Just watched "Max on Boxing" and it was discussed...

[brush]

Last edited Mon Nov 7, 2022, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

that the '70s was the golden age of the heavyweights with greats like Muhammed Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle and maybe Jimmy Young...not to mention Larry Holmes was coming quickly.

I agree, Max did however say that now is a pretty competitive heavyweight era too...what with Tyson Fury, Oleksandr Usyk, Deontay Wilder, Anthony Joshua, Joe Joyce, Andy Ruiz Jr., Dillian Whyte and some others coming up.

What say you? Could these guys compete with the '70s greats, which included Ali, the goat?

[True Dough]

1. It's pretty clear that Fury and Usyk are the cream of the crop today

The other contemporaries you mentioned are a step below them, perhaps two.

How Fury and Usyk would compare against the greats of the '70s is a fascinating question. We'll never know and can only speculate. Fury vs. Ali would be interesting as hell with their incredible head movement and feints.

But, for now, I'd settle for Fury vs. Usyk. That's realistic. I favor Fury due to his enormous size advantage, but Usyk has an unbelievable amateur record and has defied the odds at HW. You can't count him out.

[brush]

2. Fury vs. Usyk will be great. Can't wait to see it.

Do you think Wilder is done? Fury just ultimately too big for him?

What was great about the '70s is there was no ducking, most of those guys fought each other. It was said that Quarry was the gatekeeper. If anyone got past Quarry, then the others would consider fight him.

[True Dough]

3. Wilder just KO'd Robert Helenius three weeks ago

Not exactly a top-ranked name, but it was a "return to form" of sorts of Wilder, who is known for his heavy hands.

Fury has proven to be his kryptonite, however. Styles make fights, as they say, and Fury has looked like the better, more skilled fighter between the two in essentially all the rounds they've fought over two fights, except one -- the round where Wilder seemingly knocked Fury into tomorrow, but then Fury beat the count (which some argue was too slow).

It was a dramatic moment. Worth another watch.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Fury Is Gigantic

And, he has excellent defensive fundamentals.
I think he'd be excellent in any era.
Could he beat Ali or Foreman or Frazier? I don't know any further than "it's possible".
I don't think Usyk or Wilder are quite at that trans-generational level. Very, very good, but not in the "contender in any era" class.

[brush]

5. Agreed. The current crop of heavyweights...

are good but Fury is the one who could compete with the greats from the '70s.

A few years back if this hypothetical was asked I'd add the big Klitschko brothers to the trans-generational class.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. I Can See That

I think I'd put Vladimir ahead of his brother, but they were both superb.
BTW, did you know both of them have PhDs?

[brush]

7. Really? I didn't know that. They're Ukrainian, right?

And isn't one the mayor of a city and both are keen on defending their country against the Russian invasion?

[ProfessorGAC]

8. Yes

Vitali became a politician.
They both have doctorates in sports science.
Kinesiology of performance, injury rehab, injury prevention & the like.
I took a bird course (1 hour of added credit) on the kinesiology & technique of track & field, my 3rd year of college.
Fascinating stuff. After that, I understood why every world class high jumper changed to the Fosbury method in the early to mid 70s.
I also found out why I was good at long jumping. Naturally, it was after I quit long jumping! LOL!

[brush]

9. I remember the change to the Fosbury method.

It makes sense to me, someone with no expertise at all in kinesiology, as the jumper gets the power from both legs to get off the ground instead of the old straddle role method with one takeoff leg.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. The Flop Is Still A 1 Leg Take Off

The real advantage is that jumping off the leg farthest from the bar allows deeper knee flexation & a lowering of the center of mass toward the jump force.
I was a left footed jumper, so I ran the "J" shaped approach from the right side of the pit.
This allows the other leg to be thrust up getting the knee up, moving the center of mass up at the start of the arc.
The biggest advantage to the flop is it more efficiently uses the overall momentum of the approach to convert it to vertical launch,, without losing much of the lateral motion..
Fosbury didn't actually invent it, but he did greatly refine it and absolutely popularized it.
I switched after my freshman year of high school. That year I was 5'1" and had a best of 5'6.5". After I switched I was 5'4" and cleared 6' 1". Went from 5.5 inches above my height to 9".
Of course, I got stronger with a maturing body, but I had nowhere to practice. My HS had no track.
My 3rd year (and last before college) I was 5'7", and cleared 6'6" several times. Never made 6'7" though.
At state, everyone who beat me was 6'2" or taller.
Now, nearly all world class high jumpers, men & women, are tall.
There's a technical advantage there, too. The higher the center of mass starts, the better.

[brush]

11. Thanks for explanation. I have to say clearing 6'6"...

was impressive back then. Had the record reached 7 feet then?

[ProfessorGAC]

12. Yeah, Way Over

I think it was around 7'6" at the time. Dwight Stones broke the record a couple months after my last year.
He was 6'6" tall so a foot over his height.
Even more incredible, is Javier Sotomayor. He's only 6'4" tall but cleared 8 feet and gas held the record for nearly 35 years.
Of course, he was from Cuba & the late 80s was the peak of Soviet sponsored nations doping with steroids. Things that make me go "Hmmm".
Every guy that held the record between him and Stones were 6'6" to 6'8".
It's so technique and timing driven that reps and refinement are key.
Some of us had no way to do that. Not that would have ever been world class. Just better than I was.