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Luis Suárez banned for eight matches for racial abuse of Patrice Evra (Original Post) MrCoffee Dec 2011 OP
Fookin disgrace! Rambis Dec 2011 #1
The FA has to wait on the police investigation re: Terry MrCoffee Dec 2011 #2
Agree Rambis Dec 2011 #3
Yes, redqueen Dec 2011 #4
No regnaD kciN Dec 2011 #14
Precisely. redqueen Dec 2011 #15
England's Brave John Terry WILL face criminal charges MrCoffee Dec 2011 #5
Both situations are way over the top... truebrit71 Dec 2011 #7
I agree with you, but I also think the FA is being intentionally unfair to Suarez MrCoffee Dec 2011 #8
To describe such words as only saying 'something that they don't like' redqueen Dec 2011 #9
I wasn't referring to the words JT may or may not have said specifically...but rather truebrit71 Dec 2011 #10
Yes, I do agree with your point. redqueen Dec 2011 #11
Much as I dislike the unlovely John Terry fedsron2us Dec 2011 #18
Joint statement from Liverpool players re: the outrageous Luis Suarez ban Rambis Dec 2011 #6
The problem is, this is an obscure case where people want absolute clarity... regnaD kciN Dec 2011 #13
Well stated Rambis Dec 2011 #16
Lots of problems with the FAs treatment of Suarez fedsron2us Dec 2011 #17
My new ride Rambis Dec 2011 #12

Rambis

(7,774 posts)
1. Fookin disgrace!
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:36 PM
Dec 2011

John Terry should be banned for the rest of the season and fined 100,000 GBP for his black C*** comment which is on video by the way.

Statement from the club...

We look forward to the publication of the Commission's Judgment. We will study the detailed reasons of the Commission once they become available, but reserve our right to appeal or take any other course of action we feel appropriate with regards to this situation.

We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play - including Evra's own Manchester United teammates and all the match officials - heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/liverpool-fc-statement-8

MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
2. The FA has to wait on the police investigation re: Terry
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:43 PM
Dec 2011

But when they get Terry's punk ass in front of them, they'd better throw the book at him. His comment toward Ferdinand was way more egregious than Suarez's. His stupid "I said I didn't call him that" defense is laughable.

I agree with LFC's take...if it's only Evra's word against Suarez, then an 8 match ban is completely over the top.

Rambis

(7,774 posts)
3. Agree
Tue Dec 20, 2011, 03:51 PM
Dec 2011

the police investigation has to be done first but JT should be gone for the season based on this decision end of.

regnaD kciN

(26,591 posts)
14. No
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 06:58 AM
Dec 2011

He'll have to stand trial, and will probably plea-bargain his way to a small fine, after which the FA will declare that, since the courts have handled the matter, there's no need for any further disciplinary action, particularly anything that might endanger his status as England's Captain.

If there's one thing you can count on from the FA, it's an utter double-standard when it comes to them furrin' players versus members of Our England Team. If Suárez had been a British subject, and eligible for the national team, we'd be hearing about how the FA took a strong stand against racism by banning Patrice Evra for eight matches.


MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
5. England's Brave John Terry WILL face criminal charges
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:04 PM
Dec 2011

The Chelsea centre-half, who denies any wrongdoing, will appear before West London magistrates' court on 1 February charged with a racially aggravated public order offence made during an altercation with Ferdinand in the derby with QPR at Loftus Road on 23 October.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/john-terry-racism-case-cps

You just know the FA will find some weasel reason not to investigate EBJT.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
7. Both situations are way over the top...
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 04:29 PM
Dec 2011

...when it becomes a crime to say something to someone that they don't like, it is time to consider whether the law has gone too far...

MrCoffee

(24,159 posts)
8. I agree with you, but I also think the FA is being intentionally unfair to Suarez
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 04:39 PM
Dec 2011

I don't think EBJT should face criminal charges, and I don't think suspending Suarez for 8 games is in any way reasonable. I can't help feeling like the FA had Sepp Blatter's ignorant mug in mind and decided to make a strong statement against racism, and rather than making that statement against England's captain, they chose Suarez. I won't be at all surprised if the FA drops the Terry investigation, either on the grounds that he was found guilty of a criminal charge and has been sufficiently punished, or that he was found innocent in court.

