Is David Beckham one of the Premier League all-time greats? He's not even in the top 1,000 says Chri

[oldironside]

Is David Beckham one of the Premier League all-time greats? He's not even in the top 1,000 says Chris Waddle


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/is-david-beckham-one-of-the-premier-league-alltime-greats-hes-not-even-in-the-top-1000-says-chris-waddle-8621220.html

Ah, I remember Chris Waddle. 62 caps where he did a very creditable impression of a man involved in an indifference competition with John Barnes. 62 caps and hwat did he achieve? A little challenge for anyone else who remembers his playing days. Without resorting to google or youtube, name one highlight of Waddle's international career: a goal, a great pass, a fantastic dribble, a pelanty that didn't sail 40 yards over the bar?

As for Becks: single best crosser of the ball I've ever seen, single best free kick specialist, and a passing ability not far behind Glenda herself. If all average Englishmen could do that, England might actually win something.

[Ron Obvious]

1. In his prime, he was world class

It's difficult to separate David Beckham the footballer, from David Beckham the brand. I disliked the latter, but liked him as a player during his United days.

Leaving off the artificial restriction of focussing only on the Premier League era (No Sky, football did NOT start in 1992!), is he one of the greatest players in England's top division? Hard to say, as players from different eras are difficult to compare, but I would certainly say that he was world class in his prime.

He also seemed nice enough, if a bit thick.

[Aquavit]

2. I never saw some of the other contenders in their primes...

but Beckham has to be very much in the conversation doesn't he? The guy's free kicks were amazing!

[oldironside]

3. I have a feeling you'll enjoy this.

[T_i_B]

4. I can remember loads of Chrissy Waddle highlights

Ripping the Blunts defence to pieces at Wembley in 1993 being a particular highlight.

As to the comments about Beckham, well Beckham was a very good player, but there came a point where the media hype was much more then anything he did on the field. There's some truth to what Waddle said. It 100% accurate, but there is a smidgen of truth to it.

[oldironside]

5. I actually did specify...

... Waddle's international career. The list of players good enough to shine for their clubs but short of international class is a long one and Waddle would probably be somewhere near the middle of the top 1000 of that particular list. When the ball ran for him he looked class, but if he didn't fancy it (as he never really did for England) he was the archetypal disappearing footballer. I can recommend Disrepute by Robert Endeacott for a list of supposed all time greats who weren't quite...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Disrepute-Revies-England-Robert-Endeacott/dp/1907183027

The basis of what Waddle said is that Beckham isn't in the top 1000 of Premiership players. Now, that is plainly bullshit. He may not have been Paul Gascoigne or Stan Bowles in terms of raw ability, but he made the most of his gifts in the same way that Kevin Keegan did. As a result they contributed far more to their teams and achieved far more within the game than any half dozen moody geniuses and in my book makes them far better players. Why was Bobby Moore such a great defender? Not just talent, but the ability and desire to apply that talent to achieve your ends, and I think that's true of just about any great player - Pele, van Basten, whoever. Whatever media hype there was is totally irrelevant. His trophy cabinet speaks for itself.

[T_i_B]

6. If you look at the sides he played in......

.....there is a very strong case that he wasn't the best or most important player in most of them. I'd certainly rank Giggs & Scholes above Beckham in the 1999 treble winning side for instance.

[oldironside]

7. "he wasn't the best or most important player in most of them"

You could say that about a lot of all time greats.

Johnny Giles at Leeds: Great player, but as important as Bremner? Doutbful. Was Glenda Spurs' best and most important player? Not while Ardiles was there. Cruyff? Johan Neeskens might have something to say about that. The same goes for Beckenbauer and Gunther Netzer.

Being (arguably) second best to Scholes and Giggs doesn't make you a bad player. Would that I'd been that average.

[SwissTony]

8. The best comment I ever heard about Waddle's games for England was

"He always does his best work in an area of the field where it doesn't count". Can't remember who said it but it struck me as true. I remember an incident where he absolutely diddled an opponent when he was 20 metres inside England's defensive half, ran 10 metres into the opposition half and promptly got clobbered by another player. Pity he couldn't diddle the guy on the edge of the box.

I very much doubt that Becks thinks he was of the most talented players ever to play for England. But he was much more effective than Stan Bowles and much longer lasting than Gazza. Becks made the most of his ability.

Here's another guy I admire for making the most of his (pretty limited) abilities: Steve Claridge!!! Way down below those mentioned above, but he always gave 100%. And he didn't bullshit - "I shinned it!!!!"

[oldironside]

9. Yeah, attitude is a little thing that makes abig difference.

It's all very well having talent, but the all-time greats are united by one thing - the ability to do something game changing even when the chips are down.

I remember during the early days of Serie A on channel 4 watching Marco van Basten play for AC Milan. It was clear to me that not only was he the most talented bloke on the pitch, no one was working harder. He wasn't content to give 85 minutes of round shouldered indifference.

As for Becks: he got England to a world cup single handedly, when the rest of the team froze like rabbits in headlights. That's the difference between a good player, and a great player.