Advice please..

[clarice]

As a budding short story writer, I have noticed that my "dialogue" sucks.
Can anyone rec. a book or website on writing effective dialogue?
Anyone else have this problem?

[Orrex]

1. Can you post a sample? (nt)

[clarice]

2. Hi Orrex...

I am finishing up a story... as soon as I finish, I will post.
Question, is it safe to post stories on the forum? Or should I post to you directly?

[Orrex]

3. Depends what you plan to do.

If you post it here, there's a fair chance that a future prospective publisher will consider your story "previously published." Others are less uptight about it, but it's worth bearing in mind.

If you can get into a closed online writing forum, one that requires membership to post or read, then you'll be safer because you can share your work without "publishing" it.

Another possibility would be to post a sample that you've written as practice, rather than with the intent to submit anywhere. That way you won't lose anything that you might have tried to publish, but you can still get feedback.


You're welcome to send me a sample, too, but I won't likely be able to give a detailed critique of a whole story.

[clarice]

4. Thanks so much...

Is there a particular author that you would recommend for examples of good dialogue?

[Orrex]

5. Heh. That also depends.

He's a favorite target of criticism, but I like Hemingway's dialogue, as well as Raymond Carver. Charles Bukowski is terrific in a gritty, skid-row kind of way, and Cormac McCarthy is very good when it comes to writing dialects.

Jane Smiley is quite good, as is Joyce Carol Oates.


I'm not fond of overtly cinematic writers like Michael Crichton or Tom Clancy, but since they tend to write with an eye toward the finished, onscreen product, their dialogue is often fairly strong.

[DavidDvorkin]

6. Honestly, I don't know if that's something you can learn

from a book or Web site or teacher.

Can you analyze what you don't like about your dialog as opposed to dialog you like in the writing of others?

[Agnosticsherbet]

7. Two articles on writing effective dialogue.

How to write effective dialogue.

10 Easy Ways to Improve Your Dialogue

[SheilaT]

8. I'm also going to suggest

reading your work out loud, using different voiced for the different people in your story. Maybe even record it and play it back. How does it sound?

One thing that's hard to learn is that in normal conversation we -- all of us -- use a lot of filler. Dialogue in any sort of fiction is much more compact.

[TeamPooka]

9. If your dialougue sucks you need to work on your characters too.

Each character needs to be a unique person.
This means they all need to talk differently.
When you write dialogue ask yourself how would "X" say this?
Make sure they each have a unique voice.

[mainer]

10. Read the greats at dialogue: Elmore Leonard stands out for me.

Of course, his characters tend to be off-kilter, which may not be the sort of people you're writing about.

The best way to learn how to write is to read the writers who excel at it.

[clarice]

11. WOW, LOTS

Of GREAT ADVICE. Thanks to all.

[Savannahmann]

12. You have conversations

You've talked to people your entire life. Sometimes you've explained to them, and vice versa. Pattern your dialog around the conversations you've had. But here is the kicker.

You have to keep the dialog consistent with the character you've created. You can't create a macho soldier who is a walking machine of destruction and have him discussing the contrasting colors that bring a room to life. It doesn't work.

Figure out what the goal of the story is, and if the dialog is intended to move the story forward, or is background to give a better feel of the characters involved.

You've made facial expressions, and seen them all your life. So when a regular woman hears something she doesn't believe, roll her eyes as she responds, include the expression.

I create the scene in my head. I play it backwards and forwards. I see if the dialog fits the people. I see if the expressions feel normal, believable, and accurate to the situation. People in the middle of a shootout aren't going to be discussing the upcoming birthday party for a friend. They may argue, they may exchange information based upon points of view, they may make a joke (graveyard humor) but they won't be swapping Honey Mustard recipes.

You've had a million conversations, from hello and how are you doing to serious conversations with points to be made. Have them in your head, both sides, three sides, how ever many there are. Create your characters first, and imagine how they would speak. Love your characters, because then you can do them the most justice in your writing.

