her in pink light. Maybe put her firmly in God's hands. Or, if you don't believe in God yourself (???), Spirit's hands, or the Universe's hands, or -- ?? You get the idea.

[Howler]

3. i'm of the same mind as OGR.

Just be there for her. She is going to go through several changes and stages of grief.
There really is nothing you can say or do that is going to make her feel better .
Just listen. Your presence alone is offering support. Just radiate love and strength with no judgement.
I had a friend that went through a very similar circumstance and at times she just raged.(Which was totally out of charactor) I just listened and was there for her.

Only time helps. This is the kind of wound that never really completely heals.

Sending light ,love,to you and your friend Freeperlessinseattle .

[freeplessinseattle]

6. Thank you. I guess i just feel that if I remain silent

it seems cold, or seems like a silent agreement when she says she feels like God has let her down....or since she knows that I'm not religious myself she might think that I am thinking...what I am thinking, and feel worlds apart.

Maybe a better place to have posted this would be in another group in this category, I just gravitated towards the group most familiar and resonating to me, and I really do appreciate you all listening.

[WolverineDG]

12. maybe she feels more comfortable telling you that

because she knows you're not religious & won't judge her or tell her she's going to Hell. If she's Mormon, probably everyone else in her circle would freak out if she told them stuff like that.

[Howler]

19. Whoa ! Whoa! Whoa!

Look at what you just said Freeplessinseattle!


" I guess i just feel that if I remain silent
it seems cold, or seems like a silent agreement when she says she feels like God has let her down....or since she knows that I'm not religious myself she might think that I am thinking...what I am thinking, and feel worlds apart. "

You are such a talented Empathic......However this is about Your friend. What she feels,what she thinks,what her needs and reaction are.Get yourself out of the way! You cannot take on or feel the pain for her! Just be there for her, thats all you can do.
This is one of life's hardest waves to ride.

[Tumbulu]

5. I agree with OGR and Howler

but what comes to my mind is giving her something to do with her hands or body.

Some people buy yarn from me to give to grieving friends or relatives to knit with, so this clearly helps many people. Is there a yarn shop around that you could visit with her - of course if she knit a bunch of things for her daughter, this might be a painful choice....but the idea is to give her something to do with her hands. Needlepoint? Lace making? Tactile healing.

Another woman who lost both her children within one year took up riding competitively and borrowed my wonderful horse for 4 years. She had always ridden, but did not have the money for a good horse to go into competitions with, and so she loved and cared for my horse and competed in Dressage with her and won ribbons and painted pictures of her and was able to heal through getting to do something special that she never had money or time to do before.

What a transformative thing for anyone to go through, I am sorry for your friend and sorry for the difficult position you are in regarding comforting her.

[freeplessinseattle]

7. Thank you, that is a good idea, I will ponder on some ideas

It does maybe help that she has 7 cats, so petting and grooming them may offer some comfort.

I have another friend that does horse massage in addition to people massage, maybe that would be an idea to put out there...hmmm

Thank you for your kind thoughts and words, they do mean a lot, to me.

[Matariki]

8. Perhaps ask what she needs and listen

Perhaps letting her talk it through without trying to fix anything might be the best support you can give.

[freeplessinseattle]

10. she says she wants to try to process things but doesn't know how

and doesn't know how to deal with the intense feelings. & seems to be seeking an answer to why God let her down. which of course no one can give, but I'm sure a Bishop, etc would have some pat response.

So while I have no delusions about being able to "fix" things, I certainly don't have adequate answers to the above.

[Matariki]

13. Yeah, that's really really tough

I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to lose one's child. I imagine I would curse god too. Nor would I have the first idea what I would say to a friend going through that. Hugs to you Freeplessinseattle. I wish you well and healing and peace for your friend.

[freeplessinseattle]

16. Thank you Matariki! and get this, her daughter was signed up for a promising study

at Fred Hutchinson I had stumbled across. It had only been tried on a few people due to lack of funding but the results were so incredible it was pretty exciting and promising. She had to be a certain age (was 3 1/2 at the time she passed away) and was slated to start within the next few months, I think.

So on the one hand I also feel like I gave them false hope, ....but maybe I can direct her anger towards the powers that be for not giving enough funding. or something.

[WolverineDG]

11. Probably the worst thing given to my dad & me when my mom died was

the book "When bad things happen to good people." The gifter had all the best intentions, but it wasn't what we needed at that particular time. I never wanted to burn a book so much in my whole life as I did that book.

Sounds like your friend is hurt & angry (one of the stages of grief). I know I've had a few bouts of getting pissed off at God....eventually I get over it.

Her daughter's death had nothing to do with her, or how strong her faith is or how much God loves her. If I can quote something I saw on Oprah, it has something to do with this: the soul doesn't depart until its work is done.

I would just let her know you are there for her if she needs an ear. Eventually, she'll be at a point where you can talk more directly about what she's "mad" about right now.