Mostly I just can't stand Patrice Evra for acting like a spoiled little crybaby jerk during the 2010 World Cup. What self-respecting full-grown adult professional acts like that? Where does he get the nerve to ever walk out onto a pitch again?

redqueen

(115,164 posts)
9. To describe such words as only saying 'something that they don't like'
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 07:04 PM
Dec 2011

is to downplay racist verbal attacks IMHO.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
10. I wasn't referring to the words JT may or may not have said specifically...but rather
Thu Dec 22, 2011, 09:19 AM
Dec 2011

...the fact that if you can criminalize some words, why can't you criminalize all words that are deemed by lawmakers to be 'offensive'?

It is a very slippery slope when speech, even racist, ignorant, hateful speech is criminalized...

fedsron2us

(2,863 posts)
18. Much as I dislike the unlovely John Terry
Sat Dec 24, 2011, 02:36 PM
Dec 2011

Last edited Sat Dec 24, 2011, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I am slightly surprised that the CPS have gone for a prosecution under section 31 (1) (c) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. If they win then all footballers who mouth insults or oaths on a football pitch will need to watch their step since racial aggravation has essentially just been tagged to an existing range of crimes. In most cases all the new offence does is increase the tariff. Thus if Terry had just called Ferdinand a c**t he would still have breached the law under Section 5 Public Order Act 1986 but the potential fine would be a £1000 rather than £2500 he will face because he added the word black and therefore fell foul of the later amendment to that law. If this becomes common practise we could end up with half the EPL in front of the magistrates.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/racially_aggravated_offences/

Of course, this might not be a bad thing if it prompted the FA to take a strong stand against all forms of abuse in football not just those that are racially motivated. Sadly I suspect that would just be part of my idle dream of returning to an age of more Corinthian sporting values.

Rambis

(7,774 posts)
6. Joint statement from Liverpool players re: the outrageous Luis Suarez ban
Wed Dec 21, 2011, 01:36 PM
Dec 2011

Luis Suarez is our teammate and our friend and as a group of players we are shocked and angered that he has been found guilty by the FA.

We totally support Luis and we want the world to know that. We know he is not racist.

We are a squad of many different nationalities and backgrounds. All of us support the Club's commitment to fighting racism. All of us accept there is no place in the game for any form of discrimination. As a group of players we totally support the Kick it Out Campaign.

We have lived, trained and played with Luis for almost 12 months and we don't recognise the way he has been portrayed. We will continue to support Luis through this difficult period, and as a popular and respected friend of all his teammates, he will not walk alone.

Author: Liverpool FC

regnaD kciN

(26,591 posts)
13. The problem is, this is an obscure case where people want absolute clarity...
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 06:48 AM
Dec 2011

Even though I'm a Red fan, I would have to say that, if Suárez had actually used intentionally racist language against Evra, the FA should throw the book at him. However, that matter is far from clear:

-- Although the ref had to separate the two players on more than one occasion, Evra never mentioned a word about Suárez using racial slurs against him, although it's in the ref's jurisdiction to penalize a player for using such slurs. The charge only came about after the game, when Evra was being interviewed on French television.

-- The ref heard no racial slurs at all.

-- Nor did any of Evra's own teammates report such slurs, or substantiate his claims later.

-- Although the match being videotaped, no examination of the video or audio shows any racial slurs.

-- When the conviction and ban were announced by the panel, they did not provide any evidence to the public to substantiate their verdict. Instead, they said such evidence would be released "shortly." Word now is that said evidence might be released by sometime in mid to late January. (Of course, that leaves several weeks for the "Suárez is a racist" meme to be spread by the press and supporters of other clubs.)

-- According to speculation and "in the know" rumors (since, as I pointed out before, the actual evidence -- or lack thereof -- is currently being withheld), the sole backing for the charge is that Suárez admitted calling Evra "negrito." The problem here, as strange as it might seem to U.S. or British ears, is that, in South America, that word does not have a racist or even racial context, and can be used toward whites just as much as blacks, with a meaning (either sincere or sarcastic) similar to our "buddy" or "pal." (To be honest, I was skeptical about this until I asked my wife, who is from Colombia and, incidentally, not an LFC fan. She thought it was unbelievable that anyone could be called racist for using "negrito," as it simply does not have a racist meaning at all there and, as was reported above, is used as often toward people of European ancestry as of African ancestry.) It certainly does not mean the same as "negro," let alone the other n-word, in English. Also, apparently, Evra's own teammates call him "negrito" without offense.

-- By contrast, Evra admits calling Suárez "sudaca" before the latter called him "negrito." "Sudaca," by contrast is a very demeaning word in Spanish concerning South Americans that basically means something like "half-breed" in the sense that their Spanish ancestry has been polluted with native and, yes, even African blood. (For that matter, Suarez himself has one-quarter African ancestry.) Strangely, though, even though "sudaca" is quite a bit more offensive than "negrito," the FA panel decided not to charge Evra for using the word he admitted using.