[clarice]

13. Great idea, thanks. nt

[Brainstormy]

14. Dialogue

Clarice, there used to be a book called "Who's Talking" that I used in creative writing classes. It was wonderful and I do remember that it included passages from many great writers. Eudora Welty I especially remember. And Raymond Carver. At any rate, it seems to be out of print. A fair substitute, is Writing Dialogue by Tom Chiarella. You might check it out. It seems to me, though, that most dialogue problems come from the writer simply being too "stiff." Sometimes too coherent, too fluid. We just don't talk like we write. We stop and start, truncate sentences, wander, make grammatical mistakes, etc. Of course this depends on your character. One thing I do know that helps immensely is to get someone else to read your dialogue aloud to you. If they don't even know the context, even better. Or try recording it yourself and then listening. Your problems are likely that you're doing too good a job. Writing for the eye and not the ear. Hope this helps a little.

[clarice]

15. Thanks BStormy......

Great advice, Do you think that writing dialogue is a sticky point for most
newbie writers? Or just me !! lol

[Brainstormy]

16. It's a problem for many

but there are also those who find dialogue pretty easy and are thrown by other things, like exposition or managing time. We all have our strengths and weaknesses I guess. But writing natural-sounding dialogue that characterizes, AND advances your plot is tough.

[clarice]

17. True...

by the way, are you a published author? Any ideas for a good place/website to
submit your stories for review without getting ripped off? Do story publishers read
those sites?

[Brainstormy]

18. a few ideas

Try Critiquecircle.com. and hang around the cooler at Absolutewrite for advice. Maybe try uploading a story or two on Smashwords to see if anybody bites. And scour the web every few months for short story contests. But don't worry about getting ripped off. Honestly, it's the very least of a writer's problems. Just keep at it!

Yes, I am a published writer. Cynthia Rogers Parks. My 2009 novel is Houses on Amazon and elsewhere. Nice reviews but not much in the way of sales anymore. It did make the finals in the ABNA contest, but that was a close-but-no-cigar deal. I've written nine more books as a ghostwriter but have confidentiality contracts so, you know, I'd have to kill you. Currently working on a book about the industrialized food system. It's ruining my life. Can't eat anything anymore.

[clarice]

19. Wow !!! I know a REAL author *bends at the knee*

I'm going to try and find your book.

[Brainstormy]

20. LOL

You're easily impressed.

[marions ghost]

22. This is a non-fiction book

about the industrialized food system? I want to read it--I'm so tired of researching every thing I put into the shopping cart, but we are forced into it. Interesting topic!

[Brainstormy]

23. Just read this

Guess I'll have to check for posts in my new group more often! Yes, it's non-fiction. And boy, do I hear you about having to research your food. This was supposed to be a fairly quick project. About eight months we thought. It's been two years and we're still not there. He even hired a FSU grad student to help with the research but it's still overwhelming. The hardest part is trying to be informative without scaring people to death, but it just IS scary. When I finished the chapter on pesticides I was so depressed I was walking into walls. Website still building (I have nothing to do with building it, but have provided lots of copy.) Check it out. http://greatamericanfoodfight.net/

[marions ghost]

24. Time will make it better...

Has to be well researched, to do justice to this hot topic. Let us know when this is published--I will buy it.

Link doesnt work for me, but post it again when it gets operational.

[marions ghost]

21. I second you on that Chiarella book

--it's excellent. He also suggests listening and analyzing actual dialogue--paying attention to others speaking, as a way to tune the ear. And he also makes the point about listening to the words of dialogue you've written. Can't write dialogue well unless you hear it, to make decisions about what's working and what's not.

Totally agree

[nilesobek]

25. I noticed regional changes

in dialogue while traveling the country. In Northern Maine, for instance, its considered extremely rude to interrupt someone or talk over them in a conversation, but on the West Coast, people interrupt each other and talk over each other without offense.

I've tried to employ these regional quirks in dialogue into stories and listen to the sounds of people's voices, how they really talk and not just my perception of how they talk and articulate.

Wish you the best.