Busnesses that go gun free will be liable for safety of CCW holders

[Press Virginia]

Present law authorizes persons in control of property to post a notice that prohibits firearms on the premises. This bill imposes a duty of care on any person who posts their property to prohibit firearms whereby such person will be responsible for the safety of any handgun carry permit holder while the permit holder is on the posted premises and traversing any area to and from the premises and the location where the permit holder’s firearm is stored. The duty of care created by this bill will extend to the conduct of other invitees, trespassers, employees of the person or entity, vicious animals, wild animals, and defensible man-made and natural hazards.


http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1736&ga=109I

[scscholar]

1. And will they be liable if the NRA decides to shoot us?

Well?

[Press Virginia]

2. When has the NRA shot anyone?

[MariaThinks]

51. when have businesses who don't allow guns shot anyone?

[DonP]

52. You want a "gun free zone", just take responsibility for it

If bars can be held responsible for over serving someone that leaves and causes an accident. (dram shop laws)

Then a business that chooses to deny the right to carry where it's legal, can be held at least partially responsible for anything that happens on their property.

After all, a lot of folks want to hold gun makers responsible for 3rd party actions. This is the same thing.

[CreekDog]

53. A bar faces no liability for not serving alcohol

to suggest that keeping guns out of a business is the same liability that a bar faces for serving a drunk patron who later harms others or themselves later is about the stupidest thing ever posted on DU.

and you should stop it.

[DonP]

57. Derp! Nobody said they did

But "Stupid" coming from you is really funny, considering your pathetic track record. Not even worth altering on.

I said "bars are held responsible for over serving".

But you control minded folks are all desperate to try and hold gun manufacturers responsible for 3rd party acts by repealing the PLCAA. Tennessee is holding the business owner responsible in the same way for 3rd party acts. If they forbid concealed, carry they just assume the responsibility for your safety.

Probably just another rider to their insurance policies. Aren't all the control minded folks big on insurance too?

Lol, pathetic gun control strikes again and loses.

22 years and counting since the last Federal gun control law was passed, still waiting for that tipping point.

In the meantime violent crime continues to fall to record low rates.

You have a swell day.

[CreekDog]

79. YOU just said it

You made the ridiculous comparison now own it.

And now everyone who sees it is going to think you're gun trolling and it's going to ruin your credibility with them from now on.

[DonP]

81. Gee, now I'll toss and turn all night worrying about you and the other control "fans" opinion of me

That's pretty much the total extent of gun control activism Harsh words online and little else.

In the meantime, you just have a really swell week. I have 2 new concealed carry classes starting this week to get ready for. You'll be happy to know one is all Pink Pistol members. That will bring the total of carriers I've trained and certified so far to over 100.

You see, you control fans only "live" online. We do things in the real world. That's what makes it and its "members" pathetic as a "movement".

[CreekDog]

82. Why did you deny making the comparison to a bar serving alcohol

Right after you made it?

Problem with honesty and taking responsibility for your words?

God help us if you own lots of weapons.

[DonP]

83. I didn't; now try reading it again slowly, feel free to move your lips if it helps

I said;

"If bars can be held responsible for over serving someone that leaves and causes an accident. (dram shop laws)

Then a business that chooses to deny the right to carry where it's legal, can be held at least partially responsible for anything that happens on their property.

After all, a lot of folks want to hold gun makers responsible for 3rd party actions. This is the same thing."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=196782

Somehow, you came up with; "A bar faces no liability for not serving alcohol". Something no one said. Oh, and it's "stupid" and I should be ashamed, blah, blah etc., without elaborating on why, not that you could anyway.

If all they do is paste a frickin' sign on a window, magically declaring it is a gun free zone and absolving them of any responsibility, then forbid licensed people from carrying, they should be held at least partially liable for their safety. Seems a lot of voters in Tennessee feel the same way and don't give a crap what anyone else thinks.

Locations with real security, courthouses, airports etc. have screening with metal detectors, x-rays, not just good wishes and failed hopes.

But feel free to send a check to gun control this morning and tell them that you want that damn stupid Tennessee law reversed. We'll wait here and watch.

