Congratulations to Jim Harbaugh and the Michigan Wolverines -

[calguy]

Cruising to the national championship in the fourth quarter.
Now that Harbaugh has accomplished his goal of winning it all at the collegiate level, will he jump back in the NFL next year?
I'm thinking he's eyeing the Los Angeles Chargers next year.

[Deuxcents]

1. I don't know. I think he likes being The Michigan Man

Was wanting them to win even tho I’m a SEC fan mostly because of LSU

[Xavier Breath]

2. Damn right!

Wonder if Mark Davis loses his remaining touch with reality and backs up a fleet of Brinks trucks at Jim's door?

[Srkdqltr]

3. Money talks and ..... Everything else walks. Congrats Michigan!!!!!!

[MichMan]

4. Facing two separate NCAA rules violations

[Drum]

5. Congrats to MI, but that was far less than either game last week

(the Rose Bowl and the Sugar Bowl). I did not find it an exciting football game

[calguy]

10. I thought it was a good game until Washington let it get away in the fourth quarter

But you're right that it didn't have near the excitement as the games last week. To me, nothing is as exciting as witnessing Alabama get beat.

[hlthe2b]

14. It was apparent to me before half time where this was going. So, off to bed I went...

This morning (I get up VERY early), I find I was absolutely right to do so. Meh. I don't like cheating being rewarded. Sorry, WA. You still had a good season.

[RockRaven]

6. It will be interesting to see what happens. He's got a certain rep, and

the NFL job openings at the moment have rather different narratives and circumstances surrounding them.

[LisaM]

7. He's got a youngish family and I think he likes having them in Ann Arbor.

We'll see. The NCAA has tried to railroad him with some overreaction to relatively minor violations. I'm not saying they didn't happen, but they were overblown. Plus, we had consequences, six games without a head coach, a staffer booted out in disgrace, and an assistant coach fired by the school for not cooperating. So that should all be in the rear view mirror but Harbaugh might be sick of the NCAA.

Anyway, it's great to be a Michigan Wolverine!!

[calguy]

9. You'll get to enjoy that feeling for the next year.

So happy for you.

[catbyte]

8. WHO'S GOT IT BETTER THAN US?

N-O-B-O-D-Y!!!!!!!!!!

[GaYellowDawg]

11. Fuck Jim Harbaugh and the Michigsn Wolverines.

They are an outlaw program, with the same lack of integrity as the Reggie Bush USC teams and the SMU teams of old.

Big Ten programs in general and Michigan in particular have had this condescending arrogance about them for a long time. They have acted as if they have more integrity than other conferences or other teams. They don't. Michigan had an unprecedented level of cheating and their conference let it happen. Their fan base cheered it all on and have treated their cheating program, cheating coaches, and cheating players as heroes. The "Michigan Man" might as well be renamed the "MAGA Man" - nothing matters other than winning.

[LisaM]

12. Unprecedented level of cheating?

You have got to be kidding.

[GaYellowDawg]

40. Yes, unprecedented.

What other program has ever purchased tickets to more than 35 games at 17 stadiums across the country to scout upcoming opponents on their schedule? What other program has purchased tickets to almost every other conference team to scout them? What other program has purchased tickets to scout five potential postseason opponents in three different conferences? That's unprecedented. It's cheating. And you have to be blinded by fandom or just be flat stupid to think that the entire Michigan staff and team didn't know about it.

[hlthe2b]

15. There will be an asterisk on the win, IMO. NCAA really needs to get its act together, but on this, I predict

they will do nothing except drag out an "investigation" for another six to 18 months. But MI does not have pushback from the rest of the conferences (most that have said little) as much as Ohio State and Michigan State will continue to hammer away. That the Big Ten saw enough evidence (including that the episode likely DID affect play in previous games) to act while the NCAA sat on its hands underscores the problems in college football.

