Was Mister Rogers the messiah?

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

The question seems blasphemous.
But the idea certainly must be in many people’s minds as they emerge from the movie theater after seeing “A Beautiful Day In The Neighborhood.”
The film stars Tom Hanks as Fred Rogers, aka Mister Rogers, the iconic children’s television show host. It tells the story of Rogers’ relationship with a journalist who writes for Esquire magazine, based on the real life writer Tom Junod but called Lloyd Vogel in the film. Rogers helps the journalist to repair his relationship with his estranged father, and to become a better husband and father himself. …

And the author leads into:

I am thinking of these words by my friend and teacher Shai Held:
“Judaism dreams of a world in which human dignity is real and the presence of God is manifest. And yet the world as we know it all too often makes a mockery of that dream: Human dignity is trodden and trampled upon in countless ways, and God seems far away, absent, even nonexistent. How do we go on hoping in a seemingly hopeless world?”

To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2019/11/27/fred-rogers-neighborhood-tom-hanks-movie/

[hlthe2b]

1. Seems as though with the blatant hypocrisy among conservative "Christian" fundamentalists

that a truly nice, decent person-- who lives the tenets of Christ-- would, by comparison, certainly look like the messiah. Somehow, I doubt the kindly humble Fred Rogers would agree.

[guillaumeb]

2. We agree on this.

He was doing his best to follow the path.

[trotsky]

5. "The" path?

What path?

[getagrip_already]

8. his path... he was going to attend seminary school but decided to see how he...

could use the power of television to do good and reinforce his deeply held religious beliefs - without using religion overtly. Just the teachings.

Yet he had people on his show he knew to be gay; with no prejudice applied against them.. And he wanted blacks and minorities to be represented.

Those certainly weren't the practiced tenets of religion at the time (and certainly not now).

[trotsky]

10. guillaumeb didn't say "his" path, he said "THE" path.

I'd like to know what "THE" path is, and how guillaumeb knows what it is.

Do you know what it is?

[getagrip_already]

11. oh, that path....

Yeah, it runs from squirrel hill to mount washington. There is a bus that can take you if you don't want to walk.

Sorry, not sure what you are really asking..... What does "the" path mean to you.....

[trotsky]

12. It means nothing to me, that's why I asked what was meant.

Thanks for chiming in.

[guillaumeb]

15. So dismissive, disrespectful, and sarcastic.

Is this how you promote dialogue?

[trotsky]

18. Oh hey! So what's "the" path, g?

Or are you only interested in attacking me?

I asked you a question. Will you answer, or attack?

[guillaumeb]

20. Will you apologize to the poster for your comments? eom

[trotsky]

23. If I do, will you answer my question? n/t

[Loki Liesmith]

29. Insufferable

The path of Christ. Jebus I’m an atheist and I know what he’s talking about. I suspect you do as well. So why the persistent trolling?

[trotsky]

34. Of course I know what he means. The problem is that he's trying to have it both ways.

You'll note he is aware of the hypocrisy of referring to "the" path, because he won't respond, and instead engages in a personal attack on me. As you just did.

[Major Nikon]

36. If it's such a simple question why didn't he answer it?

[Zoonart]

3. It was simply refreshing to see a movie about a

truly NICE person. An exceptional human being. There seem to be so few.

Everything else is about killing and superheroes and human monsters.

Clue: there are no superheroes. Only humans, good ones and bad ones, and the bad ones get all the ink.

[guillaumeb]

4. An excellent ending.

Yes, there are only imperfect humans.

Some, like Trump, seem to deliberately choose to be negative. And that is so sad, and such a waste of potential.

[Zoonart]

6. Yes...really uplifting.

[trotsky]

7. "Some, like Trump, seem to deliberately choose to be negative."

Sometimes people like Trump are taught to be negative.

Children who are abused by parents are more likely to grow up to be abusers themselves.

How much do they "choose" their behavior then?

[guillaumeb]

16. How much does anyone choose?

All who are abused do not abuse.

We choose.

[trotsky]

19. But those who are abused are more likely to abuse.

So clearly, the choice is not equally free for all to make.

So much for free will.

[guillaumeb]

21. So free will is an illusion?

And anything is acceptable because free will does not exist?

[trotsky]

24. When there are clearly outside factors that help determine choices people make...

then it's pretty conclusively demonstrated that free will (as you and most believers portray it) is an illusion.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

[guillaumeb]

25. I am confused.

I asserted that people choose to molest. And that not all who are molested behave that way toward others. If you assert that free will is an illusion, anything that anyone does is out of their control, correct?

If however, these factors might merely play a part in how people make their choices, that argues for free will.

[trotsky]

33. According to your viewpoint, yes, people do "choose" to abuse.

However, people who were abused as children are statistically more likely to "choose" to abuse.

Why is that?

If free will is truly free, and everyone is equally likely to "choose" to abuse, then why are the children of abusers more likely to?

The clear answer is that we don't have truly "free" will. Our experiences shape us in many ways, they influence our decisions, and we don't control all of them.

[guillaumeb]

38. We are blank slates at birth.

And of course our experiences influence us. And, to my knowledge, no one here has argued that humans have unfettered free will.

[Voltaire2]

42. Uh that's patent nonsense.

We are not blank slates at birth.

[guillaumeb]

44. Humans are born with certain reflexes.

And humans require a long period of socialization.

