My 94-year-old parents had things to tell me this week.

[MineralMan]

I flew out to California to visit them - maybe for the last time. One of the things we talked about was planning for what to do when they die. Here's what my father said about that:

"No cremation! We don't want to be burned up. No fancy coffins! Use the money for something useful. Bury us in the cemetery plots we own (he handed me ownership papers for the sites). No funerals! Just family at the burial. You can have a get-together later if you want. We won't be there. No preachers! We don't want someone we don't know speaking and saying prayers over us. We don't believe in that nonsense. We're not worried about dying. We've lived too long already. Your mother can't remember her last sentence, and it takes me 15 minutes to walk 50 yards. We're ready to be gone."

My father also handed me their healthcare directives. No prolongation of their lives through advanced medical treatments. Both have DNR orders on file with their doctor. No 911 calls. They don't want to die with tubes in all their orifices. He was very clear about that.

So, that's exactly what I'll do. I will honor their wishes, to the letter.

My parents probably wouldn't call themselves atheists. They'd just say they don't have any religious beliefs at all. I'm fine with that. I'm an atheist. My sister and her husband are nominal Christians, but haven't been to a church service for decades. My late younger brother, never went to church as an adult, although his two children attend church services.

My parents have always been sensible, honorable, honest, truthful, helpful people. As far as I know, they've never harmed anyone or even said a bad word about anyone. They have followed their own common sense and let others do the same. No religion needed nor wanted. If you knew them, you'd like them right away. It's sad to see them so run-down and feeble. But, we still told stories about times past, like always. But, they're tired of everything now.

Religion is unnecessary. Living rationally works just fine, as does dying rationally.

[Pendrench]

1. Hi MineralMan - Your parents sound like wonderful people.

You and your family have been lucky to have them with you for so many years - and it sounds as though you all greatly appreciate the time and experiences that you have shared.

Both my parents are in their mid-80's, so I imagine that I will be facing a similar situation in the probable near future.

Such is life

I wish you and your family well and peace.

Tim

[MineralMan]

8. They are. Thanks!

[Girard442]

2. I'm glad you all had these discussions.

It will make it easier when the time comes. Not easy, just easier. Don't be too hard on yourself if it hits you like a ton of bricks. It's part of the human condition.

[MineralMan]

9. Thanks. I'll get through it, I'm sure.

I learned resilience from them.

[Kittycow]

3. Personally, I would double check on the plots beforehand.

I only say this because I've read stories about cemeteries double-selling plots and the family finds out at the worst possible time that there's no record of their loved ones buying it, someone else is buried there,etc. But I'm anal about stuff like that.

[MineralMan]

7. No need. I know exactly where the plots are:

next to my mother's parents' plots. No worries. It's a small-town cemetery.

[Kittycow]

72. Sounds like everything's under control then!

My 90-something parents also have every aspect locked down tightly and it's going to be so much easier for us kids to know exactly what to do.

[cpamomfromtexas]

4. You are fortunate

Mine are going out crazy as in so crazy they have committed multiple felonies lately including pulling a gun on my son recently.

[MineralMan]

10. I'm very sorry to hear that.

[mahina]

26. Whoa! Good luck, that's awful.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Following someone's wishes is always the right thing to do, even if

they won't be around to check up on you. If a person doesn't want a religious service or a particular kind of religious service there shouldn't be one. If they do, there should be. If they didn't leave instructions or didn't seem to care one way or the other, hold a service that will offer the most comfort to the family. My dad wasn't especially religious but he wasn't anti-religious, either; we went to a Congregational church (now UCC) when we were kids but my parents' church attendance fell off as they got older. When my mom died we had a memorial service in the UCC church we'd attended years ago because she was always sort of fond of it. When dad died at 92 we had a memorial service conducted by a Lutheran pastor at the Lutheran-sponsored retirement home he was living in - because a Christian service was meaningful to his friends at the home and not offensive to us, and we were sure dad wouldn't have minded. He left no specific instructions, which of course we'd have followed if he had. The issue isn't whether a religious funeral or memorial should or should not be held - it's about respect for the beliefs and instructions of the deceased and their family.

[MineralMan]

12. I agree. My father is a planner.

He has always had a plan, and this is no exception. I will have no problem following his instructions.

