So, What Does the Word "Christian" Mean?

[MineralMan]

Apparently, it means many different things, depending on whom you ask. In other words, it has a variable meaning. Many words are like that. "Faith," "Belief," "Truth," "Framing," "Commandment," and so on. Here's a quote that seems pertinent:

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”

- Lewis Carroll

[edhopper]

1. Which thead are we referencing?

this forum is getting very Meta.

[MineralMan]

2. This is a general post, which refers to no particular thread at all.

It's a post designed to stimulate discussion. The question of the meaning of words, has special significance when religion is the topic, as it is in this group. Often, arguments develop, based on confusion about what words actually mean.

Lewis Carroll was an interesting figure, where religion is concerned. His father was a devout Anglican. Lewis Carroll, in his later years, however, became fascinated by Theosophy, and hung about with people like Madame Blavatsky and her ilk. Much study has gone into his works, from a religious perspective, and he was an influence on C.S. Lewis and others.

[edhopper]

3. Okay

my question would be do you have to believe that the resurrection of Jesus to be a Christian?
Do you have to believe in his divinity.

My definition would be yes.

[Pantagruel]

4. Anyone who can reverse death

would get my vote as a demi-god at the minimum.
Sadly, no credible reports of same in over 2000 years.

[MineralMan]

8. Well, it happens quite frequently in hospitals.

On a daily basis, really. Many people who physically die are returned to continue living by skilled medical teams. Without those teams, almost all of them would be dead. In far too many cases, the patient later wishes they had let him or her go, in my experience.

Fortunately, one can complete an "Advance Healthcare Directive" these days to prevent unwanted resurrections.

[Pantagruel]

17. Not my point,

not talking about technically dead people being revived.
I mean stone cold DEAD being brought back-show me one credible instance and that "reviver" will qualify in my mind as godlike.

[MineralMan]

18. Well, see, I can't show you such an instance.

Nobody can. They can, however, write about such an instance, long after it was supposed to have happened, and get people to believe that. Amazing, huh?

[MineralMan]

5. Well, that's an almost universal belief among Christians.

It's part of all of the major Creeds, as used by most denominations. However, there are some Christian sects who look at that question a little askance. Some non-trinitarian denominations do not hold Jesus as part of the tree-headed god. However, they still believe the crucifixion and resurrection part of the story.

Then, there are denominations like the Christian Scientists, who have their own take on the whole thing. One can quickly get mired in arcane theology by following that path, which often leads down one rabbit hole or another. Then, hallucinatory characters show up and everything gets like soup - all mixed up.

[Major Nikon]

10. That's not what the original Christians believed, tho

[MineralMan]

13. But the Romans took care of that nonsense.

They had a mission for Christianity, and re-formed it in their model.

[Major Nikon]

16. Centuries later, yes

There were no shortage of Christians who had deified Christ by that time, but many had gone other directions. What the Romans did was to unify them into a common belief system through the systematic destruction of non-adherents and their documents.

[MineralMan]

19. Yes. Christianity, as we know it today, is on the Roman model.

All of those heretics were done for by the Romans. We still have a few glimpses of the early church, but even those have been colored carefully. Christianity now is thoroughly westernized, clarified, and has been put through a very fine filter to strain out such stuff.

Even Jesus got a hair bleach job and blue-colored contacts in a lot of Christian art. No short, swarthy Savior he.

[edhopper]

14. Which ones?

Wasn't that part of the writings of Paul and the earliest Gospel?

[Major Nikon]

15. Not part of the earliest gospel

If you look at the synoptic gospels from the perspective of first century Jews, there's nothing in them that indicates the divinity of Christ.

[edhopper]

20. Hmmm?

but the resurrection was in there.

interesting. I guess the "who is a true Christian" started right after Yeshua left.

[Major Nikon]

21. The concept of resurrection pre-dates the time of Christ

It was popularized in Judaism by the Pharisees, of which Paul was an adherent. So it wasn't as if Christians came up with the idea of resurrection or that it had anything to do with deifying someone.

[edhopper]

22. good points

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. It means "My parents were Christian"

By and large anyway.

[trotsky]

7. For most Christians, it means the set of beliefs that THEY have.

Not those other people who call themselves Christians.

Emo Phillips has the classic bit:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

[MineralMan]

9. A wonderful bit of dialog, that is.

[MichMary]

11. Well,

my mother was an evangelical, fundamentalist, Biblical literalist. My dh is Catholic. My mother once told him she didn't consider him a Christian, even though he believes in the virgin birth, resurrection, etc.

So, pretty much it means whatever the speaker wants it to mean.

[MineralMan]

12. Just as Humpty Dumpty said,

clever lad that he was.

[guillaumeb]

23. If a percentage of atheists believe in a higher power,

what does the word atheist mean?

[MineralMan]

24. Now, that's off-topic.

I can't answer, because I'm not one of those atheists. If you can find one, you could ask that person.

I'm an atheist who does not believe that any deities of similar entities exist at all, but you knew that.

[guillaumeb]

25. Words can be flexible.

Some call concentration camps re-education camps.

But you knew that.

[Eko]

27. Of course there is a higher power.

160 watts is way more than 20 watts.

[guillaumeb]

28. Watt is your point? eom

[Eko]

29. Even Atheists believe in a higher power,

120 watts is more than 20 watts, a higher power.

[guillaumeb]

30. Electrifying insight.

[Eko]

31. I bet you are a lot of fun at parties.

I guess you kind of missed the point of the post and would rather just further your narrative. Whatevs!!!

[guillaumeb]

32. All part of the electric theme.

[Eko]

33. I thought it was a power theme.

Could have used horsepower also.

[guillaumeb]

34. I ran out of gas.

[Eko]

35. You could just go Nuclear.

[elleng]

26. Not much.