No wonder gun control is such a train wreck with logic and insight like this involved.

[CreekDog]

87. You made the comparison, OWN IT

stop being dishonest about something you posted upthread. you said it, everyone can see it.

it's over. it's a bankrupt argument and you're running away from it like it's chasing you, so weak are your convictions.

[DonP]

88. Congratulations, you get the last word

I'm heading to the range today with a bunch of other vets, my cop and fireman friends and family and my WW I and WW II rifle collection to celebrate the 4th.

That's way more important than bothering with your repetitive whining and impotent demands.

No wonder gun control continues to be such a loser.

[Eleanors38]

84. Ah, Creekdog. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

You remind me of the great comedic actor Redd Foxx, when he was moved to a would-be fist fight: Arms & fists shooting up, down, sideways. But the danger was greatest to the guy sitting ten feet behind! But it is only a distant reminder.

[MariaThinks]

70. great point. Can you imagine suing a bar FOR NOT serving alcohol?

it's now a parallel universe for sure.

[MariaThinks]

69. Why don't gun owners and gun sellers take responsibility for the destruction

caused by guns?

[DonP]

74. Gun sellers?

Same reason you can't sue Ford for being hit by a drunk driver or sue the Hotpoint people if you leave the stove on and burn your house down.

Manufacturers are not held responsible for 3rd party actions with legal products.

Gun owners are already held responsible for any criminal actions they take.

[Press Virginia]

75. Why should people who committed no crime be

responsible?

[Press Virginia]

55. When did anyone claim they did?

[DonP]

14. Better worry about an attack by the tooth fairy as well.

I heard she doesn't much like ineffective gun control either.

[enough]

3. Must be nice.

Interesting how the logic is developing that having a gun gives you access to 100 percent security, and other people are responsible for it.

[Press Virginia]

10. But they won't have a gun. The establishment forbids them

[DrDan]

4. Sad some have to go through life in such fear

[Press Virginia]

5. Yes. It is sad that people are so afraid of guns

[DrDan]

7. Not guns - gunners

[Press Virginia]

8. They're not afraid of guns

[DrDan]

11. Afraid of being away from one

[Press Virginia]

12. While some people are afraid of the thought of being near one

[DrDan]

13. Being near the fearful gunner

[Press Virginia]

15. Because CCW carriers have an extensive record of mass shootings, right?

[DrDan]

16. shootings in general, to include mass shootings

[Press Virginia]

17. Really? When has a CCW holder committed a mass shooting?

[DrDan]

18. "Shootings in general"

[Press Virginia]

19. "To include mass shootings"

so when was a CCW holder responsible for a mass shooting?

[DrDan]

20. Michael McLendon March 2009

[Press Virginia]

21. 1. 7 years ago?

[DrDan]

22. This is getting ridiculous - good bye

[DonP]

25. 1 example from 7 years ago? With claims of over 300 mass shootings every year?

That's pretty thin gruel.

[Press Virginia]

27. And it's a guy who killed his family members

hardly the public rampage at the local grocery store

[DonP]

29. I guess that South Carolina club shooting last week end was also a "mass shooting"

3 people injured before a legal CC carrier took out the shooter.

But it's a Catch 22, since he stopped the shootings before he could shoot more people.

[Press Virginia]

30. you know defensive uses never ever happen

never ever ever has a person with a CCW stopped a crime.

[DrDan]

33. They don't count?????

Wow

[Press Virginia]

35. Not if you're using as your basis to fear CCW carriers in public

[DrDan]

37. Ridiculous

[DrDan]

48. Jason Hagon Dej-Odoua 7/1/16

Oh yeah - his 3 kids don't count - I forgot your rules

[Press Virginia]

56. Another family related shooting. I'd say you have more to fear

from your family than the random gun owner

[DrDan]

58. Another mass shooting

[Press Virginia]

59. Not in a public place. You know, where you'd be

[DrDan]

61. Another mass murder - 3 children - 3!!!

[sarisataka]

62. No, it was 4

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/children-fatally-stabbed-memphis-mother-custody-40287581

or do they not count?