We'll have some sort of memorial gathering. Although most of their friends have died already, my father was a highly respected member of that community, and served as the Fire Chief for that city's volunteer Fire Department for over 25 years. Everyone in that small town knew my parents, so I expect a lot of people will want to come and show their respect. I'll let my brother-in-law and sister set that up, since they still live there, and since my B-i-L was also the Fire Chief.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. You are fortunate in that regard - my dad was a planner, too;

he had a whole folder containing everything needed to handle his estate (I was the executor) - but he didn't leave any specific funeral or memorial instructions, which suggests that he really didn't care much. If he'd left instructions for a high Mass at the St. Paul Cathedral we'd have tried to do it, however totally weird that would have been, but since he left it for us to decide we arranged for something small, simple and inexpensive that would be meaningful to the people he left behind. A service at the fire department sounds totally appropriate in your family's case.

Whatever happens, it's tough, and sad, to lose a parent no matter how old they are, so best wishes to you and your family.

[Siwsan]

6. I'm putting together my 'last wishes' instructions

And, there are pretty much identical to what you've received, except for the cremation part. I've already got a DPOA and my healthcare directive/DNR in place. I don't want any money being wasted on my passing, beyond the cost to cremate me and finding a temporary container for my ashes. I've requested they be smuggled into Wales and scattered at several of my favorite places. My wishes have nothing to do with religion. I'm more of a 'spiritual' person and want my spirit to dwell in the land of my ancestors.

I have some (IMHO) unfortunate longevity genes from both sides of the family, and there is also a history of Alzheimer's on my mom's side of the family. Hopefully something else will take me out before any risk of that sets in. Meanwhile, I'm healthy (a good 20 years younger than mom, when her first symptoms became apparent), and live a relatively risk-free life style. But one never knows what nasty surprises lurk around the next corner.

We had everything in place before my mom died, which was fortunate since that happened very shortly after my sister's death. She had let us know, years ago, exactly what she wanted so we followed her wishes.

Know that my thoughts are with you, on what you will be experiencing.

[MineralMan]

13. Yes. I want to be cremated and my ashes

dumped into the Mississippi River, which flows through my current city of St. Paul, MN. My wife knows that, as well as my opinions about just about everything having to do with the end of my life.

However, I'll certainly honor my parents' wishes.

[Siwsan]

15. We were all shocked when my mom decided on cremation for herself and dad

Surprised in a good way. We had a funeral for Dad because he was very well known in our community. For Mom we held a memorial mass at her parish. Most of her friends had already died and since out of town family had just been here for my sister's funeral, we decided to hold off on the mass, for a while.

We still have their ashes but the plan is to have them interred at the Great Lakes National Cemetery. Dad was a Marine.

[GulfCoast66]

61. I was moved by your situation. No in a bad way mind you.

My dad died when I was in my 20s. He was a good man and I can’t help a pang of envy when I hear stories like yours. So glad to see you able to appreciate the gifts they have given you.

And as to your wishes when you pass. When your remains Make their way to the Gulf of Mexico, someday they may co-mingle with mine since I will be cremated and my remains scattered in the gulf.

You are so correct. No religion required.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy the time your parents have left with you.

Have a nice day.

[MineralMan]

62. Thank you very much for your reply.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

11. Your parents sound great...

and they obviously raised you well.

My parents had almost the same directives, save for cremation they felt as my wife and I do, why waste the space for graves that in decades to come no one will visit anyway. Both my parents were devout Catholics the cremation order was a surprise but my siblings an I honored their wishes.

My wife and I are atheist. We have the same orders to our children, cremate us, have a party to remember us by. But reality sets in at times and we know that they will do what offers them the most closure and peace of mind. We don’t want the kids to be arguing about what to do. It’s really not up to us...we will not be there. Cremation is the only non-negotiable item, anything else is a waste of money we believe.

[MineralMan]

14. They are. Thanks.

In the past year, my father worked with an attorney to set up a trust that handles all of the funds and property. As the eldest child, I'll be the trustee, and will follow their wishes to the letter. I'll leave it to the attorney to handle many of the details for me, according to the trust documents and will. I doubt I'll feel like taking on that responsibility myself. I've already spoken to the attorney, in advance of that need.

