Firearm public safety provisions

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

In your opinion, which one single item would reduce the overall number of firearm assaults?

10 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	A new federal assault weapons ban
	0 (0%)
	A national universal background check program for ALL firearm transfers
	4 (40%)
	A national law raising the age for handgun possession
	1 (10%)
	An federally enacted interstate standard for any public firearm carry permit
	1 (10%)
	Write in your own idea below
	4 (40%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[HeartachesNhangovers]

1. Mandatory indeterminate-length sentences for murder, attempted murder

and conspiracy to commit murder. This means no release until the convict convinces a judge that they are completely reformed and able to support themselves financially in a legal manner.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

9. Generally, all of those charges are individual by each state.

Such a campaign to mandate those would be state by state. As a side note, I've read that judges sometimes dislike having their discretion interfered with.
In some states it is the jury that decides the sentence with the judge informing the jury of lawful range for jail time.

[HeartachesNhangovers]

16. You are correct. Usually federal prosecutors aren't involved in murder or attempted murder cases.

However, all of the poll options describe federal action requiring new federal legislation. My proposal is no different. Murder and attempted murder are serious enough matters (what could be more serious?) that the federal government should pass indeterminate sentencing requirements and prosecute every single case.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. That sounds like a federal action preempting areas of state purview.

I'm thinking that the feds will lack any nexus to state areas of law.
Certainly not a bad idea but being allowed into the sandbox with the state level justice, enforcement and legislatures will be IMO unlikely.

[Mopar151]

2. No Questions Asked gun buyback

@ most gun stores, or police stations. A small % of high-standard sporting arms would be resold to
help fund the programs

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. These are happening now usually organized locally.

From what I've read, not much effect on crime.

[Mopar151]

34. Needs to be national/universal to work.

The fragmented, inconsistent nature of our gun laws makes any meaningful good effect an accident. IMHO, the gun manufacturers ought to fund this, in favor of creating an ongoing market in the face of vast oversupply.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

38. Help me here.

A buy back program isn't a law. It's an simple option for those who have an unwanted gun to turn it in. Why would it be different if the program was managed nationally?

[Mopar151]

3. Safe Carry / Safe Storage laws for handguns

Enhanced protection for domestic violence victims, cops.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. These are also mostly matters for state and local action.

I'm not opposed at all. I'd like to see extra protection abuse victims.

[Mopar151]

35. Again, need to be national/universal.

Otherwise, the fools will think it only applies to someone else.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

39. Again, I'm not seeing how national is better. n/t

[thatdemguy]

4. I dont think any new laws will fix it.

It is already illegal to kill or assault someone, it is already illegal to use a gun in the commission of a crime. Enforce the laws on the books, and eliminate short sentences and plea agreements.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

13. I hear you.

Lots of gun charges are dropped in plea deals.

[AndyS]

5. A ban on semi auto weapons of all kinds.

Failing that a ban on extended magazines and a limit of 10 (or less) rounds per feeding device.

A ban on 'ghost guns' with a mandatory sentence of 15 years for the possession, sale or transfer of 'kits or parts' that aren't serialized. The same for modifications to full auto operation.

It is clear that ALL fatalities by gun can't be eliminated so my proposals are to limit the lethality of firearms.

To achieve this I'd like a federal ban and a mandatory surrender with compensation. 20+ years for not complying with the mandatory surrender.

[oneshooter]

11. Under current law there is only one part that requires a serial number.

That is the receiver. How many parts do you want to have this number, 5-6, or any part/every part of the machine? Will they all use the same number as the receiver? or separate numbers? How about stocks, forearms, sling swivels? will ATF have to approve any change of parts?

[AndyS]

20. What I had in mind was the receiver serialized and the "kit" being illegal but

my 6.5 Swiss carbine has all the parts, including stock and magazine, serialized with matching numbers as do the Mosin Nagant 98-30s. What's the big deal with serializing all of it? Leave it up to FFLs to keep track. Ah, now that I've mentioned FFls, close them down if they have more than one violation of the same type. Two strikes and revoke the license.

[oneshooter]

30. The reason for the repated serial numbers on the Swiss rifle is that they were hand fitted

The parts from one rifle may/or may not fit another. Having all numbered the same for each rifle was to prevent crossing parts during armory cleaning/repair.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

14. Hi. You've mentioned a semi-auto ban before.

Where do you stand on revolvers?

[AndyS]

21. I have no problem with revolvers, lever action or even pump action although I know that

the gun culture will make them almost as lethal as the semis and when they do we can burn that bridge when we come to it.

