"My Religion Is Truth. Yours Is Just Worthless Words."

[MineralMan]

And that's all there is to it. That firmly held belief is the core flaw in all religion.

Really, nothing more need be said.

[Act_of_Reparation]

1. Or the ethnocentric, white yuppie alternative:

"All religions basically say the same thing."

[MineralMan]

3. Actually, though, they clearly don't.

I know you know that, of course.

Another one:

"Religion is a force for good."

I haven't seen much evidence for that one, either.

[trotsky]

4. "All religions basically say the same thing..."

generally followed by (silently, to one's self) "...which just so happens to line up perfectly with my personal beliefs."

[Act_of_Reparation]

7. Yeah, they all say liberal Christianity...

...conveniently enough.

[MineralMan]

10. Most people who say such things have no knowledge of

other religions, really. It's just something that makes them feel better when they say it.

[marylandblue]

2. Not all religions say this. It's mainly the Abrahamic religions that do.

And nowadays, only in conservative versions.

[MineralMan]

5. The Two Largest Denominations of Christianity Say That, Exactly.

Which major religions accept the scriptures of other religions as truth?

[marylandblue]

6. It's not about accepting others as true or not true.

Official Catholic doctrine is now that people can find God through other religions because there it least some inspiration in them. Been this way since Vatican II, I think.

on edit: Hinduism says all gods of all religions reflect the infinite Brahma. Buddhism is officially agnostic.

[MineralMan]

8. I see. Here's some information about Hinduism's view of Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_other_religions

Ask the Pope if he thinks Hindu scriptures are of God. See what he says about that.
Ask some Southern Baptist leaders the same question.

[marylandblue]

11. I didn't say NO religion believes it is absolute truth

I said not all do. In your link, I mainly saw a diversity of Hindu views which mostly criticized Christianity for being to exclusive, not an unreasonable position for a conquered people forced to let missionaries run around the country. The Hindu position I've given you is from rank and file Hindus I've spoken to, also stuff I've read, but it was quite a while ago, pre-internet.

[MineralMan]

12. Here's the thing: Most religions think they are the true religion.

The degree to which that is true, varies, as do almost all things.

As a rule, you will not find followers of any particular religion studying the teachings of other religions. Some might look into them, but almost none study those other teachings with any particular vigor.

Few Christians, for example, have any knowledge at all of Hinduism, and precious little about Islam. The converse is also true, in most cases. A few scholars study comparative religions, but that's about it.

The reason for that is simple. People are taught that their religion is the correct one, by the very people who lead whatever religion is being followed. There's no reason to study other religions if yours is the correct one.

There are exceptions, of course, but they are not common. Some people do take courses in comparative religion at college or university. Typically, such courses are just a semester and intensive study is not required. I remember such a course from my own college days. To say it was not rigorous would be an understatement.

Followers of most religions are not only not encouraged to learn the beliefs of other religions, they are generally discouraged from doing so. Frankly, most ordinary congregation members don't even study their own faith very rigorously. Anyone who has attended Bible study classes knows that study is fragmentary, at best, and focused on such scriptures as reinforce the teachings of the particular denomination.

The common belief of most religionists is the one I summarized in my thread title. Ignorance is bliss in most cases. Too much study of religion often leads to abandonment of religion. Ask most atheists if they have read all or parts of multiple religious scriptures. Knowledge leads to enlightenment.

At the core of most people's religious thinking is that their religion is the correct ones and that others are incorrect. Of course you can find exceptions. I qualify my statement with the word "most."

[marylandblue]

23. Well, you said it was "core flaw" in all religion

Even if you change that to core flaw in most religion, I am not sure I would agree. It doesn't really matter whether the rank and file study this or that. I think it's more a matter of their attitudes towards others, not how much they actually know. And that varies a lot.

The idea that there is one exclusive right religion and the others are all nonsense is Jewish invention from late Old Testament times. Even then they didn't care what other nations believed one way or the other, and Jews today mostly still don't.. Christianity then Islam picked up the idea and added that everybody had to follow the one true religion. In the East and pre-Christian West there was no idea of exclusivity and a much more free exchange of ideas. Modern liberal Christians aren't exclusive and many don't believe other religions are nonsense, they just say they are different paths.

So I stand by my statement that.exclusivity is not a core flaw of religion, just some versions of Western religion. Specifically, conservative versions.

Which leads me to what I do think is a core flaw of religion. It tends to be conservative and hierarchical. It's got a built-in conservativism because it is looking to a past when an absolute truth was revealed. As I said, you do get liberal religion, but liberals have to overcome the conservative bias to get there.

[MineralMan]

25. I still say it is the core flaw.

That is what is taught to the average follower. Right down to the denomination. I remember being taught that it would be sinful to go to a Mass in the Catholic Church across the street from the church I attended as a child. I clearly remember wondering why that would be so, since both worshiped the same deity system.

