Critic Who Exposed China's Muslim Camps is Detained, Even Across the Border

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

For six days a week, every week, in a crowded office in Kazakhstan’s largest city, Serikzhan Bilash had been ringmaster of one of the most influential efforts detailing China’s internment of Muslim minorities....

The police detained him early Sunday in Almaty, the city in southeastern Kazakhstan where his organization is, and flew him to the capital, Astana, where he was placed under house arrest....

In the months before his detention, he warned that the Chinese authorities were trying to use their influence in Kazakhstan to silence his group...

The Chinese authorities have bristled at foreign criticism of the camps. First, officials denied their existence, then they said the camps were part of a training program for poor Uighurs, Kazakhs and other minorities to help them find jobs and resist extremist ideologies. On Tuesday, a Xinjiang official said the camps were “like boarding schools.”

To read more:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/13/world/asia/china-kazakh-activist-camps-xinjiang-muslims.html

We all know that intolerance is a universal behavior. In this case, the officially atheist Chinese Government puts theists in jail for the crime of theism.

[Major Nikon]

1. We all know that when religionists use religion to further intolerance...

Religion is to blame.

[edhopper]

2. Religion is therefore no different from any other human institution

therefore there is nothing unique or divine about religion.
Therefore God has no effect on religion.
Therefore God has no effect on humanity or God does not exist.
It's one or the other.

[MineralMan]

3. Yes, China dislikes anyone who interferes with its policies.

It's not a bastion of freedom, to put it mildly.

[guillaumeb]

5. I agree.

And the Chinese, on their side, have suffered through many attempts by outside countries to exercise power.

[marylandblue]

4. What about theists who make sarcastic non sequiturs to atheists?

That's also intolerance. Do you condemn that as much as Chinese extra-judicial rendition?

[guillaumeb]

6. What do you think the motivation is for the sarcastic replies?

I would argue that, at most, it is impolite.

But, your diversion aside, what did you think of the article?

[Major Nikon]

8. Yeah, whatabout those Chinese atheists?

[marylandblue]

9. Everybody apparently distracts here all the time. I try not to, but

but it's a human characteristic. I've also learned in this group that all bad human interactions are intolerance and all intolerance is tribal, and tribalism is a universal human characteristic. Therefore I thought I was out of step by being insufficiently tribal and tried to act more human, lest I be expelled from the tribe or suffer some other tribal punishment.

With that for an explanation of my all too human behavior, the article (and all other articles you have posted about this issue) severely downplay the ethnic, geopolitical, economic and historical dimensions of the oppression, likely because the reporters focus on the main thing they understand, "Muslims."

You apparently do this on thread after thread after thread to make a claim that "atheists" oppress "theists" for a situation that probably has more to do with millenia-old attempts by China to control the Central Asian steppes.

It's not clear why you want make this point on thread after thread after thread after thread other than your stated desire to point out the painfully obvious (lest anyone miss the all-important obvious) which has the (surely unintentional but IMO unfortunate) effect of distracting from the details of whatever the OP is about.

In this case, I find it interesting that Turkey, and not, say Morocco is defending Muslim Kazakhs, but as the interesting parts of that have little to religion(since Morocco also is a Muslim country, why don't they care about other Muslims?) I'll refrain from raising those issues here, as this is the Religion Group, not the Central Asian Geopolitics Group. However I'll note that anyone with at least a little knowledge of Central Asia would see the obvious connections missed by the article.

[Mariana]

10. Gil is rather one-sided in his criticism of intolerance.

He has previously ridiculed atheist recipients of credible death threats from Christians in the US, some of whom have been children.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218270285#post1

[marylandblue]

14. Well apparently all behavior is universal except when it's a lone nutjob

in which one may give tacit approval to threats in order to defend the faith.

[guillaumeb]

11. Speaking of the "thread after thread" tactic,

what is your opinion of the possibly hundreds of individual posts that focus on a particular incident of child abuse by priests?

Is it an attempt to flood the Religion Group with these posts?

My congratulations on your opening paragraph.

As to the "why" of my posts on China, and the repression of theists by the Chinese Government, they should serve as counterpoint to the far more frequent posts about theists oppressing others. And a reminder that, no matter the group, human behavior is consistent.

[marylandblue]

13. As I mentioned in another post, human behavior is actually inconsistent

So the thing you are "reminding" people of was never true to begin with.

My opinion on Catholic priest child abuse issues is tjat gets a lot of attention for perfectly understandable and obvious reasons that are in fact grounded in human psychology. Not assumed "universal" psychology as you like use, but behaviors that have been researched and are seen to be common (though not "universal" ). So there is nothing to be surprised about and there is no nefarious conspiracy to make the RCC look bad.

