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spooky3

(36,204 posts)
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 11:39 AM Jun 2023

Interesting post on why US athletes don't win as much

This is a Quora post from 2017 (by Mike, an 35-year tennis coach) and though it focuses on tennis, I wonder if sons of the points apply to other endeavors as well.

“ As a US tennis coach at top training programs for more than 35 years I can answer this decisively, as I’ve personally witnessed this dispiriting fall from the United States ruling the tennis world to becoming an also-ran since 2003—and it has little to do with “training on clay”, “the everybody wins culture”, “new string technology” or the usual excuses, the reasons are much broader and deeper problems in American society and sports preparation.

1. The American “class bias” in tennis and the general collapse in America’s youth investment and social mobility. Tennis classes and equipment can be expensive, costing thousands of dollars a year, but in America, if you don’t already come from a rich family, you’ll get squat as far as help or assistance for your career, or you’ll be forced into debt. The USA has basically rejected the idea of community youth investment, for sports and in general, the same reason our college grads have $1.4 trillion in student loans for essential education. This is a dramatic change from when I started tennis coaching and it’s part of the general shift of America away from a socially mobile society to a practically feudal aristocratic one, that has pulled up the ladders for its lower, middle and even many of its “less than rich” upper classes. The short version: if you don’t start out with a trust fund, you’re stuck, especially for a sport like tennis that requires years of youth investment. This is a major, fatal disadvantage for American tennis. In Europe, South America and lately in Asia, kids from all social classes have a shot at a tennis career. If they show sufficient talent and motivation, there are numerous community organizations, government programs and general social assistance systems to help build up their careers, in part because these other societies strongly support investment in their youth. Even those who don’t show initial tennis promise are encouraged to keep at it, and many go on to develop that talent later on. Thus the other countries have a much greater talent pool and motivated, mentally tough kids from the lower and middle classes who see tennis as a shot to a solid career as a professional athlete and a tool for social mobility. Myself and a number of other coaches do what we can to provide free or reduced-cost tennis lessons to kids without major means, but every year we realize how much we’re swimming against the tide in the US, compared to our European and South American counterparts for whom there’s much more community support to assisting kids from all social classes.

2. The US healthcare and general health insurance mess. Anyone who’s followed the careers of tennis athletes from the Top 100 through the Challenger Tour and Futures Tournaments knows that injuries happen in tennis. A lot. So good general health care and medical assistance are a must. For Europeans, South Americans, Asians and Aussies this isn’t a problem, when you get injured, you simply go to a physician and get the problem fixed, and you’re back on the court with no financial hardships. In the USA? If you get sometimes even a minor injury on the court, let alone one that requires surgery, you can be set back tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars out of pocket, even if you are insured! I can’t describe the frustration of seeing great tennis prospects going bankrupt or losing their savings due to medical bills from the lunatic American medical system. Again, the breakdown in American tennis is due to a much more fundamental breakdown in American society and policy, and until this is fixed, America will not have a tennis resurgence.

3. Parental involvement and family leave. Again this is a broader societal problem that has trickled down to throttle America’s tennis competitiveness. in Europe, Asia and parts of South America, parents are able to take advantage of a variety of family leave policies that allow them to take off time from work without a major career penalty, and focus attention on their kids, including taking them to tennis practices and academies and generally just being with them as they improve. America has Third World parental leave policies as well as skyrocketing costs of living that force both parents to constantly work or search for jobs when the economy is down, which then makes it impossible to help nurture kids’ budding tennis talent. The result? Very depressing and I see it all the time. A budding talent simply doesn’t have the family support network to do the little things that help their talent develop, causing them to get frustrated and quit.