Michigan played well in Houston and I congratulate the players and the rest of the coaches/fans. But, yeah, there probably should always be an "asterisk" on this win. That is unfortunate for the players and dedicated fans, but downplaying the seriousness of what happened is not the way to go forward. It certainly does nothing to deter others in the future.

[LisaM]

16. Michigan was penalized heavily during the season.

Six games without a head coach, two coaches gone, the NCAA doing everything they could to disrupt the season, the media ignoring the 1000th win, waiting until Michigan was actually headed to State College before announcing Harbaugh's suspension, and a significantly disproportionate media response to a second tier infraction which Harbaugh did not know about (I believe that: YMMV). All this because some eager beaver yahoo exploited what he thought was a loophole in the rule. That guy (Stallions) needs help and I hope he gets it. And Navy should explain why they didn't warn other schools about him.

But this hardly rises to the level of things like what happened at Penn State, UNC paying players, the number of sexual predators who have been allowed back on teams, point shaving scandals, and the like. I could go on, though the NCAA has decided to legitimize the stuff USC and OSU did.

Everyone acts as if Michigan didn't suffer any consequences. But they did - during the season, with strategically placed bursts of "outrage" - and got through it.

[hlthe2b]

17. Uh huh. If it were an ACC or SEC team, I'd bet I'd hear something quite different from you.

Not "everyone does it." Nor as your quarterback said on camera, "we had to do it because Ohio State was doing it." Good gawd. If I were you, I'd acknowledge the issue and hope that NCAA comes together with the conferences to come up with a strategy going forward to prevent this--the obvious being a technological solution like NFL uses for "calls" but likewise a uniform investigation and penalty system. I don't want the team members penalized--especially after their win. But, this is not a token issue. It is cheating, even if low tech and relatively unsophisticated.

I suspect you won't read this, but you should:

How would college football react to Michigan as champ after sign-stealing scandal? 'It's not good for the game'

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-would-college-football-react-to-michigan-as-champ-after-sign-stealing-scandal-its-not-good-for-the-game-223302445.html

[LisaM]

19. Believe me, I have read it all.

I come from a football family, my dad was a coach, and I can tell the difference between actual cheating and a rules infraction that the coaching staff didn't even know about. I am sorry if you can't tell the difference. Among other things, this is an arcane rule, put into place before every fan on the sidelines had a camera, and was left over from a time when it created an economic disparity for some teams to be able to afford to film from the sidelines while others couldn't. Those days are long gone and while I do believe Conor Stallions broke the rule, I don't think the players and Harbaugh knew. The situation was dealt with. It floors me how people don't see that Michigan was penalized significantly during the season. If it was the SEC, no coach would have sat out a game.

McCarthy's comments were taken out of context. Again, sorry if you won't see that.

They're a great group of kids who worked through a lot. Among other things, they were wrongly snubbed for every national award, including best O-Line, which Washington clearly did not deserve. They only scored 13 points! I actually had a friend complain because Penix was tackled so often. First, he wasn't, and second, where's the superior line? Polishing their trophies?

Go Blue.

[hlthe2b]

20. Your claims are meaningless. If you were correct the Big 10 would have ignored it--not hastily

sanctioned with a Harbaugh suspension in the hopes of deterring NCAA from doing more. I suspect they are right in their assumption that nothing more will happen with this as NCAA has been largely toothless in many matters that might cost conferences $$$ even while it hurts the sport.

Covering for cheating is abysmal. If it had been a team that I support I would have expressed disgust and gratitude that the conference's action would not impact the players, but rather place total benefit of the doubt outside the guilty coordinator and the Head Coach, who is ultimately responsible. Then I would be demanding changes--along with other fans, former players, and alumnae. Not making excuses. Maybe if Harbaugh does go to the NFL--where such behavior and tactics are likely more the norm, ethical change will happen. For the sake of MI players, fans, and remaining coaches, I hope that does happen. Because sadly, there IS an asterisk on this season and win for Michigan. Players, fans, and alumnae SHOULD be upset about that.

