Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

The Polack MSgt

(13,426 posts)
Wed Oct 24, 2018, 11:41 AM Oct 2018

The level of play in the playoffs has been outstanding

Except for one position.

The catchers' play has ranged from mediocre to awful.

Passed balls, bad framing, poor throws on steals, poor effort on bunted balls - Name a catcher pet peeve and it has been on display this October.

Part of the problem is that the best catchers either didn't make it (Molina Posey Maldanado) or got bounced early (Contreras).

That doesn't explain how usually serviceable catchers such as Yasmani Grandal for the Dodgers and Christian Vasquez for Boston have had sub Par playoff runs.

I sometimes get grief for being an unabashed Yadier Molina fanboy, but watching game after game of piss poor catcher play is making my head hurt.

In the 20 years I've lived in the St Louis area, I had the pleasure to watch 12 Gold Glove seasons by Mike Matheny (4) and Yadi Molina (8).

That's not even the whole story because I still think Mike was robbed in 2002 (for Brad Ausmus) and Yadi was better defensively than Brad Ausmus (AGAIN!) in 2006 and better than Buster Posey in 2016.

Bad backstops bother me in a fundamental way.

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The level of play in the playoffs has been outstanding (Original Post) The Polack MSgt Oct 2018 OP
It's more metrics gone mad BeyondGeography Oct 2018 #1
That's A Very Astute Perspective ProfessorGAC Oct 2018 #2
Warren Spahn BeyondGeography Oct 2018 #3
Maddux ProfessorGAC Oct 2018 #4
Perfect example BeyondGeography Oct 2018 #5
The Red Sox have a big offseason decision to make. Blue_true Oct 2018 #6

BeyondGeography

(40,015 posts)
1. It's more metrics gone mad
Wed Oct 24, 2018, 11:50 AM
Oct 2018
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ny-sports-flaherty-catching-grandal-postseason-20181018-story.html

Good perspective on that from ex-catcher John Flaherty.

“In today’s analytic-based front offices, catchers’ defense is valued differently,” Flaherty said. “Like pitch framing and game-calling.”

Pitch framing and “stealing strikes” - meaning being able to sell a pitch in the strike zone to a homeplate umpire - are valued in the analytical-heavy front offices as well as the ability to stick to the game plan. Those plans on how to pitch an opposing lineup are usually handed down from the baseball operations department and catchers are now evaluated on how closey they stick to the script.

“There is less seeing how a catcher reacts to situations by gut and feel for a game or a pitcher,” Flaherty said. “That’s part of it.”

“The velocity is up and the spin rate is up, but you are seeing guys who don’t have as much control,” Flaherty said Thursday in a phone interview. “I see catchers and it looks like it’s going very fast for them and they don’t have confidence in where the ball is going. They are asking them to cover the whole plate, inside and out, up and down and that’s really hard to do.”


Too many strikeouts, too, but the numbers say big flies are worth big money, so...


ProfessorGAC

(69,909 posts)
2. That's A Very Astute Perspective
Wed Oct 24, 2018, 01:48 PM
Oct 2018

Interestingly, three 300 game winners that went into HoF fairly recently were notable because of their control. Their stuff wasn't "filthy" but they go people out, over and over and over.

BeyondGeography

(40,015 posts)
3. Warren Spahn
Wed Oct 24, 2018, 01:58 PM
Oct 2018

Not recent, but ever true:

“Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing.”

I miss watching the masters who could approach the same hitter three or four different ways and go the full nine. Even when they didn’t have their best stuff it was compelling. I remember seeing Valenzuela throw 160 pitches here against the Mets once, gave up four runs or so but won the game, extricating himself from jams in the late innings by getting hitting geniuses like Keith Hernandez out on guile. Good times, never to be seen again.

ProfessorGAC

(69,909 posts)
4. Maddux
Wed Oct 24, 2018, 02:32 PM
Oct 2018

Another great example. He could throw is 94 if he wanted to, but he could throw the fastball with 2 movements at three different speeds, the slider at 3 different speeds and the change up at 4.

Then he had 3 different timings to the plate based upon how long he hung his foot while still moving into his throwing motion with his arm.

If that doesn't disrupt timing, i don't see what would!

Of course it helped that he could throw a golf ball into a soup can from second base.

BeyondGeography

(40,015 posts)
5. Perfect example
Wed Oct 24, 2018, 02:47 PM
Oct 2018

Master of command, which has been known to decrease with velocity. It’s not that hard for ML hitters to hit a high-90s fastball down the middle. See it all the time.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
6. The Red Sox have a big offseason decision to make.
Sun Oct 28, 2018, 09:28 PM
Oct 2018

The picture that threw 6 innings in the 18 inning marathon when the team's pitching was exhausted and who has been excellent in the offseason, is a free agent and he was already on several teams radar. My choice if I were the GM, he is 28 with a medical history (two elbow surgeries), but looks like a strong future picture if managed right. I would give his a great offer that would cause him not to want to look elsewhere. With the pitching staff the Red Soc now have, another WS soon is not out of the question.

Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Baseball»The level of play in the ...