[rosesaylavee]

14. After my dad died when I was a kid

and on a few other occasions, I spent a lot of time being PO'd at 'god'. I had a lot of people tell me it was 'god's will' that my dad died young. 'What a bunch of bunk' is what I thought then and it started me on my spiritual journey. But it was a painful way to start.

I don't think there is anything you can say or do to make it go quicker than she takes it right now. Be there, bring her soup, call her every day, give her whatever time and energy you can. Don't try to fix it. It's something she has to do on her own. Let her know that you know it will take time but you have faith that she will come out ok on the other end of this journey and you are there for the duration and will help when you can.

[BlueToTheBone]

17. Be her friend.

Ask her what she wants of you. I'll bet she'll say Listen to Me...Don't judge...Don't try to fix...I'll tell you when I'm through...or I'.. ask for your help. Don't run away, but stand back if I ask. Be my friend. Love me like you always have.

Yourself? My Tibetan teacher would say, chant Om Mani Padme Hum to yourself. Over and over, with a mala if you have one.

Center yourself and hold your friend's grief and simply love her.

[PADemD]

18. Grieving

The five stages of grief are:

Denial

Anger

Bargaining

Depression

Acceptance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

Sometimes, people bounce back and forth from one stage to another, such as bargaining with God first and then anger. Your friend is going through the anger stage of grief right now.

If you contact The Compassionate Friends (see link below), they may have a chapter in your area or be able to suggest a group your friend could attend.

http://www.compassionatefriends.org/home.aspx

Some people do not like to participate in grief support groups for privacy reasons or because they feel that no one can possibly understand what they are going through. That is so wrong because a person who has had the same experience is the only one who can understand.

I reluctantly attended a grief support group over thirty years ago, and it was a great help.

For parents who have lost an older child and the parent’s friends, I recommend “The Bereaved Parent” by Harriet Sarnoff Schiff.

http://www.amazon.com/BEREAVED-PARENT-Harriet-Sarnoff-Schiff/dp/B001AE4O8E/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325384489&sr=1-1

From the comments on Amazon:
“This is the book I recommend first for bereaved parents, and for those who, powerless in observing such pain, want to understand.”

It is normal for your friend to be angry, but she should seek counseling if she becomes stuck in any one of the grief stages.

You are a good friend to try to help your friend cope; many people avoid grieving parents. It can be a very lonely place.

[Ecumenist]

20. You know Freepless, I'm dealing with cancer as we speak and I just got home from watching

the New Year's Eve Fireworks and it's funny that I logged on to read your post. My husband and I were thanking God for the time He's given me, especially considering that there are so many others who didn't make it this far, though their situation were nowhere near as dire as my prognosis. We were talking about my roommate who had had a complete pelvic exenternetion and she was a newly wed who was 19 years old and with a newborn baby. We were wondering if she was still here as I'm sure that her family had as much desire and faith for her to survive as mine had for me. I don't think that the faith or the lack of enough of it determines the survival of people. If it were, noone would ever die from AIDS, cancer, miscarriage, murder or any number of horrible things other than after a long, healthy and happy life in the arms of a loving family.

As far as her anger at God? I think he's offended if we aren't angry when we lose something so precious and yet, refuse to allow ourselves to experience a perfectly human and understandable emotion. After all, he gave us free will as well as making us in His image, so why would it be a sin to be angry at God for taking the most precious thing we could have here on earth? (And this is coming from a pretty strong Christian). I have undergone travails in my life, losing both my mother and mother in law as well as two babies in 4 years. However, I don't believe that he's coldhearted enough to put us through a horrific experience just to see our response.

My personal belief is that children who die early are given the chance to return to the same parents. I've just seen too many cases where there were no other explanation. As much as she wanted that baby to stay, the best thing for the sweet soul was to be released from a body diseased and damaged beyond repair. Dealing with my own battle with a form of cancer has really shown me what's it like to be on the other side of the fence, so to speak. The one thing I am completely certain of is that she will see her baby again, whether it's because she chooses to reincarnate here or when she meets her when her time here is over.

It seems as though you may be warring with yourself as to what you should do, take your cue from her. Sit quietly and listen to her when she needs it, have a hug ready when necessary and shoulder for her to cry on. Your heart will lead you and that kind of common sense love can never be learned from books.

In the meantime, you, your friend and her family have the prayers of me and my family. I thank God for people like you who love so purely that you ask others how to be a better friend and sister. Luckily, we don't have to believe in God despite what other so-called "christians" tell you because, as mother Abigail so famously said on "The Stand" when told that one of the characters informed her that he didn't believe in God.."That's okay because God believes in you!". As far as I'm concerned, no greater proof of the reality of God and the fact that life goes on exists than the love and concern of people like you Freepless. Religion means nothing, it's just force of habit. One can be religious about the way one brushes one's teeth. True belief and grace are people who well and truly care at the darkest hour.