I have resolved myself to the fact that all gun deaths/injuries cannot be prevented. I would like to concentrate on lessening the carnage instead of preventing all of it which is simply not possible. Cut the death rate to, say, 5,000 a year??

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

40. Is a 6 shot .38 really that much different from a 7 shot M1911? n/t

[yagotme]

50. How about an 8-shot revolver?

That evens the 7+1 of the 1911. Have Jerry Miculek run it, and you'll swear it's a full auto.

[AndyS]

54. I never mentioned six shots and I don't think any 'sixshooter hero' would perform as well in

a stressful fight for life against people trying to take the goddam thing away from him as he does in a performance exhibition. Even if that 'professional shooter' could do so how many people are shot by the like?

[yagotme]

57. By the like of what? Revolvers?

It's not clearly broken down, but revolvers were generally the majority several years ago, but semi auto's have gained in popularity. A double action revolver has the same firing drill as a semi auto. Pull the trigger, weapon fires, pull it again, weapon fires. It's a longer heavier pull, but under stress, and familiarization with the weapon, you wouldn't notice it much. As far as Jerry M., he's not just an "exhibition shooter", he shoots various competitions, one of which is 3-gun entailing handgun, rifle, and shotgun. Competition usually involves some type of stress.

[AndyS]

53. Did I mention 6 shots? nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

55. No

[yagotme]

56. No. Disctnt did, and I was replying to him. n/t

[Ferryboat]

6. Mandatory liability insurance at purchase

2 witnesses attesting to the character of the individual.

30 day waiting period.

[melm00se]

8. Who attests to the witnesses

being able to attest to the owner being of good character? 2 more witnesses? and what about those 2 witnesses?

Additionally, that is a subjective measurement. The determination if you are eligible to own/possess a firearm must be objective. Either you are or are not.

All of these are objective:

Convicted of a felony
Fugitive from justice
Unlawful user or addicted to a controlled substance
Adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed to treatment
Illegal alien
Dishonorable discharge from the US Armed Forces
Renounced United States citizenship
Subject to an active protection order (restraining order, injunction for protection, etc.)
Convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
Under indictment or information for a felony

[AndyS]

22. I really love it when gunners go all minutia and argumentum absurdum . . .

[melm00se]

24. I really love it when anti-gunners want laws to say what they want them to say

rather than what they actually say.

You should have figured that part out from the Rittenhouse trial. The anti-gun league wanted Rittenhouse charged and convicted with a minor in possession of a firearm despite, as the defense pointed out, the elements called out in the law were not met thus leaving the judge no choice but to toss the 1 charge that might have stuck if the law were better written.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

27. Hmm... Yeah!

Laws should never include footnotes that say, "You know what I mean."

[AndyS]

29. Okay! Jump straight from argumentum absurdum to red herring!

Let's not talk about how foolish my first statement was, lets talk about something totally unrelated!! Yeah, that's the ticket!

[krispos42]

37. You need to start listening to a legal-issues podcast

MASSIVE decisions affecting all of us hinge on legal minutia. You keep dismissing it as unimportant, but it's crucial

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. Insurance against what?

Who decides if the witnesses are "good enough"?

Waiting period... So pass a BGC, wait 30 days then what? Buy 212 handguns and rifles?

[Ferryboat]

18. I think it is Australia that requires 2 character witnesses

With a extended waiting period.

As with any program there are those who will try to game the system.

I note sarcasm in your comment about buying 212 handgunsand rifles. Pretty sure that would draw attention. And dont forget that they are a good guy at time of purchase, who becomes the bad guy with a gun latter on.

The effort to control weapons has to start somewhere. Personally I think guns ownership should be limited to weapons comparable to those used when the 2nd was written.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

31. Okay seriously...

Not being sarcastic but do the witnesses need to also pass the BGC? I would hope so.

Re: 212...

Most jurisdictions that enforce a waiting period also limit the number of guns you can buy within that application period.

Re: Personally I think guns ownership should be limited to weapons comparable to those used when the 2nd was written.

Why? Today we have the internet, TV, telephone, etc. to effect our freedom of speech. These are also in use by organizations exercising freedom of the press. Our rights to freedom from unreasonable searches also apply to the these latest electronic means. I could go on but why is the RKBA alone in that regard?

What about the insurance requirement?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Ferryboat]

32. Character witness is a person of good standing in the community,

there should be disqualifications if convicted of a felony or domestic violence or what a governing board decides.

As for firearms comparable to when the 2nd amendment was written. Wishful thinking.
But that argument could be used in restricting access to military grade weapons from the civilian population.