I don't like any of this stuff, frankly, but it's all part of responsible living. That was how my parents have lived, and how they taught their offspring to live. Honesty and responsibility were always their primary priorities. They are good people.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

17. They took care of us as babes...

And young ones, we only return the favor.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes. We should never forget that.

We are who we are because of them, really.

[Wellstone ruled]

18. Sounds like you now have

peace of mind. Been down that trail a few times and we have put those same ideas in place for our Children.

Laughingly,hey not going to be there anyway,and what can we do about it anyhow.

BTW,hope you had a good time while visiting anyway. Sorry for the crappy weather.

[MineralMan]

24. It wasn't my favorite visit, I must say.

We did manage to get together as a family for dinner at Sizzler, though. My parents can still get out for a meal. It's a serious deal, though, taking them out. Very time consuming.

It's hard to see your aging parents breaking down so much, though. I spent all of my time in their apartment, except for taking all their laundry out to wash at their house, where I also slept. I convinced them to pay for that service at their assisted living facility to simplify the chore. They're still trying to be as independent as possible, but I worked hard to convince them to let others handle the drudge work for them, so they can avoid wasting time on mundane things. I finally got them to agree, or got my father to agree, since my mother is in no condition to make any decisions at all.

[Wellstone ruled]

28. Oh boy how those words ring in my pea brain.

Had a bi-fold pamphlet one time that was a hand out to the Children and care givers of Persons whom spent their last days at a Home. It is the independence thing that is the most difficult to change with ones Parents. Have to say,it took several months to get my Parents to except the fact that there was services available to do the Shopping,cleaning,and the Laundry. This remember how my Mother in Law would go behind the Cleaning Lady and bitch because that ain't the way I fold clothes. We had a sit down with her Cleaning and Laundry helper,and when they came in to do their jobs,they would get the MIL involved,hey,it worked,within a few weeks,the MIL just got out of way and made sure the coffee was on and she could Visit with the Girls we they got done.

Sounds like you got a plan and that is all that counts.

[MineralMan]

30. Thanks. I'm heartened by all of the posts in reply to this thread.

A lot of us are facing issues with our aging parents. The roles are reversing, and we're having to become the parents for them, in many cases. Sadly, many people do not want to take responsibility for them and make sure the people involved with their care are doing right by them.

I was impressed with the staff at the assisted living facility where my parents are living now. I made a point of introducing myself to as many of them as possible during the week I was there. I was able to give them some insights into how to best interact with them, since both have profound hearing issues. I was glad to see my suggestions put into action right away, with people leaning down and speaking into their ears so they could be easily understood.

Overall, I think they are in a good place, care-wise. I ate all my meals in their dining room for a week, just to make sure the food was OK and the service, as well. It was, although the diet there would be far too bland for me. Still, they seem to anticipate the residents' needs and adapt to their individual likes and dislikes. For example, my father will not eat fried eggs with runny yolks. He told them that the first day, so the cook breaks the yolks so they are fully cooked, just as he likes them. Every day I had breakfast there, his eggs were cooked exactly the way he prefers. I liked that, and thanked the cook personally for being so attentive.

The children of seniors in such facilities will do well if they hang around long enough to observe and offer suggestions to the staff, who may not be aware of such needs. It takes time and close attention, but has great benefits.

[Wellstone ruled]

36. On the flip side,we have

bumped into a few Seniors who were just abandoned by their families. And it is not pretty. Have to say,unrelated Care Givers are a special breed to say the least.

With a plan in place,things seem to work out.

[catchnrelease]

52. Definitely interact with the caregivers

I totally agree with your comment about dealing with care-giving staff. My mom is in an assisted living facility in NoCal, and due to the care she requires it's very expensive. We are lucky the funds from sale of her home a few years ago allow her to have this good care. My brother and sil live about 10 mins from her facility, so they are there to see her every few days just to keep tabs. I usually go up and stay for a long weekend or a week a few times a year. When I go, I will sit with her for several hours at a time, doing crosswords with her, or just watching tv etc. (She doesn't really have dementia but not much short term memory)

When I am there I see several of her aides or the medical staff that come to do her blood checks/insulin shots etc and I always make a point of thanking them when they are done. Even if it's just an aide bringing pills, her laundry or helping her to the bathroom. Her favorite aide is from Peru and I talk with her about her country, background etc. So she knows who I am, and that I respect her work. I think these interactions make the caregivers feel appreciated, which they are for sure, and give mom more personal attention. Sometimes when I call her if an aide is in the room I can hear them say 'Oh is that your daughter?' so I know they remember who I am.

