Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
Sun Jun 18, 2017, 12:27 PM Jun 2017

Diatribes from the Echo Chamber

Once again, the resident gun-hater there has published a screed concerning firearms manufacturers and the supposed inability to sue them. In one of his posts, he states (in response to a reply from another DU poster concerning the sanity of suing manufacturers when their product is not malfunctioning, using auto manufacturers as an example):

"The fact is, that automobile manufacturers CAN be sued if their product plays a part in injury or death. The very fact that they can be sued, and that they are subject to regulated safety standards, keeps the auto makers honest -- unlike the right-wing gun lobby and the manufacturers of lethal weapons they represent. The absence of both litigation and product safety rules for firearms is a potentially dangerous combination for the public’s health."

(BTW, the other poster was banned for invading their sanctum sanctorum and disagreeing with their POV, and I was banned for telling the poster they would be banned for their actions. I am devastated...)

Where do I start? How about here. Yes, auto manufacturers can be sued for just about anything, whether or not their product is defective - as can most manufacturers:
http://www.businessinsurance.org/10-ridiculously-frivolous-lawsuits-against-big-businesses/

The fact that most of these lawsuits are reversed on appeal don't make them any cheaper for the business in question.

The law Billy boy is railing against was put in place to prevent those who hate guns from, in essence, using the legal system as a backdoor means of achieving their final end of gun-control for all by bankrupting companies through the filing of thousands of frivolous lawsuits. These lawsuits attempted to bypass the normal product liability laws:
http://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/what-is-product-liability.html

by holding firearms manufacturers strictly liable for their products (you can be held liable for any harm resulting from certain activities without any fault of your own):
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/strict-liability.html

Their thought process was that fighting these lawsuits would cost so much, that the manufacturers would be driven out of business. It didn't matter that all of their lawsuits had been unsuccessful, even under the doctrine of strict liability, because they knew all they needed was one win from a sympathetic jury to possibly cause a shutdown of the entire consumer firearms industry. They were in the process of attempting to do exactly that when this law was passed, negating their efforts. The final result was to prevent firearms manufacturers from being held strictly liable for use of their products. They are still liable under other circumstances:
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/products-liability-firearms-and-explosives.html

http://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/product-liability-and-guns.html

Now, I have a question for Bill and his acolytes - can you name just one lawsuit against an auto manufacturer, under circumstances where their product did not malfunction (even under strict liability rules), that ultimately was decided in favor of the plaintiff and not the manufacturer? In other words, under the same circumstances that you would have firearms manufacturers be held liable?

Suing a firearms manufacturer for a properly working product does not fall under any of the 3 normal product defect types, except possibly marketing defects. That is negated by the copious warnings present in every firearms manual I have read over the past 40 years. However, the haters have tried to create from whole cloth product defects that are unique to firearms by claiming that they are inherently defective due to the fact that they can be used to kill other people. That would be like claiming that archery equipment, knives, and clubs are all defective because they also can be used to kill. It doesn't matter that firearms have many legal, non-lethal uses - in the mind of the hater, they are dangerous beyond belief and should be taken away from the average citizen in order to protect them.

Make no mistake - if it wasn't for the second amendment, their aim would already have been achieved. Thankfully, the founders knew the danger of a government that could disarm its citizens, and took steps to prevent that from ever occurring.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Diatribes from the Echo Chamber (Original Post) tortoise1956 Jun 2017 OP
I am the guy that they banned, thank you. When I made my post I didn't realize it was one of doc03 Jun 2017 #1
I agree. tortoise1956 Jun 2017 #2
I don't know how to take this... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2017 #7
Great post and again, spot on. Alea Jun 2017 #3
Great job! Hangingon Jun 2017 #4
You need to remember that group sarisataka Jun 2017 #5
Simple reason really virginia mountainman Jun 2017 #6

doc03

(36,712 posts)
1. I am the guy that they banned, thank you. When I made my post I didn't realize it was one of
Sun Jun 18, 2017, 12:42 PM
Jun 2017

those agree with me or else groups. I couldn't care less. It's stupid ideas like that that gave us Benedict Donald.

tortoise1956

(671 posts)
2. I agree.
Sun Jun 18, 2017, 01:29 PM
Jun 2017

I wasn't poking fun at you, Doc. I agreed with everything in your post. However, as you found out, they do not allow anything in there that doesn't jibe with their cherished notions.

If it makes you feel better, I was kicked out of the sandbox too...

Alea

(706 posts)
3. Great post and again, spot on.
Sun Jun 18, 2017, 01:58 PM
Jun 2017

Also, the only Activism in that group is banning anyone that either disputes what they say or has taken a RKBA stance in this group.

Here's a good one from billh58: "I'm sure that some other "responsible" gun owners will come along and gunsplain this to me using NRA-parroted words that even a Liberal Democrat can understand. I can hardly wait."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/126212317#post3

I bet he can hardly wait, and with his finger on the ban button. The fact is no one will come along and "gunsplain" anything to him because they have already banned almost everyone that could give him any sensible argument or explanation.

In fact if you read their Group SOP, then go down and read every reply to every OP you will see that no one in that group follows their own SOP. Excluding original post, every reply that follows is just bashing gun owners. Going strictly by their SOP, they all should be banned from their own group, including the admins, for the same violations they supposedly use to put each of the now 87 members on their current ban list. They don't do anything but whine and complain, don't follow their own Group SOP, and basically use the ban button as a way of getting even with people that support RKBA on DU.

sarisataka

(21,002 posts)
5. You need to remember that group
Sun Jun 18, 2017, 03:35 PM
Jun 2017

Beating the "true Democrat" drum was very willing two follow the lead of a gun control group that endorsed a republican for the Senate.

It apparently was not a sop violation when a host supported Republicans in the GE...

"Don't vote party, vote gun violence. Even if it is for only one or two election cycles, if the NRA's mythological omnipotence can be defeated and shown for being a mile deep and an inch wide it is worth it."

virginia mountainman

(5,046 posts)
6. Simple reason really
Mon Jun 19, 2017, 10:07 AM
Jun 2017

When you can't defend your ideas, you have to lock out any opposing thought. Lest people learn that you're a snake oil salesman...

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Diatribes from the Echo C...