The founding fathers could never have foreseen the carnage unleashed in the present. They seemed have placed a high value on honor, integrity and common decency when writing the text of the Declaration of Independence, Constitution or the Federalist Papers.
Those who claim we must respect the originalism of those documents seem to have a noticeable blind spot when it comes to the 2nd.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

41. Agree somewhat.

Character witnesses-

I infer that the gun shop now has to do 3 BGCs instead of 1, but okay.

...restricting access to military grade weapons...

Full-auto and burst fire weapons are already heavily restricted. I'm not seeing you goal here. The Founders actually required the militia (males 17 to 45) to own a standard infantry grade weapon.

[Ferryboat]

43. What needs to be regulated is the receiver

The trigger mechanism. No need for large capacity clips. 10 rounds per clip. Heavy penalties if modified.

Your right about militia members required to own a weapon in good working order. But if you were extremely proficient you would only get 3 or 4 shots off in a minute.

My goal? Restrictions on military grade weapons in the hands of those who lack any common sense, lack of empathy towards others. Not forgetting those who feel wronged by society or bear a grudge against classmates.

[yagotme]

44. The "receiver" and the "trigger mechanism" are 2 different things.

The receiver houses the parts of the trigger mechanism. Some receivers allow "drop-in" trigger group replacements.

[yagotme]

45. You could buy a personal cannon in 1776.

You can buy the same cannon today. It's still a cannon...

[Ferryboat]

33. About the insurance requirement

Wrongful death would be a good start, but really it is about letting the free market decide if your a good risk.

Like car insurance, too many points against you your rates go up.

Unworkable for sure, but this current gun violence is out of hand. Start somewhere like enforcement of current laws.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

42. Wrongful deaths ruled accidental could be covered but insurance companies won't be covering crimes.

Are you thinking to make the accidental insurance a mandatory requirement?

[AndyS]

23. I really love it when gunners go all minutia and argumentum absurdum . . .

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

25. Some folks (excluding myself) think closing the "gun show loophole" is minutia. n/t

[yagotme]

46. Minutia is the bread and butter of prosecutors and defense attorneys.

Get the law right the first time (proper details), and the lawyers won't have such a hard time.

[melm00se]

7. Using/possessing a firearm in the commission

of the felony carries an automatic felony charge that cannot be plea bargained away or to a lesser charge and, if convicted, carry a mandatory sentence of (?) years without the possibility of parole.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. Mandatory additional charge/sentence for violent crimes involving a gun.

Seems to me that the felony conviction would be required before being charged with the gun deal.

[melm00se]

26. let me clarify

Bob is arrested for assaulting Chuck using a gun.

Bob is charged with assault AND use of a firearm.

In the normal course of business, Bob might offer a plea of guilty to the the assault charge if the "use of a firearm" charge is dropped. The DA, looking for the quick and easy win, agrees and Bob catches a much shorter sentence than the 2 charges combined.

In my recommendation, Bob goes to trial and if convicted of the top charge (assault) and catches and additional conviction of "use of a firearm" and it's automatic additional sentence.

That simple.

Use a gun and you are gone for a long long time.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

28. I think we're agreeing here.

[yagotme]

47. Currently, I believe the main problem is with the "normal course of business".

Too many dropped weapons charges for a guilty assault plea, when a lot of the gun charges could have mandatory prison times. Person could do 15-20 years, but the plea gives him 5-10 with possibility of parole. Lots of people here want to get rid of guns, but that will never happen, so how's about we get "rid" of the killers? At least for 25+ years or so...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

49. re: "...how's about we get "rid" of the killers?"

Agreed. I don't think some sack of crap doing a drive-by or an armed robbery should get off with an assault conviction from a plea bargain. I think prosecutors look at a conviction as a win and not how long some putrid scum hairbag is removed from polite society.

I hate to sound like Clyde Shelton paraphrased but prosecutors should pursue what they know rather than pursuing what they know they can prove in court.

I think prosecutors ought to be judged on the cases they actually win rather than counting as wins the ones where they talk the opposition into forfeiting the game.

[yagotme]

51. Too many prosecutors are considering a "win", a "win".

Pleading to a lesser gets them reelection votes, but does nothing for overall public safety. Letting a thug out early for a lesser charge, then said thug goes on to commit a worse crime, well, whose fault is it? The average gun owner, who seems to be the whipping boy for the anti gunners. or the prosecutor, who didn't want to pursue a "difficult" case? I get tired of inanimate objects getting blamed for crimes. Objects are tools, be it a gun, a hammer, a nine iron, or a car. It's the person wielding the object that needs controlled, not the object itself.

[Dial H For Hero]

48. Lengthier sentences for those committing violent crimes.

[Kang Colby]

52. Repeal the NFA and GCA '68

#GunsSaveLives