While I have not eaten in the dining room I have walked down to meals with her and seen the food offered. It looks great, although I hear the residents complain of the blandness. My mom doesn't have much appetite and has always been a picky eater, so the staff humors her and 'bribe' her with her favorite dessert if she will eat a decent amount.

I definitely think interacting with staff/caregivers is beneficial to the parent. Plus most of them deserve all appreciation possible for what they do.

[Ohiogal]

19. Wishing you well

in regards to whatever lies ahead, MineralMan

Your parents sound like wonderful, practical, people. It was not that "easy" for me when mine went, esp. my mother.

[MineralMan]

21. Thank you very much!

As usual, my parents are being practical and thinking of others. I'm so lucky!

[lagomorph777]

22. Your parents sound a lot like me (only 30+ years older).

[MineralMan]

27. That's true for a lot of people.

More than get recognized, I'm sure. There are many, many logical, rational people out there who decide things after thinking about them carefully. Such people normally don't seek or get a lot of publicity, but they're out there.

[Ilsa]

23. However it is handled, whether

you get to exercise their last directives precisely or someone else makes the mistake of intervening, it will be difficult saying goodbye. The little screw-ups by those intervening can be forgotten. The bigger screw-ups will have to be forgiven.

I hope it all goes well and peacefully for all of you.

[MineralMan]

25. It will go as planned, I'm sure.

I've discussed it all with my sister and her husband, too. They are in full agreement that my parents' wishes should be honored. My sister is also in the early stages of Alzheimer's, so there's that to deal with, as well. Somehow, I seem to have escaped any memory deficits, as has my father.

[skydive forever]

29. My favorite quote of all time:

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

― Marcus Aurelius

My wife of 23 years just died in June, and this quote helped me, as I'm not religous at all, but consider myself spiritual. Stay strong, and good luck to you.

[MineralMan]

37. Thank you. I'm sorry for your loss, too.

It's always difficult to see our loved ones slip away from us.

[central scrutinizer]

84. Sorry for your loss

I lost my wife of 30 years on 1 March 2017. Grief is uncontrollable but I've found, with time, the frequency of the waves is less. I'm sure the anniversary will knock me back again. Of course, there is always an anniversary coming up: the anniversary of the cancer diagnosis, birthdays, wedding anniversaries, birthdays of children, etc. I recommend reading John Pavlovitz on grief. Google his name plus grief to get links to his blog posts. He's a Christian and I'm an atheist but his words ring true with me.

[maddiemom]

31. This is almost exactly what my late mother had verified in writing, a decade before she died.

She was 91 when she passed and was pretty much bedridden: her mind drifted quite a lot, and she completely lost interest in politics (the scariest thing to me, as she had been VERY active well into her late seventies). Despite her wishes (which will be my own), her youngest sister, some fifteen years older than I and living in a neighboring state, demanded a later memorial service and reception. Mom left enough for this to be taken care of with no financial strain, but my brother and I Iater regretted being talked into it. My aunt showed up with only one one of her four kids (with spouse) and they stayed only a short while. Worst of all, she had asked us to provide a "spread," but they already ate on the way. My brother got along well with this aunt before, and she was a favorite with me. With no dramatics involved, we've rarely spoken since (nearly a decade). Hopefully wishes of other family
and your situation will be straightforward. Be warned, however, of interfering relatives (my mom and aunt were very close throughout their lives), and advise your parents to put their wishes, BEYOND end of life healthcare, in writing. If they choose traditional funeral services...no problem.

[Nitram]

32. Over the last four years of their lives, I waatched both my parents die. They were in their 90s.

The one thing I learned was the mistake they made in assuming "advanced medical treatments" means "tubes in all their orifices." The fact is they both had their lives prolonged well beyond the time they were ready to die through the 24-hour care that constantly monitored and adjusted their blood pressure, their blood sugar and other indicators. I learned that medical science no longer needs tubes and respirators to keep us alive well beyond the time we are meant to die. When I reach the point where my quality of life is close to nil, my DNR will order that no measures at all will be taken to keep me alive beyond pain medication if required. Not even an aspirin! My Dad changed his DNR in the end to read the way, and it was a great relief to see his wishes honored.