4. General lack of motivation and mental toughness, maybe associated with all the social media obsessiveness today, from my observations much more in the US than in other countries. I was coaching US kids intensively back when Andre Agassi, Pete Sampras, Jim Courier, Andy Roddick, Todd Martin, MaliVai Washington and Michael Chang were rising through the Juniors Circuit, and worked directly with a number of kids out of the Bollettieri and other top academies. Those guys and girls were motivated to get better and better, building up confidence and not being rattled by setbacks. Today, there just seems to be much less patience for that sort of thing and a lack of the sustained attention that’s needed to become great at the sport. This applies to both the men’s and the women’s game—once Venus and Serena Williams retire, we just don’t really have anyone else of their sustained discipline and drive. On the men’s side, Jack Sock, Steve Johnson, Donald Young, Sam Querrey and John Isner— and potentially Frances Tiafoe, Noah Rubin, Ryan Harrison, Stefan Kozlov, Tommy Paul and Taylor Fritz— certainly have a lot of the right stuff, but the difference compared to 20 or 30 years ago is that we’d have dozens of prospects like that in contention, and the sheer number of talented Americans would help to ensure that at least one or two of them would break through into the top ranks. Our talent pool is much thinner now in part because the persistence to develop that talent just isn’t there as much as before.
Plummeting birth rate in the US. This is a more subtle factor but ever since 2007 it’s been picking up steam and it’s hitting the USA especially hard. The costs of living, healthcare, student loans and other factors in the USA are much more of a financial burden in the United States than in any other country, combining to push the US fertility rates down to their lowest levels in our history, and those of us involved in youth sports coaching have been seeing the effects over the past 3 years especially with a steep and worsening decline in the number of young prospects we even have a chance to recruit and train. My team and I are involved in multi-city coaching clubs, and the talent pool among young kids has dried up in part because the births themselves, the country’s general TFR, have dried up. While it’s true that this is happening to varying extents in other countries too, it’s hitting the United States much harder since it compounds all the other factors above, and makes it that much harder for American youth tennis to make a recovery.

5. American kids opting for other sports. Yes, this is a factor but not nearly as much of one as is often made out. It is true that tennis is America has to compete with football, basketball, baseball, hockey, track-and-field, soccer, swimming, volleyball and wrestling for popularity, and this does reduce the potential talent pool. But here’s the thing, the same challenge was facing American tennis 20 and 30 years ago back when Agassi, Sampras, Courier and the other American top champions were working their way through, and if anything the basketball craze was even more intense than it is now. Yet we still had a massive talent pool for tennis, unsurprising given our overall population size. Not to mention that other countries also have similar competition for recruits into these other sports except for American football, and soccer is much more of a craze abroad. Yet they’re able to field and recruit top talent. So it’s really the other actors above that explain the sharp decline in American tennis, and the factors we’ll need to address if we hope to turn it around even slightly.”

Your thoughts?

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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ProfessorGAC

(69,881 posts)
12. Silly
Wed Jun 7, 2023, 11:52 AM
Jun 2023

Golf is a participation sport for many people for 60+ years.
Losing speed doesn't change the game except for distance, but that's why they have different tee boxes.
There are 3 different skillsets in golf, some even less affected by age.
Let's be honest, 90% of golf viewership are people who actually play golf, so it's not a riveting watch for those who don't play. But, for those who play, there's a lot to watch.
It may be boring to you, but that doesn't make it inherently boring.

hlthe2b

(106,349 posts)
13. Not at all silly. The same things you said about golf apply to tennis. Most who watch, play.
Wed Jun 7, 2023, 12:01 PM
Jun 2023

THAT is and WAS the point.

ProfessorGAC

(69,881 posts)
14. Still Silly
Wed Jun 7, 2023, 12:07 PM
Jun 2023

That's not at all what you said. You said essentially nothing in your first post.
You just denigrated something because YOU don't care for it.

hlthe2b

(106,349 posts)
15. No, ProfessorGAC. To the contrary. It was the OP who said Tennis was boring. I brought up
Wed Jun 7, 2023, 12:23 PM
Jun 2023

the similarities of tennis to golf. Those who find it boring are typically those who have never played.