[guillaumeb]

17. I disagree.

The double standard is obvious.

The same type of post can be made 999 times about the RCC, with the same responses. So posting for the 1000th time reveals nothing new.

[marylandblue]

20. I know you disagree. But it's not a double standard.

That's because the RCC is not the Chinese Government. They are two different things that have very little common with each other. The posts about the RCC are not all the same. They say different things. I really think you either don't read them, or don't care about what they have to say, or why it might bother people here more than some other things. And that appears to be because you are unable to make moral distinctions. You seem to have trouble making any kind of distinctions at all. If you can't distinguish colors, then everything does appear to be black and white. But other's will still see a panoply of colors no matter how much you claim it's "obvious" there is only black and white.

[trotsky]

23. Sadly, each story is new. And since the RCC still hasn't taken any serious steps to address it,

there is nothing wrong with people posting news stories to additionally shame the institution (and people like you who make excuses for it).

If the RCC quit raping children, protecting rapists, and covering up the crimes, then the stories wouldn't need to be posted.

Get mad at your (former?) church and its behavior, not the people who are calling attention to it.

[Major Nikon]

26. Classic child rape apologia

Which is a big part of the reason child rapes will continue in the RCC. The reason the RCC doesn't feel the need to take meaningful steps to do anything about religion's culture of child rape is because so many Christians are providing cover for the child rapists.

[guillaumeb]

29. Classic misreading of the actual response.

Actually, expected at this point.

In spite of your provocative heading, it is obvious how your claims are taken.

[Major Nikon]

30. Classic duplicity

[guillaumeb]

32. That also.

Thank you for admitting it.

[Major Nikon]

33. Your "I'm rubber you're glue" canned response was banal the first time

After you’ve pulled that one a few dozen additional times you are approaching the intellectual value of a 2yr old beating on a drum repeatedly.

[Voltaire2]

15. That reminds me.

[Major Nikon]

19. There is a bit of a difference

At least Gil is now admitting the reason for his shitposting is to try and deflect blame from the culture of child rape that exists within religious institutions. So while the behavior is no less deplorable, at least now we have confirmation on what the motivation is.

[NeoGreen]

21. That is why I will be bookmarking...

...post #11.

Plus he seems to think that all the posts condemning the RCC's coverup are all relative to one "particular incident".

11. Speaking of the "thread after thread" tactic, what is your opinion of the possibly hundreds of individual posts that focus on a particular incident of child abuse by priests?

Emphasis added.

[trotsky]

24. That's been his M.O. for a long time.

He sees something that upsets him, and so he lashes out inappropriately.

[Major Nikon]

25. The most deplorable part is it's not the child rape that upsets him

What upsets him so much is people are talking about how religion has enabled a multi-national culture of child rape on a biblical scale.

You also have the proof the reason for his shitposting is the epitome of whataboutism. It's a blatant attempt to deflect from bad news about religion which upsets him. It's not as if we didn't already know this, just it's strange he would actually admit to it.

[trotsky]

27. "it's strange he would actually admit to it."

In a way, I don't find it strange at all. He has also claimed to have a large invisible following, encouraging him every step of the way. Despite spamming the group with posts about China, people continue to post news stories about abuse in the RCC. He's so desperate to stop that, he's now blatantly throwing out his "deal": Stop posting bad news stories about religion, and I'll stop my shitposting.

No deal. Religious bigotry and intolerance need to be called out.

[littlemissmartypants]

7. Some days this place is too deep for me. nt

[guillaumeb]

12. That is why I always wear a life vest while swimming here.

Have a nice week end.

[littlemissmartypants]

16. Hahaha. Thanks.

At least you don't feel the need for a haz mat suit. Yet.



I hope you have a nice weekend, too, guillaumeb. Keep the faith.

[guillaumeb]

18. No need for one. eom

[trotsky]

22. Why are you spreading falsehoods?

"the officially atheist Chinese Government puts theists in jail for the crime of theism."

You are 100% WRONG and spreading misinformation. Mike Pence may agree with this position, but reasonable people do not.

The Chinese Government jails people for opposing the state. Period. Whether they are theists or atheists, it doesn't matter. If you speak out against the government or pose any kind of threat, you are arrested.

If they arrested people for "theism" then there would be no theists free in the country. But there are millions.

So stop with the lies. Your virulent hatred is really ugly.

[guillaumeb]

28. I understand the the posts on China upset you, and a few others here.

And the re-education camps for theists do sound brutal.

[Major Nikon]

31. You've already admitted the reason for your ad nauseum China shitposts is you are butthurt

...over the bad press about your church.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=309626

I suppose you can try and project that behavior on others, but it's going to fly about as well as a brick. Still the attempt does offer a fair amount of entertainment value, so there's that.