According to one person here, child sexual abuse is inevitable

[MineralMan]

and happens everywhere, committed by all sorts of people. So, there's no point in making priests and other church officials mandatory reporters, the thinking goes. They should not report people who confess their acts to them. It won't stop all child sexual abuse, so why bother? That appears to be the logic in use. So, there's no point in making them report instances of such confessed abuse to the authorities, since everyone is a potential child sexual abuser and instances of child sexual abuse will still occur.

There's something wrong with that logic, I'm certain. But, everyone makes logical errors sometimes, so it doesn't matter, I guess.

[Voltaire2]

1. It is almost as if somebody was making excuses

for an institution with a centuries long history of protecting and enabling child abuse.

[MineralMan]

2. It's difficult to even follow the illogic being used.

When the confessors are part of the crime, everything breaks down. No doubt, some of those who confessed their heinous acts were doing so to someone who also sexually abused children. The problem was widespread and endemic in that patriarchal closed culture.

Here's some genuine logic:

Sexually abusing children is illegal, and is a crime punishable by imprisonment.
Abusers who are prosecuted and imprisoned cannot commit that crime while in prison.
Ergo: Exposing and prosecuting offenders reduces the number of children who are abused by reducing opportunities for abuse.

[Major Nikon]

4. An even bigger factor is the deterrent

For a potential child rapist it's the difference between knowing your child raping is going to be handled in house if discovered with no criminal penalties vs the assurance it's going to be reported to law enforcement.

You also have the fact that up until now there has been virtually no legal accountability for those who enable child rape, specifically because the law excludes them.

[MineralMan]

5. I think the deterrent effect is really not a big factor in child sexual abuse.

It should be, but, people who commit such crimes are driven by powerful urges they are unable to control, I think. There's psychopathology working in pedophiles and other sexual abusers of minors.

Segregating them from their victims seems to me to be the most effective way to reduce predation. That's why criminal prosecution is so important in prevention. A child sexual abuser who is behind bars or locked doors cannot prey on children. Anything short of that seems to be ineffective.

That's why shielding such offenders within an organization is such a horrendous thing. It gives the offenders not only shelter, but access to victims. That's the horrifying effect that has led to the scandals we're seeing in the RCC right now. Worse, there doesn't seem to be a strong effort to reduce that effect, really. Just words.

[Major Nikon]

7. Consider why a potential child rapist would be attracted to a priest job in the first place

Nobody is going to question why you have no adult sexual relationships and spend a lot of time which children. Add to that the ability to network with other child rapists, free paid legal in the unlikely event you are caught which is made far more unlikely by the wall of secrecy your employer maintains.

It's well past time to tear down that wall, and yet some inexplicably think it's a good idea for it to stand.

[MineralMan]

10. Yes, of course. The RCC is full of voluntary celibates.

They have some of the same characteristics as incels, including personal insecurities that interfere with their relationships with other adults. Sadly, their occupation puts them in contact with potential victims who often have their own insecurities that can be exploited.

Having a secretive hierarchy and organization that protects you is a powerful attractant in many ways.

Most priests never do anything to harm anyone. They use the protection of the church to enable them to function as best they can. Being seen as a shepherd and a spiritual leader and having a fixed liturgy and system in which to operate has great value to them.

Sadly, though, there are others who see the organization as an opportunity to gain access to potential victims. They are in the minority, of course, but have unique opportunities that aren't found in other organizations, along with the secrecy and protections you mention. It can be a toxic combination that is certain to harm the naive and faithful.

[marylandblue]

13. The whole celibacy thing makes the church vulnerable

Richard Sipe a former priest and sexual abuse expert did a small study of celibacy in the priesthood and found 50% did not keep their vows. This includes masturbation, homosexuality, love affairs and visiting prostitutes. All equally sinful in the eyes of the Church. So the normal behavior of lonely men becomes a secret shame if you are a priest. And of course, you have to confess these sins to each other. So they have one big shared secret - the Holy Church is actually full of horny old men.

I think this is why they are having such difficulty handling the child abuse problem. They can't handle their own repressed sexuality. Of course they can't handle the sex crimes either.

[MineralMan]

15. Horny young men, too.

I have personally known three people my own age who became priests, plus a few more who became pastors in Protestant denominations.

The three young men I knew who became priests all had social difficulties beforehand. The single thing all of them had in common was difficulty forming strong friendships with other guys and difficulty in dealing with girls and women, both socially and sexually.

It's a very, very small sample, of course. Those three found comfort in the rituals and organized focus of the Catholic Church when they were in high school. They went on to find vocations within the RCC. I lost touch with all three of them once that happened, so I have no idea how they are doing now, over 50 years later. They aren't on any of the social media venues, nor do they involve themselves with our school's alumni association or show up at any reunions.

It is as though they dropped off the face of the earth, with regard to people who knew them earlier. I hope their lives have been rewarding for them, and satisfactory, but I have no way of knowing. I moved away from my home town at age 18, so I don't have a lot of regular contact with others who knew them. I am involved with my alumni groups on Facebook, but nobody seems to know what became of them there, either.