[DrDan]

65. Nice diversion

[sarisataka]

66. So no,

They don't. #onlygundeathsmatter

I am willing to bet you also oppose Project Childsafe...

[DrDan]

67. Why would you make that last statement

I have made no personal insults - why do feel the need

[sarisataka]

68. No insult

Simple observation based on similar posters.

Please correct me if I am wrong

[sarisataka]

94. Your silence

has spoke volumes

[Press Virginia]

63. Tragic but hardly a basis for your fear

[DrDan]

64. I'm not the one who is afraid to venture out without a weapon

Talk about fear

[Press Virginia]

71. You're afraid of people who carry guns you can't see

even though they pose no threat to you

[DrDan]

72. No threat to those 3 children mowed down in Las Vegas?

[Press Virginia]

73. How does their death pose a threat to you

[DrDan]

76. Another mass murder -far too frequent

[Press Virginia]

77. had the been bludgeoned would you care? Would you fear heavy objects?

your fear what is no threat to you

[DrDan]

78. How many times have you used your weapon defensively?

[Press Virginia]

80. Once

[DrDan]

31. Pedro Vargas 2013

Not sure what your point is.

i have no idea what your comment means regarding 300 mass shootings per year. What are you talking about?

[DonP]

32. C'mon gun control claims at least that many every year.

And in 7 years you come up with what now, 2 concealed carriers so far out of at least 2,200 according the Everytown for Gun Control?

It just doesn't look like legal concealed carriers are really a problem to anyone with basic math skills.

http://www.shootingtracker.com/

But, it's still a free country and you're entitled to your gun control obsession, ineffective and pathetic as it seems to be.

After all it's not like it costs anything to be a gun control fan anyway. No dues, no vacation time used, no travel to protest anywhere, probably can't even find any gun control T-shirts for sale.

[DrDan]

34. Thank you - and gunners are allowed their John Wayne

saving the school marm fantasies

[Press Virginia]

36. They're more likely to stop a crime than shoot up the store you're in

your fear of guns isn't rational

[DrDan]

38. Not guns - gunners

[Press Virginia]

39. so you have an irrational fear of people

[DrDan]

40. No - gunners - and according to the statistics, not irrational

[Press Virginia]

41. 100 million gun owners 16,000 murders

I can see why you'd fear them

[DrDan]

42. 100m full-of-fear gun owners . . .

[Press Virginia]

44. the stats don't support your fear of "gunners"

[Eleanors38]

89. Gosh, Doc, you're afraid of a third of the country? Physician, heal thyself.

[DrDan]

91. Yet I am not the one who needs a gun to get through life

[beevul]

92. No, but you sure seem to claim the need to control others to get through your own.

I don't think that makes you any better than someone who " needs a gun to get through life", though civility prevents me from specifying how much less better I mean.

[Eleanors38]

93. I don't need house insurance to get through life. Got it anyway.

[gejohnston]

43. actually, it is

if you are using accurate statistics. You are afraid of a demographic that is statistically more law abiding and more responsible with firearms than the police. On the other hand, it is a rational fear if you happen to be in the home invasion business or just like to beat people's head in, but not for the average peaceful person. You are more likely to be murdered by an ISIS or AQ operative or any other rapid mass murderer than a CCW holder. Even that is pretty rare. That makes it irrational.
On the other hand, if you enter the "triangle of stupid", like stiff your pot dealer or your bookie, then that is another problem.

[DonP]

47. Well, violent criminals are big supporters of gun control too

OSHA wouldn't certify citizens with guns as an "Occupational Hazard" for them, so they can't claim Workman's Comp benefits if shot while committing a crime.

So it just makes sense that they are on the same side as other gun control fans.

But I love how the control folks love to cite the CDC numbers of shootings and suicides and ignore the same report's numbers of DGUs.

[sarisataka]

49. Don't overlook gun traffickers

Quite a few of this week's celebrated California gun control bills and laws were first introduced by Brady Campaign Gun Violence Prevention Honor Roll member Leland Yee.