What gives? You seem to be picking fights today that are not there.

hlthe2b

(106,349 posts)
2. Takes me back to public school high school tennis team. Playing against the wealthy
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 11:50 AM
Jun 2023

kids from Catholic and other private schools-- who'd just returned from extended tennis camps or vacations in the Bahamas, Bermuda, or elsewhere, with the best of equipment and private coaches.

I was never going to be a great player, but even those on the team with far more skill than I just really could not make up the difference with "grit."

There has been some attempt to bring opportunity to inner city kids with tennis camps. Arthur Ashe set a great example for that in Richmond, VA. But, it will take a lot to bring anything approaching equal opportunity to most kids in this country. Venus and Serena Williams, aside, there are just not that many kids with that level of possibility and that kind of determined, dedicated parent.

 

brewens

(15,359 posts)
4. I'm 62 and when I was in grade school, all kinds of kids rode their bikes to school with their
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 11:53 AM
Jun 2023

baseball "mitt" on their handlebars. If you drove by any school Saturday morning, there was a game going on. Baseball, football or basketball in season. You had to wait for a court for tennis or if you were old enough, drive to the next court and do the same thing. In a small city in Idaho.

I can't remember seeing what I could tell was a pickup baseball game and the nearby tennis courts are never busy. Same with the outdoor basketball courts. I walk by three schools on a regular basis, and it is nothing like we grew up. That has to show up somewhere.

CrispyQ

(38,262 posts)
7. I'm about the same age.
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:06 PM
Jun 2023

The kids we considered fat back then would be called chubby or plump today, and I can only think of three, in my class, who were a little heavier than the rest of us.

rainy

(6,208 posts)
5. My daughter played on travel soccer teams and later did travel volleyball. Kids in her school
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 11:56 AM
Jun 2023

district and statewide had to play on expensive travel teams to even think about getting on a Middle School or High School team. She is a natural athlete and made it on the schools' teams from 6th grade on. I used to sit there and think that there must be so much talent out there in the poorer areas where their talents would not be realized if they couldn't afford to be on a travel team. It upset me. I taught in the school system and its easy to see how unfair advantages unlevel the playing field.

rsdsharp

(10,118 posts)
8. I live in Iowa. I had a partner who's twelve year old son
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:10 PM
Jun 2023

went to the Chris Everett Lloyd tennis academy in Boca Raton, Florida. His mother moved down there, too, because he was too young to be on his own.

Another partner built a batting cage in his backyard for his baseball playing kid, and the kid also had a personal coach. One December my friend came into my office with two catcher’s mitts. These were professional level mitts, both Wilson’s; one an A2000 series, and the other an A2K. He had custom ordered one as a Christmas present for his son, and when it didn’t turn out the way he wanted — the kid’s embroidered nickname was done in the wrong colored thread — he ordered the other mitt. These mitts ran about $500 a piece.

Neither of them became professional athletes, but the mind boggles at the amount of money spent trying.

CrispyQ

(38,262 posts)
9. I call it the lowest common denominator syndrome.
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 12:27 PM
Jun 2023

That's what society is sinking down to. We've never been perfect, but our standards were higher in the past. We didn't always succeed, but our leaders, our judges, our police, were held to a higher standard & shamed when they failed. Not all the time, but we at least tried to make an effort but now that's gone. In fact, it's upside-down. Those at the top, those with a lot, are cut more slack, given more chances, more opportunity, than those at the bottom. And that in turn, encourages more of those at the bottom to do the same, because why the fuck not? How else are you going to get ahead in this dog-eat-dog world without screwing someone else? All because rich people don't want to share & we won't make them.

If we taxed the richest people in the country,
they'd still be the richest people in the country.

brush

(57,497 posts)
10. Quite a few factors contributing to our shallow talent pool.
Tue Jun 6, 2023, 01:02 PM
Jun 2023

Lack of government financial support/healthcare have to be the major ones as building mental toughness to setbacks from injuries and of course no access to top coaching, which costs money.

Naomi Osaka's father followed Richard William's model in helping he get to top levels. Guess that's too tough a route to go though.

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