I remain curious, but have no real way to learn anything more.

[Major Nikon]

3. I suppose if you are a priest it's only natural to make such excuses

You'd have a vested interest in covering up child rape because lawsuits are expensive and could potentially bankrupt your employer. So while it's still child rape apologia, at least you can understand the motivation. Not so much with people who do it for free.

[MineralMan]

6. If the organization is a religious one, exposure of rank hypocrisy within it

can be even more destructive. I think that plays a powerful role in the RCC's covering up of child sexual abuse committed by its clergy members. The money's important, but exposure of hypocrisy is even more damaging, I think.

[Major Nikon]

8. Which also equates to tithing money

As with most other corruption all you have to do is follow the money.

[MineralMan]

9. Oh, yes. Churches depend on getting donations out of their members pockets.

They have no other source of income. The church business can be lucrative, but its audience can be fickle, too.

[edhopper]

11. Does it really matter

why anyone murders anyone else. Still gonna be murderers.

[MineralMan]

12. Yes. That's the argument.

Priests also cannot inform the authorities if someone confesses to murder in the confessional. Same issue, exactly. There is a moral and ethical conflict there that is created by the supposed "sanctity of the confessional." I have always opposed it in the case of grievous harm to another person being admitted in the confessional.

I will continue to oppose that misuse of that religious practice.

[edhopper]

14. So what God wants

is not only to give absolution for these crimes, but say someone confesses that they rape children daily, that nothing should be done to stop the children from continuing to be raped.
As long as forgiveness is asked, literally, fuck the children.

[MineralMan]

16. God, of course, has nothing whatever to do with it.

I don't believe any such entity exists. This is an institutional problem - an institution created by and maintained by humans, not deities. From the very beginning, the Roman Catholic church has given refuge to its clergy, protecting it from secular control as far as possible. The Church has always believed that it was above the secular law. While the Church often meddled in government areas, it always held itself apart when it came to laws and other legal matters.

There's no deity involved at all. Those protections are purely a human imperative the Church has always supported. That attitude has been the source of considerable harm over a couple of millennia.

[edhopper]

19. I know you don't believe

I was looking at it from the RCC's perspective. Wouldn't they need to put God into the equation.

[MineralMan]

21. Oh, sure. God's the thing, at least in the background.

As long as that entity doesn't interfere with what the Church wants to do, it's very useful.

[Ferrets are Cool]

28. .....What God wants....

What God wants God gets God help us all What God wants God gets The kid in the corner looked at the priest And fingered his pale blue Japanese guitar The priest said God wants goodness God wants light God wants mayhem God wants a clean fight What God wants God gets Don't look so surprised It's only dogma The alien prophet cried The beetle and the springbok Took the bible from it's hook The monkey in the corner Wrote the lesson in his book What God wants God gets God help us all God wants peace God wants war God wants famine God wants chain stories What God wants God gets God wants sedition God wants sex God wants freedom God wants semtex What God wants God gets Don't look so surprised I'm only joking The alien comic cried The jackass and hyena Took the feather from it's book The monkey in the corner Wrote the joke down his book What God wants God gets God wants boarders God wants crack God wants rainfall God wants wetbacks What God wants God gets God wants voodoo God wants shrines God wants law God wants organised crime God wants crusade God wants jihad God wants good God wants bad What God wants God gets

[Major Nikon]

17. Won't someone please think of the....

priests?

Oh wait, that's not how that goes.

[MineralMan]

18. Oh, I think of the priests. I also wish they'd learn to behave properly.

[Major Nikon]

20. The point being some people want you to think of the priests rather than children being raped

Not just any priests mind you but specifically those that know about the child raping.

[MineralMan]

22. Indeed.

[guillaumeb]

23. Feel free to document this assertion.

Speaking of logical errors, this unsubstantiated assertion is at best, an unsubstantiated opinion.

[MineralMan]

24. No need...

[guillaumeb]

25. Somehow, I thought that might be your response.

So is this unsubstantiated assertion merely an opinion about what could have been said?

[MineralMan]

26. ..

[guillaumeb]

27. EMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

The new mantra.

[Mariana]

29. All of MineralMan's posts are his opinion, Gil.

I don't know why you think that is some big secret. He says so literally every single time he posts, in his signature.

[MineralMan]

30. I have reminded him of that many, many times.

Maybe he can't see the signature lines. I don't know.

The assumption on any discussion forum should be that posts written by a poster represent that poster's opinion. If other material is quoted from another source, it represents the other author's opinion or information.

Many people value their own opinions very highly, but consider the opinions of others to be wrong in most cases. It's an interesting phenomenon.

[guillaumeb]

32. Yes, many people do value their opinion highly.

It is evident from this post.

And as your many posts talking about theists lacking logic show, the irony of your statement is incredible.

[MineralMan]

33. ..

[guillaumeb]

31. EMMMMMMMMMMMM made a specific claim.

So specific that EMMMMM referred to "according to one person".

That was not framed as an opinion.