[MineralMan]

39. Yes. Things that violate the dignity of the aged are common.

I'm a fierce advocate for my parents' wishes, and will see that they are followed closely. These days, hospice care folks, like those who visit my parents, understand that kind of thing very well.

[Nitram]

60. Yes, the hospice people are very understanding. But they do need clear guidance regarding the

expectations of their patients.

[mitch96]

74. Both have DNR orders on file with their doctor.

Make sure you bang this home with the MD's and people that care for them. To many times in my 40 years working in hospitals I have seen extraordinary measures done on people with
DNR written on top of the chart. Advanced directives were the first thing in the chart.
The medical team STILL ran a code like it was a 20 year old..
m

[alwaysinasnit]

33. Thanks MineralMan for sharing. Letting go; the head understands, but the heart has trouble doing so.

[dawn5651]

34. my mom

what your dad told you was exactly what was in my moms will..she didn't want a service she didn't want anything but to have her ashes scattered where she grew up. that didn't happen because where she grew up is now totally impassable by car and to go in by foot would be a major undertaking especially for my oldest brother who has been battling lukemia for years, and to be fair if mom had known how bad the homestead is now she would have chosen someplace else.

a bit about my mom...she was a widow by the time she was 28 and she raised 7 kids by herself....she did a great job too if i say so myself...

i hope your parents are around for awhile yet....losing your parent is a hard thing to go thru no matter how old you are.

[BarbD]

35. Beautiful!

[MineralMan]

41. Thank you!

[littlemissmartypants]

38. Clearly the apple didn't fall far from the tree as you

have painted a picture of your thoughtful, sensible, pragmatic and intelligent parents. Your Dad also sounds like he may have a great sense of humor.

I wish my parents would face the music with these issues and have that talk, I fear it is late in the game however. Both of them are losing their minds and the end is near. I am seriously dreading the point where one is left without the other.The day to day care giving that I now share with my step sister is about to break us.

Here's to a rational death.

Thanks for sharing. You are one of the best parts of DU. Never change.

[MineralMan]

40. Please be strong in your difficult times ahead.

Do the best you can and know that you have done so.

[Brainstormy]

42. You are very fortunate

and your parents are excellent examples of the value of living rationally.

[MineralMan]

44. They have always been very rational people.

Caring, rational people.

[FakeNoose]

43. They are courageous and smart to think ahead

I'll bet this takes a load off of you too. How generous your parents are to do this and take the worry & guilt out of it. You are lucky to have so many wonderful years with your parents, and they've lasted to a ripe old age! They must have done something right.

[MineralMan]

45. They are, and I love them for that and many other traits.

Good people!

[DeminPennswoods]

46. Check, double check and re-check the laws regarding

advance directives and DNRs. There are, or can be, occassions where a DNR cannot be legally honored. Also make sure any hospital where they might land has a copy of their DNR and advance directives. This happened to a relative who was sent to a hospital and got a feeding tube, etc, despite his written directive forbidding life-sustaining measures. He was sent out without the advance directives meaning the hospital did not know his wishes. It wasn't until they got a copy of the paperwork that all tubes, etc, were removed and he was allowed to pass peacefully.

[MineralMan]

48. It's all taken care of, thanks.

[deurbano]

47. You're a lucky son! Such great parents... who have lived long, full lives!

[MineralMan]

50. Yes. Long, full lives.

I do feel lucky, indeed!

[LittleGirl]

49. My mother

is 86 and has had all of her directives set up for at least 2 decades. My father died 44 yrs ago. She doesn't want anybody to see her body in a casket so there will be no viewing. No funeral either because she's afraid my siblings will have fights. Our family is divided into liberals and assholes. She wants to be cremated. My youngest sibling is the executor since he's the only one that lives in town yet. I doubt he'll outlive my mother though. He's had heart disease for 30 yrs and has 7 stents in his heart.

My oldest brother that lived in CA died in September a few weeks before his 66th birthday and that about sent her into orbit. They had a gathering at a local restaurant so no service for him.