The problem here, for both Suárez and LFC, is that (as I indicated in the subject), this case is rather complex and hinges on some murky cross-cultural and even cross-language issues. But the average fan or news-watcher doesn't know about such issues and doesn't want to know about them; all she or (usually) he needs to hear is that Suárez called Evra "negrito" (which might not even be the case in any event), and immediately jumps from there to a certain understanding that "Suárez called him a 'n****r'! Throw his ass out of football!" and then goes on to feel smug satisfaction that a British panel had the "courage" to take such a "strong stand against racism." To paraphrase the old saw, ignorant "conventional wisdom" is half-way around the world before truth has the time to get its shoes tied.



Rambis

(7,774 posts)
16. Well stated
Fri Dec 23, 2011, 01:49 PM
Dec 2011

Suarez would have been better off saying I never called him anything. He was being honest about negrito because it isn't offensive in the least. What happened to Suarez abusing Evra 10 times, where has that gone? Sudaca should carry a 4 game ban for Evra because that is a very racist word and he has admitted to saying that. The Ferguson Association has blown this into a shit storm of epic proportions by applying white ango saxson sensibilities on Johnny foreigner. If Suarez is a racist I agree chuck the book at him but everything indicates he is not. He is petulant and he is going down a lot but he is being kicked to death(see refs telling him to stay on his feet) out there because he is a good footballer.

fedsron2us

(2,863 posts)
17. Lots of problems with the FAs treatment of Suarez
Sat Dec 24, 2011, 11:55 AM
Dec 2011

In particular the reluctance to immediately publish all the evidence and reasoning behind their decision is troubling

I understand they accepted Suarez explanation that the term 'negrito' had not been used as an intentional racial slur but felt that it might be interpreted as such by someone outside of South America. However, having made what was a not unreasonable judgement they then proceeded to spoil it by slamming an 8 game ban and a £40,000 fine on him. Given that if Suarez had physically kicked Evra off the park he would probably only have got a 2 game ban this seems wildly excessive. Moreover, it seems the FA have made no attempt to investigate Evras role in the incident. He is an educated man, the son of a Senegalese diplomat who has lived in Europe since he was 12 months old and speaks 5 languages. As a French speaker in a league where English is the main language he must have made a conscious decision to engage in conversation with Suarez in Spanish. If he did call Suaraz a 'sudaca', as some claim, then there is a definite suspicion that he may have deliberately chosen the insult Suarez in the hope that it would elicit a response that he could use to bring a charge of racial abuse. This is an area where Evra does have some previous form.

Needless to say the British media and tribalist football fans from other clubs have not bothered to wait for the fineprint about the reasons for the FA judgement and have immediately leaped to the decison that Suarez as a 'racist' is now fair game for any amount of abuse.

The incident has also revealed quasi apartheid cultural stereotyping through which race is handled by officialdom in the UK. With its rather limited sets of racial groups such Black African, Back Caribbean, Indian, Pakistani etc it is really happiest when it can pigeon hole people into a few pre selected boxes. It simply can not handle true cultural diversity. For example, if you look at the tick boxes you find that the Spanish and Portuguese speaking Latino culture of Central and South America simply does not exist. It is therefore not suprising that it has trouble handling Suarez a typical mixed race South American with at least one black ancestor and probably some Native American as well as Spanish roots knocking about in his family. The truth about the UK is that while ,it has eliminated one load of prejudices, others regarding the Spanish speaking world are alive and well. You only have to catch some of the comments about Suarez in the press to know that the Black legend is still in full swing in Northern Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

Personally, the most dismaying thing about this whole affair is that has more to do with the poor discipline and lack of sporting etiquette of modern day footballers than with real racism in sport. To my mind Pele was spot on in highlighting the fact that the very presence of large numbers of foreign and black players in the English game was a sure sign it was not dangerously compromised by racial prejudice. It was sad that so many papers dismissed his comments out of hand so keen were they to put the boot into Suarez. It seems everyone has forgotten the genuinely racist era of the 1960's and 1970s when black players like Clyde Best at West Ham struggled to get a game. For me the reality of what it is like to play sport in a genuine racist environment was highlighted in the recent BBC TV documentary on the Cape Coloured South African cricketer Basil DOlivera. In his cricket career in his native land he suffered relatively little racial verbal abuse on the pitch for the simple reason that under apartheid he was simply not allowed to play against whites or blacks at all.

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