Then, there were the Chick Tracts about the "Death Cookie," and other anti-Catholic nonsense. It's not a matter of what the leaders of Christianity think. It's about what is being taught. I'm sure the little Catholic kids were being taught to stay away from my childhood church, too. None ever stepped inside its door. Some people would even refuse to go to a wedding or a funeral at a different church. As teens, we were even warned not to date Catholics to avoid being "yoked unequally." And that was a Presbyterian Church, for pete's sake. Catholic kids got similar warnings.

And that's within Christianity. Teachings about exclusivity are common. Which returns me to the "core flaw" idea.

We're talking about this religion stuff from a relatively objective distance. Nobody pays any attention to us, really. The teachings still go on. Read the current Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. That's where the core of the church lies. That is what is being taught.

[Act_of_Reparation]

9. It is still the Church's position that theirs is the mostest correctest.

They've only conceeded that being Catholic isn't a prerequisite for salvation. They still maintain that if you want to do this Christianity thing the right way, you gotta do it the rite way (ba dum tssssss).

I'm available for birthday parties, weddings, and the occasional bris.

[Major Nikon]

17. I'm not sure how Buddhism is officially anything

There's lots of variation, including theistic.

[marylandblue]

18. There is a lot of variation, but if we go that route

There's a lot of variation in all religion, so making generalizations about it is dangerous. Even where there is scripture or official doctrine, actual practice may be totally different.

[Major Nikon]

21. In the case of the RCC, there is an official doctrine

So one can make generalizations based on what that official source instructs. No such thing exists with Buddhism.

[marylandblue]

24. Yes, that's true, so I'll qualify a bit.

Based on early writings, Buddha was apparently agnostic, and there remains an agnostic tendency in Buddhism.

[Soph0571]

13. My religion is the best religion

My religion is the purest religion

My religion damns your religion to hell

Only we have the truth

You are damned if you do not follow our religion

Send every fundamentalist ever....

[MineralMan]

14. "My God Is an Awesome God!"

"Your God Has a Funny Name!"

[Soph0571]

15. And we were all born in Gods own country....

[MineralMan]

16. You Betcha!

[Major Nikon]

19. You don't have to be an exclusivist to be a religionist

...but it's a great start.

It's pretty hard to define incontrovertible doctrine and reconcile that with others who don't subscribe to those incontrovertible truths.

The most quoted bible verse among Christians is John 3:16. If you read this verse by itself it sounds pretty exclusivist. Any remaining doubts are destroyed by the following two verses.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

[MineralMan]

20. That's about as clear as it can get.

Believe or be damned. Not much way around that verse.

[Major Nikon]

22. Sure there is. You just claim it's all metaphorical and actually means something entirely different.

Not hard to do. All that's required is the abandonment of reason which is already required to begin with.

[LongtimeAZDem]

26. The old joke sums it up

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"

He said, "Nobody loves me."

I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes."

I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"

He said, "A Christian."

I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"

He said, "Protestant."

I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"

He said, "Baptist."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Baptist."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."

I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.

I said, "Die, heretic!", and I pushed him off the bridge.

[PJMcK]

27. You win!

Which Christian sect is god’s favorite?

(crickets)

[Iggo]

36. Emo!

[PJMcK]

28. I get so confused!

Which sect of Christianity guarantees my unequivocal entrance into Heaven?

They all claim exclusivity which is weird because that’s not what Jesus preached.

If I cared... oh, shit. I really don’t care.

[MineralMan]

29. You should join three or four different ones, just to make sure.

I recommend becoming a Catholic Methodist Pentecostalist Hindu Muslim. That would cover pretty much everything.

[PJMcK]

30. Good Dog!

Now I’m really confused.

Or not.

But thanks for the inclusive suggestion!

[uriel1972]

31. Actually, I think he did say something...

about following him, or be damned.

[PJMcK]

33. Yeah, but all these different groups claim to speak in Jesus's name

It’s really hard to follow.

[guillaumeb]

32. My opinion is truth. Yours is just worthless words.

A slight restatement that says essentially the same thing as yours.

And that is all that needs to be said.

[MineralMan]

34. You have convinced yourself of that.

[guillaumeb]

35. Yes, you have.

Dueling beliefs.

[Bretton Garcia]

37. Not all beliefs are the same

Any alleged 1) "belief" in reason and science is backed by a thousand years of visible evidence, advancing technology, prosperity. 2) Belief in Christianity provides no visible provable evidence at all. In fact, evidence strongly contradicts its major assertions.

Religion provides no evidence, but relies just on raw egotism and vanity. The satisfaction of thinking you are right, better, with no evidence offered.