Mother never wanted to live this long and losing her first born was very upsetting to her. She is crippled from arthritis and heart disease and is angry to be waking up everyday.

When my 64 yr old sister had a stroke in October, I was really afraid we'd lose her too. My sister had two brain surgeries and is home recovering now. She's doing well but I thought Mother was going to die from a broken heart. She wasn't supposed to outlive her children even though her grandmother lived to be 104 and outlived many of her children and some of her grandchildren (my mother's siblings).

Since I live in Switzerland now, it's going to be hard to figure out what to do when she does goes. She is the only reason I visited my hometown in the past 5 yrs. I'm grateful she has her directives set up and every day hope she can go in peace because she doesn't want to live another day.

MM - I hope your parents' passings go fast and painlessly (if you know what I mean). Peace to you and yours.

[lunatica]

51. Regarding the DNR directions

Last edited Wed Jan 9, 2019, 08:36 PM - Edit history (1)

If your parents get sick and they get home hospice care and suddenly go unconscious at home and someone unfamiliar with this directive calls paramedics they say that you should tape the DNR to the wall behind the bed so the paramedics can see it.

But I’m sure you probably know this already. I did this for my mother who died peacefully at home under palliative care.

[marybourg]

82. You're not supposed to call medics

when someone is in hospice. You're supposed to call the hospice. But it's a good idea to tape the DNR up if there's more than 1 caregiver.

[ancianita]

53. When we honor our parents, we honor everyone before them, too. Congrats on such a good end.

No end isn't painful. Yet it's a remarkable place you're in when you can say they've pretty wrapped up their story and are good to go. And you're okay with that.

I like their whole approach to religion and morality, and am glad you take comfort in the essential goodness of theirs and anyone's lives without religion.

I like that you're such a loving son who has such a good family.

Peace.

[MineralMan]

56. I think you're right. Honoring our elders is

part of being human, I think. Of course, some people suffered in their parents' care, but that's a different thing.

I have a strong, solid family, for which I am very, very grateful.

[TexasBushwhacker]

54. My mother was also not religious

She had cancer, so we knew well in advance that she was dying. We opted for a small memorial service and I asked her sister, best friend and one of her teaching collegues to speak. No ministers. It was nice. We had lots of family photos. She wanted to be cremated, so we didn't have the expense of a burial. You can get basic caskets pretty cheap now. There are a lot of places that sell them online.

[hibbing]

55. Those are long lives

My parents had all of their stuff settled. My dad has passed, but my mom, like your dad said, is ready. She's lived a full life, done things most people can't even imagine doing and now is just basically waiting around to die.


Peace

[MineralMan]

58. Yes, very long lives. If they live until the middle of June,

they will have their 75th wedding anniversary, something few couple survive to commemorate. If so, the entire family plans to be there for that, including all 14 great grandchildren.

[geardaddy]

57. Good for your parents.

They sound like they look at life with pragmatic eyes.

My father did the University of Minnesota Bequest Program for the medical school. He donated is body for education of future doctors. My mother has since signed on as well and will be donating her body to the medical school when she goes.

I am inspired my parents to do the same thing. No need for a burial plot and my body will serve some educational purpose.

[MineralMan]

59. They are pragmatic people, but not fatalistic.

They've always been optimists, and have made their goals come to fruition. Sadly, there is little of the future left, but I think they accomplished all of their life goals - at least all of the ones I know about.

[Kurt V.]

63. thanks for sharing MM

I've discussed my final arrangements with my family too and most are just like your parents

[MineralMan]

64. And thanks for your reply.

There are more people like that than some realize, I think.

While that's hard for many religious people to understand, it's true. That's why my thread is posted in the Religion forum.

[hurple]

65. Be careful about that DNR order

I had a relative die of starvation because she wasn't fed due to a DNR.

[Moebym]

66. Good on your parents for thinking ahead and being practical.

They have done their family an enormous favor, and saved everyone a great deal of stress and added grief.

I follow this young LA-based mortician on her YouTube channel Ask A Mortician, and she has given out a lot of practical end-of-life planning advice because she's seen firsthand how lack of planning can put so much added financial and emotional strain on families. Thanks to the efforts of people like her, the younger generation can be more comfortable with the idea of death and speak with their parents and grandparents about end-of-life planning, and more people will know all of their options when it comes to funeral and burial arrangements.