‘Hail to the Cheaters’: Michigan’s national title is legit, and will always be dirty | Opinion

Read more at: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article283860658.html#storylink=cpy

[MichMan]

22. One of the open investigations concerns meeting with a recruit during Covid when all recruiting was prohibited

Then when questioned about it, from my understanding Harbaugh wasn't truthful about it. That allegation has not yet been resolved. Michigan suggested a self imposed 4 game suspension, which the NCAA turned down as not being sufficient, so instead, the university gave him a 3 game suspension. If 4 wasn't deemed enough, why poke them with a stick by giving him 3?

How is that a rules infraction that the coach didn't even know about ?

As far as Stallions goes, he paid surrogates to go to games, sit across the sidelines and film the signals of future opponents. In addition, there are pictures of him in disguise on the sidelines of a Central Michigan game pretending to be a CMU coach. It is irrelevant is the rule is "arcane" or not.

The university is responsible for the actions of their coaches, whether Harbaugh knew about it or not. That is the classic definition of "a lack of institutional control" That investigation isn't over either; the Big 10 is done with it, but the NCAA is not.

[LisaM]

24. Harbaugh admitted that happened.

He just said he didn't lie about it (also a relatively minor infraction).

In the meantime there was an actual hazing scandal in the B1G *THIS SEASON*, which everyone seems to have forgotten about. So you can understand why people are puzzled that the NCAA and a certain element of fans are fixated on two rules infractions, neither of which Michigan has denied, and seems intent on blowing them out of proportion, even though Michigan already has paid for it with suspensions at critical times of the season. But as I know from growing up near MSU, Michigan hate runs deep in some circles.

This conversation is finished, I am sure we both feel like we're talking to a wall.

[MichMan]

27. According to the NCAA, he did lie and it is a Level 1 violation

Which is considered serious.

Michigan even gave him a self imposed 3 game suspension. This was after they proposed to the NCAA that they would give him 4 games off in an attempt to avoid any further penalties. The NCAA said it wasn't sufficient.

What did Michigan do after being told 4 games weren't enough? They gave him 3. lol Might as well have poked the NCAA in the eye with a stick.

[MichMan]

26. Penalized heavily?

Of the games he was suspended from ( three of which were self imposed by Michigan, not the NCAA or Big 10) half were against early season non conference opponents where Michigan was favored by 30 points. The first 3 were for an earlier violation regarding recruiting during Covid when it was prohibited and Harbaugh allegedly didn't tell the truth when questioned. Michigan proposed a 4 game self imposed suspension, and the NCAA said that wasn't sufficient. So what did Michigan do; gave him a 3 game suspension instead ?

Yes, there were two assistant coaches gone, fired by Michigan for their roles in the sign stealing violation. One of them was Conor Stallion. That's what happens to people that violate rules.

The disdain many people have for this athletic program is that they put themselves on a pedestal as being morally superior to every other college. Then when caught violating the rules, they circle the wagons and dismiss everything as a "nothing burger" and that everyone does it, so no big deal.

When you act for decades like you have the moral character that other colleges don't, it's pretty hypocritical to then use the excuse that "everyone does it" If you want to cheat and break the rules like everyone else you claim does, quit acting like you're better than everyone else.

[GaYellowDawg]

41. Laughable "penalties."

Suspensions against East Carolina, UNLV, and Bowling Green? Although Michigan is the team that lost to Appalachian State, the suspension of Harbaugh for those games was an absolutely laughable penalty. You could have plugged the worst coach in America into those games and won them, given the disparity in talent. Penn State and Maryland are second-tier teams. And it's not like Michigan's coaching staff couldn't adjust to one coach being out by the time the Ohio State game came around.