Unfortunately the former Senator was unable to attend Governor Brown's signing as Mr Yee is currently residing in the Federal Correctional Institution, Fort Worth. While making sure California citizens didn't have the dangerous "assault rifles", the Senator was also selling fully automatic weapons and shoulder fired missles to an undercover FBI agent. In addition he was taking bribes from organized crime.

Sadly I have not seen him receive credit for originally proposing these gun controls. Just vague reference to a "Senator who has since resigned"

[DonP]

50. Oooh, ooh ... and the pedophile Mayors Against Illegal Guns

Not to mention so many others that went up the river for assorted fraud, child porn and bribery charges or couldn't get re-elected for their gun control stance that Bloomie had to quietly let the whole group fade away.

As for Yee ... well, to be fair, it is hard to get that orange jump suit color properly lit in signing ceremony photographs.

"Resigned" ... that's really cute.

[Eleanors38]

90. I believe he was convicted on anti-trust violations...

[safeinOhio]

6. Seems strange to me as

the ones most against weapon free zones, vocally, are the NRA, Trump and many Republican congress people.

Strange as the NRA doesn't allow personal weapon for those attending their conventions. Trump does not allow any weapons at his rallies and Congress does not allow weapons for visitor.

Don't they want to be safe?

[Press Virginia]

9. High security venues vs a gun free zone with little security

there might be a difference

[Straw Man]

45. Corrections(s).

Strange as the NRA doesn't allow personal weapon for those attending their conventions. Trump does not allow any weapons at his rallies and Congress does not allow weapons for visitor.

You have been misinformed. The NRA's statement on legal carry at the Lousiville convention is below:

During the 2016 NRA Annual Meetings & Exhibits, lawfully carried firearms will be permitted in the Kentucky Exposition Center (KEC), with the proper license in accordance with Kentucky law. Firearms and knives will be prohibited in any areas temporarily under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Secret Service. When carrying your firearm, remember to follow all federal, state and local laws.

Please note that under Kentucky law, concealed firearms are prohibited in areas primarily devoted to dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, and loaded firearms are prohibited in any room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink. Alcoholic beverages will be served at some events at the Kentucky International Convention Center (KICC), in certain areas of the KFC Yum! Center, and in some smaller venues.

--http://www.wideopenspaces.com/nra-will-allow-concealed-guns-at-annual-meetings-in-louisville-ky/

More information here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/nraban.asp

As the presumptive Republican nominee for President, Trump is currently under the security umbrella of the Secret Service. They would certainly not allow weapons at the events, so his beliefs are moot. I suspect he would concur.

[DonP]

60. Awwww, you're harshing one of their favorite Memes with pesky facts

The one where the NRA are the hypocrites, instead of gun controllers.

Like the one where "the CDC can't do research", then they start quoting CDC numbers.

[virginia mountainman]

86. ROFLMAO!!!!

Like the one where "the CDC can't do research", then they start quoting CDC numbers.

Hammer, hit nail, knocked it THRU the board...

[msongs]

23. not any more than they are for any other person in that business. well look its Tennesee nt

[Press Virginia]

24. Other patrons aren't covered to and from the location where the gun is stored

[Politicalboi]

26. Why don't they just bring their mommies with them

Poor little babies. If they fall, does that count? Their gun may have protected them from the floor. Are these "real" men? What a bunch of pansies. I need my gun like a little boy who's playing cowboy and refuses to put his guns away. Sick people for sure.

[Press Virginia]

28. Yeaaaah because only males are CCW holders

[Straw Man]

46. Beg your pardon?

Are these "real" men? What a bunch of pansies.

Gender stereotyping and anti-gay slurs? Très classy ...

[Eleanors38]

85. Same old slurs in the New DU. Such nostalgia.

[virginia mountainman]

54. And some still say "turning point"

When they don't realize just how weak the gun control movement really is. It is laws like this that expose just how weak they truly are. Take away one man's money (Bloomberg) and see how quick they collapse.

O, and if you refuse my ability to defend myself, by posting silly signs, it is only fair that YOU, be held responsible for my safety.

July 2, 2016, will be remembered as the day the "no guns allowed" signs in most privately owned businesses went down in Tennessee.