Who needed Judas?

[Cartoonist]

What was his crime again? He fingered Jesus? As if Jesus was in hiding, or nobody knew who he was.

Wasn't he last seen standing on a Mount, or handing out fishes and loaves? Who picked up the tab at the Last Supper? I'll bet even the waiter knew who he was.

It was all just a bit of drama. Something a bad novelist would add to a work of fiction that needed a little intrigue. A hole in the plot.

[Major Nikon]

1. If Jesus wasn't a criminal to begin with, what did he have to worry about?

It's also worth pointing out when they arrested Jesus, they caught him with a nude boy.

It could very well be that Jesus was really the bad guy here, but just had a better publicist.

[Karadeniz]

4. There is a school of thought that the original movement consisted of different levels, from

"Children" ( beginners, newly committed) to the mature. The newbies are thought to have declared their commitment by undergoing a baptism by immersion. The Way they embarked upon renounced materialism, encouraged vegetarianism, pledged to behave with lovingkindness and attend learning sessions and group celebrations. Candidates for the highest level may have undergone an experience such as the mystery religions (notably the eleuthran mystery) provided, a psychic/spiritual event. As one ancient commentator post-Eleuthra said, one would never again fear death. Day 1 of the Eleuthran consisted of swimming in the sea with piglets...compare Jesus's casting demons into pigs and their jumping into the sea...quite reminiscent. And Paul said he practiced a mystery and he used different terms to describe his followers' different spiritual levels. Jesus insisted Lazarus wasn't dead and, sho nuff, he wasn't...just all dressed up for his death. The naked youth may have been naked beneath his cape in preparation for his psychic/spiritual initiation.

There are lots of ideas from cannibalism to homosexuality bandied about to explain the original communities. I think it was a type of mystery religion. The huge difference from it and the others is that this one dictated an earthly lifestyle, how to live, in addition to teaching the spiritual God System.

[Major Nikon]

6. Betrays a much simpler explanation

Just sayin'

[Anon-C]

2. Actually there was a Gnostic sect, the Cainites, that revered Judas.

True story!

[Ferrets are Cool]

3. Just another part of the fairy tale.

It's why you can't dig deep into that novel without finding 1000's of contradictions.

[keithbvadu2]

5. Judas got 30 pieces of silver, but just once, for selling Christ.

Judas was an early modern day conservative disciple.

Judas got 30 pieces of silver, but just once, for selling Christ.

Pat Robertson, Jim Bakker and their ilk get millions of dollars repeatedly for selling Christ.

Judas was a fool for doing a one-time sale.
------------------------

[uriel1972]

7. without Judas there is no Christ story....

[Cartoonist]

8. How do you figure?

A totally unnecessary character.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, it's story-telling, isn't it?

Judas is Jesus's Nemesis. His supposed betrayal is a key element in the overall story. The whole thing is a a story, finely honed, that evokes an emotional response in its audience.

The entire Bible comes from the ancient oral story-telling tradition. Over centuries the art of telling a story to trigger action or establish beliefs developed through experience in what moved the audience.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. No judas, prophecy can't be fulfilled, and the whole Jesus narrative would have had to be

re-written.

Copy editors can only take so much.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

11. If that's true, why do so many argue he is in hell?

Why is he a villain. He needed to do what he did in order for the Christ story to come about.

But, really, that's some pretty crappy storytelling. At least put some real barrier that Judas needs to overcome. All he did is say where he was going to be. The authorities could have figured that out.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. Sunt Leones

My point which up to this has been obscured
is that it was the lions who procured
By chewing up blood gristle flesh and bone
The martyrdoms on which the Church has grown.
I only write this poem because I thought it rather looked
As if the part the lions played was being overlooked.
By lions’ jaws great benefits and blessings were begotten
And so our debt to Lionhood must never be forgotten.

Stevie Smith, "SUNT LEONES" 1972

[edhopper]

12. Another illustration of God being a dick

Judas has to betray Jesus for him to "die for our sins", so he sets Judas up as the fall guy and Jesus even tells him to do what he must.
Without Judas, we don't get all the torture porn that follows.
Did Judas have free will if his act was per-ordained?