Black gun owners worried by acquittal in Castile shooting

[sarisataka]

Black gun owners worried by acquittal in Castile shooting

Gerry Martin isn't sure he will ever tell a police officer during a traffic stop that he has a concealed-weapon permit — and possibly a weapon — on him.

The acquittal of a Minnesota officer in the death of a licensed gun owner who volunteered that he had a gun seconds before being fatally shot during a traffic stop adds to the worries of African-American gun owners about how they are treated by police and society.

Acknowledging that they have a weapon, they said, can open them up to violence from police, who can then claim they feared for their lives simply because of the presence of a gun, even a legal one.

"As soon as you say, 'I'm a concealed carry holder. This is my license,' they automatically are reaching for their gun thinking you're going to draw your gun on them, once again not realizing you're a good guy," said Martin, who lives in Glenside, Pennsylvania.

http://kstp.com/national/another-police-shooting-acquittal-worries-black-gun-owners/4516413/?cat=162

I have only talked with white carriers so far but they express the same concern, that legally carrying is now a reason for police to shoot.Everyone also has said they disagree with the verdict and cannot understand how the jury acquitted.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. What I don't get (among other things) is why,

if someone was intending on shooting a cop, he would first *tell* the cop that he had a permit and a gun. If you're going to shoot somebody wouldn't you NOT tell them you had a gun?

[sarisataka]

2. That is an excellent point

that I do not believe was emphasized at trial. To me it is a strong indication of cooperation, not danger.

Under Minnesota law, a person is not required to inform an officer they are carrying unless specifically asked. Mr. Castile went an extra step and volunteered the information.

[doc03]

3. The cop knows you have a CCW permit as soon as he runs your plates. A friend was

warned because he didn't tell the officer when stopped for a traffic violation that he had a CCW permit.

[sarisataka]

4. If the vehicle is registered to you,

what I drive most often is registered in my wife's name. I keep my DL, insurance card and CCW right next to each other and hand all three to an officer

[doc03]

5. True. I was stopped a couple weeks ago for speed. I stopped my car ran the window down and

put both hands on the wheel. I told the office I had a CCW permit but didn't have a weapon with me, he said thanks for letting me know.
Then he proceeded in giving me a $139 ticket.

[pablo_marmol]

12. Ding ding ding!

I live in a corrupt-issue state, but to expound on your point I'd keep both hands on the upper portion of the steering wheel until the officer initiated dialog on the permit -- then followed all instructions to the letter.

Not saying that the cop's action was justified, but if Castile had used a little sense he'd be alive today.

[tortoise1956]

7. Depends on the state

Here in Nevada, you have a duty to produce your CCW permit if you are carrying a weapon and teh officer asks you for it. You are not required to volunteer the information.

Having said that, if I ever do get pulled over while carrying, I will hand the LEO my permit with the license and insurance info, and inform him/her that a) I have a weapon in the car and b) where it is, all while keeping my hands on teh steering wheel (at 10 and 2, of course!)

[Hangingon]

8. TEXAS requires that I present my CHL with my TDL if stopped

[PdxSean]

6. One would be a damned fool these days to tell a cop you have a weapon.

Last edited Sat Jun 17, 2017, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Castille isn't the first case of cops going ape shit after a black person advises them of a concealed weapon. Years ago when I got my conceal carry permit in Oregon, the white "safety trainer" told people they should advise cops as a "courtesy" to the officer. I didn't bother telling him he lived on a different planet than black people in the U.S.

When people ask me about dealing with killer cops, I give them the same mantra that cops use: I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Castile is dead because he gave the officer a courtesy. I've decided to live.

[pablo_marmol]

9. Perhaps someone can educate me here........

The most critical point relating to this case revolves around the clarity of instructions that Castile received from the cop. It's hard for me to believe that a cop -- informed by a driver that he was armed -- would not instruct the driver to keep his hands on the drivers wheel......or otherwise in plain sight. I recall reading that the officer made a request of this sort.

This said, if the driver failed to follow the instruction the cop would be justified in *presenting* his sidearm while barking the instruction again. From recollection of the video, it's unclear to me what the officer was seeing -- so I feel I need to suspend judgement.

Like the Sandy Hook tragedy*, the failure of the media to hone in on the most salient details of this story is migraine-inducing.

* Re. Sandy Hook: I don't recall any media outlet pointing out that Lanza's mother could have prevented the tragedy by keeping the firearms locked away, with her son unaware of the safe combination. Same for commentary on DU and other social media. Insanity.

[pablo_marmol]

10. Couple of links here:

The first is a description of a traffic stop by a Black man while carrying. The second is an instruction vid featuring a woman carrying.

https://www.facebook.com/stevenhildrethjr/posts/1010278339022221:0

[ileus]

11. If you're not required to don't...

For myself I don't want to give any reason to bog me down in a traffic stop or check.