[SergeStorms]

67. I've had the same talk with my Mother...

who is now in Hospice and dying a little more with each passing hour. She has perhaps a week or so left, at most. When a parent says they're not scared of dying, they're lying. My mother said the same things to me for years, and right now she's scared out of her mind (what little she has left). She wants me with her when she dies. I told her I'll do anything in my power, but I can't guarantee I'll be there the second of her death. My Dad died 23 years ago of a massive heart attack. Lights on, lights off. The intricacies of that are a different story, and I won't get into that here.

It's all well and good to have these conversations with your elderly parents, but until they're faced with the reality of death, the stark finality of it, and direct proximity to it, nothing they say can be taken as gospel. We can all say things about our deaths now, but when death is taping you on the shoulder it's an entirely different story. My Mother's directives as to her final preparations, disposal of her body etc. have all changed since the talks we had over the past few years. Death was stalking her (it stalks us all), but now has found her. It's final preparations are now in control, and not my Mother's.

I wish you and your parents peace, love, and courage in what you'll soon face, MineralMan. I certainly mean no ill will, nor do I wish to detract from your parents' final wishes and preparations, and the fashion in which they related them to you. It's great that you talked these things out with them. My only suggestion is that you don't take their talk of dying, and the directives they related to you, too literally at this time. Things could change, and you should be prepared for that. At the very moment of their deaths they will be scared. It's only natural. Fear of the unknown, and all that.

Peace and love to you brother!

[MineralMan]

79. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.

[BigmanPigman]

69. Your parents sound like mine and myself too.

That is how I want to go and have happen. No funeral, no religion, no big bucks going out the window. I do want to be cremated though. I am donating everything that anyone wants from my body, already made a trust, have no kids (animals' refuges and a few diseases' research get 75% of my assets), all my possessions are having a free for all for all my friends. Come in, look around and take what you want.

To avoid extreme pain I am having a doctor give me stuff to kill me. It is legal in CA. If I can't get anyone to do it I will go to the Netherlands or Belgium where they do it too (my family is cool with this all of this since we all feel the same way about this stuff and religion and money).

[worstexever]

70. Read "Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End"

In the book, physician Atul Gawande discussed how medicine can improve life and the process for ending it, but can also interfere with our ability to die with dignity. Not much discussion of religion in the book, which seems to be the point of your post, but solid information about mortality in our modern society. Recommended reading for everyone.

[cp]

71. Your parents sound like swell people

Lots of love within your post. Thank you for sharing with us. Just keep loving them, now and after they've voyaged on.

[SallyHemmings]

73. You are blessed

My father met his 83rd birthday with an attitude. We have been to every doctor imaginable and the conclusion is that he has the body of an 83 year old. He has survived two bouts of colon cancer and prostate cancer. He has been cancer free for 25 years.

He is not a bad person. He worked as Forman for a now closed Steel Company for 38 years. This provided a decent living. A good life for us in a small town.

He refuses to execute a Power of Attorney. Doesn’t want to be hooked up to machines but wants us (Me and two brothers) to try to keep him here. WTF does that mean?

He has a small final expenses policy. Refuses to talk about any end of life planning.

He lives alone because he refuses to move into an assisted living. Living with me or my brothers is not an option for a variety of reasons.

But refuses consider having someone do the housekeeping.

Where’s Mom? In a skilled facility because of Dementia. She hasn’t spoken a word in years.

It has been a long six months.

Your Dad gave you a big present.

[Hekate]

75. MM, my friend -- peace and blessings to you all

I'm going through a rough patch with family just now, so am kind of out of appropriate words. But your folks sound a lot like you, and that's a good thing in my book. Take care.

[MineralMan]

80. I'm sorry you're having issues.

I'm lucky, I know. It's a difficult time for everyone, and I know a lot of DUers are in similar situations. This is generally a very supportive community, for which I'm grateful.

[WhiteHat]

76. In some ways, this might seem bleak.

Many of us cling to the hope, plan for the hope, that there's an afterlife. More honestly, as your parents (? Grandparents?) face certain death, they jointly came to the conclusion that an afterlife was not relevant to how they lived THIS life. Which, if you think of it, is what all religion comes to. How well you live this life, whether you believe you're blessed by some mysterious overlord, or exist as simple food-tube chemistry, we're all faced with that question: choosing the quality of our lives. Among other things, it makes deathbed religious gestures irrelevant.