[Cleita]

22. I'm so sorry to hear that.

You will be in my prayers and thoughts this year.

[Ecumenist]

25. Thank you Cleita!!

I believe in my God and I know that no matter what happens, I'LL BE OKAY. That's the great thing about being given the preview of the other side, You know longer fear death. Most people don't understand that death isn't the frightening thing...it's what it takes to get you there, whether it's drowning, murder, disease, a speeding bus, train or truck, etc. It's what it takes to get us to our passage. the one true gift I have from Heaven, no matter what happens to me, I'll be okay because I've seen where I'll end up. Now I have 3 birthdays. January 30th, August 7th and February 4th.

There's a song from the movie, "Prince of Egypt" that really says what I have started to live my life by...."Look at your life through heavens eyes". There are many parts of this song that says alot but the best part of it for me is this part-

"So how do you judge the worth of a man by what he builds or buys?
You can never see with your eyes on earth, look through heaven's eyes,
Look at your life through heaven's eyes."

I have learned to live my life by what that song says, look at life through heaven's eyes.
No matter what happens, Cleita, I'll be okay.

[magical thyme]

23. what ecumenist said

"take your cue from her. Sit quietly and listen to her when she needs it, have a hug ready when necessary and shoulder for her to cry on. Your heart will lead you and that kind of common sense love can never be learned from books."

And silence is fine too. Just being there, quietly listening.

[Cleita]

21. If you stop believing in God, then there is no one to blame would be a cynic's answer.

I have an acquaintance, whose son died as a teenager from a genetic disease. She stopped going to church because as she says a loving God would not have allowed him to suffer like he did. I really don't know what answer you would give to a grieving mother who has asserted that. Perhaps the lesson here is that man-made religions and beliefs aren't the answer and that she needs to search for the true God and her true path in life. That comes from within and no priest or other purveyor of religion can accomplish that.

Also, why did the child get leukemia? Was there something in the water or in her environment that triggered it, or was it genetic? Perhaps her daughter's death will not be meaningless if she follows through and starts asking the hard questions. This may be God's call to her for activism so other children don't die. I have always believed that every life has a purpose and a lesson in how that person lived and died. The purpose is not always obvious and one has to dig through the fog to get to finally see it.

My heart goes out to this woman and my prayers will be that she starts healing from this devastating blow as soon as possible.

[Ecumenist]

24. Well Said, Cleita!

When her friend is ready and is strong enough, my prayer is for her to focus that anger and desperation to a laser light sharpness so that her daughter battle and passing is not in apparent vain. As you said so eloquently, the question is this: was her daughter journey undertaken due to contaminants in the environment that may have activated a heretofore silent oncogene? Did it cause her body to begin fighting against itself in response to manmade carcinogens? Or was her body programmed from birth because of some mutation in her code or maybe is was something that was could have been prevented, because of a preprogrammed issue, ( if it known to medical science) with a supplement designed to prevent the development of the disease?

Everyone's life has a purpose, though it may seem so small and meaningless to us as a race. We need to look at each life through heaven's eyes. Trust me, I've been in the Lobby a couple of times, (I've had 4 NDE'S) and that's how they roll. This may be the opening shot in a life of a warrior who fights for the lives of other little girls and boys so that they never have to fight the battle her sweet little one did.

It's going to take a bit of time for her to arrive at the place where she can see things through Heaven's eyes and that's okay. God understands. She may leave the spiritual path she's been walking all her life and it may be that she's so hurt that she no longer finds comfort in God. Guess what? I don't believe in a God so cruel and heartless that he would damn someone who has been so hurt that she can no longer see the light that led her for so long. Right now, that isn't as important, (I can't believe I'm saying this so it must be coming from that mediumistic side of me)as your friend finding her feet once againGod is infinite and has infinite patience.

So, if she stays angry at God for the foreseeable future, that's alright. Just be there for her as a friend and someone to hold onto.

[SheilaT]

26. Here's my two cents.

I agree with much of what others have already said about each life having a particular purpose, and a soul does not depart until it is ready, even if that time to leave is a whole lot sooner than we would have liked.

The real problem for this woman is that her religion has told her she personally can control things in this life that she personally can NOT possibly control. In this case, her daughter's leukemia and death. Of course, to tell her to abandon her religion will not help her in the least.

I have not myself had a child die, so I know I have no real clue what it is like for her. But I think that those who have assured you that just listening to her is hugely valuable. She needs to express her anger and her grief, and your listening and not judging is probably exactly what she needs at this time. I do know that as time goes by grief does diminish. But it takes time. And as long as this woman lives she may well think of her daughter every single day, and every single day she will wish her daughter still alive, and she'll always know exactly how old she'd be now, and will wonder how her life would have unfolded.

So keep on doing what you're doing. Listen with compassion. Keep in mind what others have said about the things that don't help, and try not to do or say them. Just by being there you are giving her an enormous gift.