The NCAA didn't do nearly everything they could to "disrupt Michigan's season." They could have slapped a postseason ban. That would have been everything they could do. You are also conveniently calling the scandal a "tier II violation" when you know good and well that it's the recruiting scandal that is level II, not the scouting. But I'm not surprised that a Michigan fan would just sweep everything under the rug - your outlaw basketball program got you used to that kind of thing. And as far as the Penn State controversy goes: Dr. Robert Anderson says hello. No wonder you blithely believe Harbaugh when he denies he knew anything about it.

And adversity? Please. Any criticism, scrutiny, consequences, or other "adversity" is entirely self-inflicted, and there aren't a lot of non-Michigan fans who don't view your program and its fanbase with complete contempt when you whine about "adversity." It's this simple:

A: Michigan cheats.
B. World: Michigan cheated!
C: Michigan: You noticed our cheating? No fair, the world is against us!

Get used to the asterisk.

[calguy]

18. In my mind, there'll be an asterisk on your post, but not this championship

[hlthe2b]

21. Hardly my thoughts alone, but feel free to attack me.

‘Hail to the Cheaters’: Michigan’s national title is legit, and will always be dirty
Read more at: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article283860658.html#storylink=cpy

Michigan deserved this title. But the silly and unnecessary scandals won't be forgotten.
The fact that Michigan didn’t need to cheat to win doesn’t erase what happened. It will forever be part of the history of this season, and it was all so silly and unnecessary.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2024/01/09/michigan-football-championship-jim-harbaugh-scandals/72158457007/

Michigan’s Jim Harbaugh delivers championship title over Washington amid cheating scandal
https://arizonasports.com/story/3541099/michigans-jim-harbaugh-delivers-championship-title-over-washington-amid-cheating-scandal/

The brutal truth Michigan must face even if it wins national championship
https://nypost.com/2024/01/07/sports/the-truth-michigan-must-face-even-if-it-wins-national-title/

Michigan football’s convincing national championship run raises new questions about cheating scandal -- Jimmy Watkins
https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2024/01/michigan-footballs-convincing-national-championship-run-raises-new-questions-about-cheating-scandal-jimmy-watkins.html

The Michigan Sign-Stealing Story Is the Perfect College-Football Scandal
https://www.newyorker.com/sports/sporting-scene/the-michigan-sign-stealing-story-is-the-perfect-college-football-scandal

So clearly there is widespread acceptance across the sports community that while Michigan deserved their win, their season is marred by this scandal, the extent to which individuals were involved is not clear, and its implications for assisting in games prior to being caught will likely never be known. For these reasons and more, there is and will be an asterisk on the season and championship-- excellent though Michigan's play clearly was. I'm sorry that is the case but that is why it behooves fans, alumnae, former players, and the other coaches to not ignore the issue, claim that all the teams (especially Ohio State) do it as well, claim it is no big deal, but INSTEAD, make sure it doesn't happen again.

[calguy]

23. I'm not attacking you

I'm just pointing your obsession to bring up what everyone already knows right after winning their national title. I would have let it rest to at least give their fans a night to celebrate, but I guess you don't see it that way.
You're obsession is clearly demonstrated by all the sour-grape articles you just posted. Hence the asterisk I put on your post, and your opinion.

Sooo... on to the NFL playoffs next week. And scandals you'd like to tell us about in advance?

[hlthe2b]

25. It appears to be your obsession, given the wide swath of sports punditry mentioning the permanent *

It may offend you, but it is there with good reason. You can continue to attack me but there is wide agreement and you can't effectively lash out at all who do. Not sure what it does to help you. Truth is truth. And that * will remain. Hopefully (and likely) not to be replaced by more punitive NCAA actions. For the sake of the players, I hope that is the case.

Continue to attack me if you wish. I do not condone cheating in college sports. IF you do, then it is YOU who carries the asterisk and the personal shame.

[calguy]

30. I didn't bring it up... YOU did

You should probably start your own thread about it if you want to chastise the coach and the program. I started this thread to congratulated them on their national title. You're the one who just had to diminish that accomplishment, and then, like trump would do, claim that you're the one being attacked.