I fully understand your (parents/grandparents) POV. I hope when my time comes, I'll face it as courageously as they. I was raised as a Catholic, but if nothing else, I hope to face the infinite with a raised middle finger on my deathbed. But it sounds like your ancients were beyond even that. Good for them. God bless them.

[dameatball]

77. My parents were good planners also. Their cremation was previously arranged and we kept mom's ashes

for three years until dad died. By the time they were both gone, we had almost no questions and simply followed their written wishes. We chartered a Morgan sailboat and left off the Atlantic coast of Florida on a calm, sunlit day. Kids, grandkids and some in-laws. Played music, flute, guitar, some said prayers and we all shared memories, ate some fruit and snacks, had a couple glasses of wine and spread their ashes into the Gulf Stream to carry them back to England/Ireland. I think that day was their last gift to us. They wanted no dark ground to be maintained and worried over. They just wanted to go home. In the end, wherever home is, don't we all?

[TNNurse]

78. You will never regret carrying out their wishes.

I was my mother's healthcare POA. I asked her after her first stoke and had again been able to speak to tell me her wishes. She was at first reluctant to speak of such serious things. But being an ICU RN at the time, I knew I could miss my chance. So, I persisted and we had a good talk.

When the docs said there was no more treatment for one of her conditions and found lung cancer in addition, I made the decision to never take her back to the hospital. Her Parkinson's disease had taken her power of speech so I spoke for her.

I knew as I met a little resistance from a doctor that I was only speaking for her and I was certain.

Carrying out the end of life wishes of someone is a perfect act of love.

[MineralMan]

81. Thank you. Nurses are special people!

[Doreen]

83. By the time I die I do not think there will be anyone

around to care or afford to do anything. Whatever hole the government or whoever wants to do with my body I do not give a flipping crap. After all, I will be dead.

[uppityperson]

85. Organized religion is unnecessary. What we believe is up to each individual.

[UpInArms]

86. I am glad you got to talk with them

And see them again ...

All I know is that you are such a good person ... your parents must be awesome, as well ...

Hugs to you all

[Ligyron]

87. Sounds like you guys have things well in hand.

It's good they have made their wishes clear so everybody's on the same page in these matters. We've all seen cases where they weren't and the results can be bad.

Real bad.

So few wanted to talk about their inevitable demise in the past and then it got to the point where they couldn't discuss anything rationally even if they wanted to and the result left their remaining SO's always wondering if they handled the inescapable properly. That's if they were fortunate to have any SO's - or any who gave a darn.

Your folks sound like great people and they have a great kid in you.

[MineralMan]

90. I think so. Many people are far more open

these days to discussing end of life issues. I give credit for that to the Hospice movement, really. Hospice workers tend to get the conversation going with all parties, and that's a very good thing, indeed.

[williesgirl]

88. Wow. How lucky they are to still have each other (and you of course).

[Stuart G]

89. K and R

[WeekiWater]

91. My step mother recently passed. She was a devout Christian.

Church every Sunday and bible study multiple times a week. Interesting how similar in thought she seemed to be with you parents, outside of two things. Religion and the funeral. She left the funeral up to her husband. She viewed it as time needed for those she loved and not for herself. She understood with death comes pain. She asked my father to do what he thought was best to help people through the process. She viewed a funeral as a major step in that process. She wanted no say in it.

[MineralMan]

92. That's an Excellent Point.

Everyone is different. Everyone has different expectations for what they want after their death. That's why it's so important to have such discussions ahead of time. Nobody wants to think about dying, but discovering how people feel about funeral services and the like is extremely important for their families.

All too often, misunderstandings cause additional stress at a very difficult time. Knowledge of the individuals wishes is crucial, as is following those wishes.

[WeekiWater]

93. What I love about both of our parents.

The thought ahead of time. I think that is so important. Mine purchased their plots close to twenty years ago. For the last fifteen years, they have sent me updated living will about once every other year.

This

"All too often, misunderstandings cause additional stress at a very difficult time. Knowledge of the individuals wishes is crucial, as is following those wishes."

That statement really encompasses a lot.