[Voltaire2]

47. maybe you should read up on infant cognitive development

especially regarding twin studies and how they pretty much rule out tabula rasa models.

[trotsky]

43. "no one here has argued that humans have unfettered free will"

You sort of have. The problem is that you feel "unfettered" means that we would have the ability to fly if we chose, or ignore other such physical restrictions.

But that's not what I'm talking about, and you've never addressed this aspect. I'm talking about things we've experienced and things we've learned that affect us in ways we aren't consciously aware, and influence our decision-making. In other words, we are NOT all making the same "free" choice all the time.

Do you understand the distinction?

[guillaumeb]

45. Your first accusation is unsupportable.

As to your second point, no one argues to the contrary here.

[trotsky]

50. You have argued to the contrary here, and you literally did it right in this thread.

Or have you changed your position? Do you now acknowledge that factors outside of a person's control can influence their decisions, thus making their will not totally "free"?

[trotsky]

53. You always give up when the questions get hard.

Why is that?

[guillaumeb]

54. It is useless to respond to a non-fact based narrative.

Your questions are not difficult, they are simply unsupported by fact.

And with that, perhaps you should see the movie and give a review.

[trotsky]

55. As a reminder, here's the question:

Do you now acknowledge that factors outside of a person's control can influence their decisions, thus making their will not totally "free"?

It's a yes/no question.

If there is a problem with the question, please explain what it is.

This isn't difficult. IF you are interested in dialog, that is. If all you want to do is insult and attack me, then it's very difficult to answer i guess.

So what'll it be? Dialog or more insults?

[guillaumeb]

56. It posits a change from a previous position.

And the premise is unsupported.

Dialogue, contrary to what you are doing here, does not consist in mis-framing and accusing based on mis-framing. Your mis-framing is itself insulting to the subject of the insults. You obviously do not realize it. Or you do.

[trotsky]

57. LOL

Is that really the best you can do?

If I mis-framed, then explain how I mis-framed. Have you always acknowledged that factors outside our control can affect our decision-making, thus restricting our free will?

[guillaumeb]

58. One of your better responses.

But it does demonstrate your professed commitment to dialogue.

[trotsky]

59. Well have you?

I'm asking the question on your new terms. Will you answer it now? Or insult me some more?

Be the Christian you want the world to see, g.

[guillaumeb]

60. Great job promoting dialogue.

But regulars here have seen this so often that it is, sadly, expected now. So many no longer post here in this Group because of the atmosphere.

[trotsky]

61. Do you do anything to help the atmosphere, g?

You could start by answering my simple question.

Turn the page. Let's change things. Let's dialog. I am willing - are you?

[Voltaire2]

41. Yes.

[guillaumeb]

46. And that excuses anything?

Interesting position.

[Voltaire2]

48. Where did I state "that excuses anything"?

It does however call into serious question punishment theories of criminal justice, and of course christian theology.

[guillaumeb]

49. If free will is an illlusion,

can anyone truly be guilty?

[Voltaire2]

51. Not in the sense you mean.

Anti social people aren’t evil or bad or sinners. They have behavior problems that may require isolation from society, and perhaps rehabilitative training. Like a dog that shits in the house. Beating the dog or the person accomplishes nothing

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Well, it's a good thing Trump's a christian with a wake of head-nodding evangelicals to support

his ass.

That'll fix everything. Religion is totally necessary and makes everything better, doesn't it?

[FM123]

52. Yes!

a truly NICE person. An exceptional human being. There seem to be so few.

[getagrip_already]

9. for those interested, there is a documentary on fred rogers out on netflix ...

either that or hbo. I'm not sure which but it is up now; I saw at a relatives house recently. I haven't seen the movie but the documentary was very well done.

[guillaumeb]

17. I have not seen it to date, but I plan on doing so.

Thank you for the suggestion.

[Cartoonist]

13. No, he was a mortal human being

Just like that Jesus fellow, if he existed. There is no Messiah.

Why can't we accept reality instead of making up superheroes?

[Major Nikon]

27. The evidence for Fred Rogers as the messiah is just as good

Better really when you consider there’s a much better record of his acts.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

40. And we know Fred Rogers actually existed.

[tblue37]

14. Closer to a bodhisattva, maybe. nt

[getagrip_already]

22. I prefer his indica's myself....

[guillaumeb]

26. His behavior?

If heaven is a state of mind, rather than a place. one might argue that Rogers found heaven.

[tblue37]

32. His compassion. nt

[MontanaMama]

28. I can't wait to see the film.

My husband isn’t wild about going with me but he promised. I anticipate bawling through the whole thing. I think Fred Rogers might be one of the best people I ever came across. I got to meet him when I was 10 and my family was invited to the Kennedy home, Hickory Hill, in 1974. Mr. Rogers was there to hang with the kids. I remember being mesmerized by him. All the kids were. It just felt good to be near him and listen to him.

[Docreed2003]

31. What an incredible experience

Thanks for sharing your story!

[guillaumeb]

39. Thank you for sharing your experience.

I never actually watched the program, but I have read about his message.

[Karadeniz]

30. Hmmm...there's no need for a messiah, especially based on Jesus's real teachings. His

Teachings are all about individual soul development as being how one qualifies to be exempt from the death cycle which is reincarnation. We are each our souls messiah.

[MineralMan]

35. He was just a very nice man who behaved like one.

Maybe he followed Christian teachings, rather than ignoring them, but I don't know. He was a good guy, though.