"Michigan vs Everybody: Michigan's season was rocked by a sign-stealing scandal. Their championship is proof, players and coaches say, that stealing signs isn't why they won games, writes Yahoo Sports' Ross Dellenger.
Since the sign-stealer — Connor Stalions — was exposed and resigned from the staff, Michigan went 8-0.
The Wolverines beat their in-state rival, Michigan State, by 49 points, quite literally ran over No. 9 Penn State in Happy Valley (without their head coach), beat No. 2 Ohio State (without their head coach), clobbered No. 18 Iowa, won a Rose Bowl semifinal over No. 4 Alabama and trounced the second-ranked Huskies.

‌"We're legends," said Braiden McGregor, a senior edge rusher. "Everybody said we couldn't do it. 'Oh, we're going to put an asterisk if they win the national championship!' Nobody can say anything now."

[hlthe2b]

31. You seem to ignore this is a discussion board & more importantly nearly all sportscasters & pundits

are saying this. So take your disdain where it belongs. I didn't tell MI to cheat and now they have a much-deserved * over an accomplishment that would otherwise have been simply, completely, and deservedly lauded. It is their fault and the fans who did not/do not hold them to account to standards can surely expect more in the future. As others are demonstrating upstream, this is the second round of violations for Harbaugh in a single season. One would think he'd have learned. But... *

[calguy]

32. Yada.. Yada... Yada

[hlthe2b]

33. * * * * *

You best stay away from the college football websites (non-Michigan) because a lot of posters want NCAA to send a message in terms of the repeated violations at MI this year, including cheating. I advocate for none of what might happen if NCAA decides to make an example throughout college football--because I don't blame the players-- but the * is permanent and deserved.

[calguy]

34. Blah... Blah... Blah....

[hlthe2b]

35. *

(takes very little to goad you, it seems)...

[calguy]

36. No, I just don't have time for your drivel.

[hlthe2b]

37. *

Apparently you do.

Beware or others on this thread may pick up on your OTT reaction to a simple * LOL

[GaYellowDawg]

42. Does your mind have the ability?

To assign an asterisk? It doesn't seem like it's working very well at the moment.

[Irish_Dem]

29. Yep. We just learned in football, crime certainly pays.

You are allowed to cheat to win.
What a disgrace.

NCAA and FBI investigations mean nothing to a lawless group of people.

[Botany]

13. Give him a break. Jim, his family, and Big Blue need a chance to enjoy things.

I hope he stays @ U. of M. and he and his family could be really happy in Ann Arbor, along with a cabin*
on a lake or river in the bush, and the chance to go to a warm spot in the winter too.

*. Maybe a Harbaugh family place with trained otters to protect

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Jim and his coaches did a great job of kept up feeding Corum the ball when he was just getting
A few to 5 yards in the middle of the game but that kept the clock moving, the ball secure, and
later on a chance to put the game away.

[nightwing1240]

28. Congrats to U of M

I don't know if the Steelers would move on from Mike Tomlin but imagine the Harbaugh brothers in the AFC North.

[gibraltar72]

38. Don't think Washington had seen

anything like the speed and ferocity of Mi. D line. At the end Penix did not want to be hit anymore. Quit stepping into his throws and just got ball out of his hands..

[calguy]

39. I think his draft stock fell off last night

He's not the biggest QB, and he has a history of getting injured. He missed some easy throws that could have turned the game when he got flustered, and didn't look like a top NFL QB prospect to me. But the Raiders will probably draft him as the next messiah.
He seems like a quality young man, so I hope he has a successful NFL career.

[Scrivener7]

43. Why do sports always bring out the asshole in people? This whole thread is full of people acting like children.

[calguy]

44. So true

I intended to congratulate a team for it's accomplishment, and it ended up a political style bashing of their coach.