Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumHow would you react if.... you saw men with guns.....?
I'm formulating ideas for an article on Long Gun Open Carry, but I wanted to start a discussion on another topic.
Here's the scenario...
You are in a small city of about 10 to 20 thousand people.
The type of city with a small, funky downtown area of bars and pizza places, the 'real stores' being out on the 'strip' near the highway.
Colleges, college students, transients, artists and other assorted characters out whenever the weather is warm.
So you notice a group of mostly middle age men, walking around a certain block or two of the city.
They are not usually there, they do not enter stores, they do not seem to have a typical 'Main Street' purpose.
So you stop in to the deli you often go to, and overhear a conversation.
"Oh those guys, yeah, they are volunteering in front of the recruiting station since last week's attacks on the military base."
"Cops? No they are not cops. Ex-cops, maybe. Ex-military.... civilians.... just helping out..."
You go back out, and head for your car. Now you notice the hip-level bulges of concealed handguns (not rifles), that they occasionally speak on radios, and are, in fact, mostly in front of the recruiting station.
As you get in your car (or onto the bus) you see a soldier shaking hands with one of the men and wave at the others.
What, at that moment, and in the coming days, do you do?
(Please do not ask me to identify the location in the story.)
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Puha Ekapi
(594 posts)Not real concerned about concealed carriers, I encounter them all the time (whether I know they are carrying or not....mostly not) when I am off-rez here in my state. Never been a problem.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)If my activities take my past them, I will say a polite hello, maybe even stop to inquire about them and their purpose.
ret5hd
(21,320 posts)"On a scale of one to ten, with ten being worse, how much does it hurt to be an ignorant jackass?"
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Seriously...
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Why?
sarisataka
(21,004 posts)While grabbing as much merchandise as I can hold. I might even have to run into a couple of other stores to warn employees- and pick up a couple of other items.
Puha Ekapi
(594 posts)..."like" button here.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)There's plenty of shit to get worked up about, people going about their business carrying guns is not one of them.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Even as a chairborne USAF, I know that they are clear and easy targets for attackers who would be bright enough to plan for that. Beyond that, I might say hi to them. Charlie Hedbo had a uniformed Paris cop as "security" at the front door. I would see the same flaw here.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)After putting his arms/hands up to protect himself?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)from what I understand, the PPD isn't armed like the national police.
braddy
(3,585 posts)gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and keeping a low profile. Out of sight, out of mind. If you are obvious, terrorists would add that into planning. On the other hand, they would be in a better than a single unarmed policeman.
braddy
(3,585 posts)to the public. I doubt these guys are offering permanent and plainclothes protection to military people, this kind of public action helps push the military and politicians to start allowing the soldiers to defend themselves.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)by the AK47s. Here's one on duty--
https://www.news-journal.com/news/2015/jul/21/local-men-voluntarily-guard-longview-military-recr/
This is the kind of yahoo we're talking about--
LANCASTER, Ohio — An armed civilian accidentally fired a shot from an AR-15 rifle into the pavement outside a military recruiting center in Ohio on Thursday but no one was hurt, police said.
The incident occurred days after armed citizens started showing up at military recruiting centers around the country to act as guards following last week's killing of four Marines and a sailor in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/07/23/shot-fired-accidentally--ohio-military-recruiting-station/30584267/
braddy
(3,585 posts)targets that fight back.
armed targets, and the terrorists prefer the unarmed.
The willingness of Americans to help is helping to prod the military into action.
"The general tapped to be the next Army chief of staff said Tuesday that if legal issues could be resolved, he believes it would be appropriate, in some cases, to arm soldiers at recruiting stations."
"Four Marines and a sailor were killed Thursday in Chattanooga, Tennessee, by a gunman who authorities identified as Kuwait-born Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24.
Abdulazeez unleashed a barrage of fire at a recruiting center in Chattanooga, then drove several miles away to a Navy and Marine reserve center, where he shot and killed the Marines and wounded the sailor, who later died. Abdulazeez was shot to death by police>
theatre goon
(87 posts)The entire situation, as someone once said, "neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Why should I be concerned? Looks like everybody is acting well within the law, at least in my state. Other states, that might be a whole other story...
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Last edited Tue May 10, 2016, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)
Avoiding any chance of being caught in the cross fire if they should meet up with whomever they expected.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Then talk about guns.
stone space
(6,498 posts)The volunteers were a group of citizens who are guarding recruiting centers across the country. Their goal is to not stop guarding the recruiting centers until members of the military at recruiting centers were able to arm themselves for protection.
According to a Lancaster police report, the shooting occurred between 11:30 a.m. and 12:01 p.m. outside the recruiting office, 1534 River Valley Circle.
"I was out here and was talking to a guy who wanted to look at my AR-15," said Reed in an interview with the Eagle-Gazette. "I was trying to clear the weapon and hand it over to him when it went off. I thought it was empty and must have missed it."
Reed said he had the gun pointed down at the time and the bullet hit the pavement.
http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com/story/news/local/2015/07/23/armed-volunteer-fires-shot/30574117/
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)...handguns only.
No show-and-tell.
doc03
(36,713 posts)dim wits trying to intimidate people to make themselves feel tough. You asked.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Go on about my business. 
I'm not sure I even know anybody, personally, that would do any different.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)...handguns only.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Even eat and PAY for my meals.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)as quickly as possible.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)and go about my business. Whatever their intentions. They have weapons, are probably of the over-confident variety of people that always assumes they know exactly what a gun will do, the kind of people who have guns fall out of their pants, or go off when they are cleaning them, or "playfully" point it at others, taunting them that it "can't possibly go off". They probably have friends who likewise have guns, and maybe they are having personal grievances against some of them, maybe one of them will show up, maybe someone is sleeping with someone else's spouse and things are about to come to a head.
There are all sorts of complicated situations that are never improved with the presence of weapons, so I'd give them a wide berth, go about my business and come back when they've gone.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)..of M - F, 8 am - 4 pm, rotated not to have anyone there for more than 2 or 3 days/week.
After one month, nothing else happened in the news, so they 'stood down.'
No negative incidents reported, military and local police were very positive in their appreciation.
My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)that time, but the premise that there are incorruptible gun owners who will always be of sound reasoning and in control is not one I subscribe to.
Even cops, retired cops, military men, and the best trained in firearms use have drug and alcohol issues, marital problems, bankruptcy, custody battles, and the every day erosion of well-being. Exhibits A and B.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/pennsylvania_turnpike_killing.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/eulalio-tordil-maryland-shooting-suspect-shows-no-remorse-police-say/
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I would continue to wherever I was headed ... and in coming days, avoid that area.
Squinch
(52,778 posts)Then watch the newspapers to see which one of them eventually shot his own ass.
ETA: I'd also review in my mind what would happen if a handful of armed black men in hoodies came to help them out. Or perhaps a handful of guys in turbans with guns.
ileus
(15,396 posts)If it's your typical OCer's than there's nothing to worry about.
Like any situation observe the individuals, do a threat assessment and move on. Something you should be doing on a regular basis anyway...
procon
(15,805 posts)First, why would I give credence to any casual conversation I might overhear in a store? They are strangers to me, and their idle chatter is no more valid than any other gossip or hearsay as I might encounter throughout the day.
If I see a crowd of armed men showing off around a public venue, my impression is that they're about to commit a violent crime, I'd call 911 and let the cops decide what to do. if I see a soldier come out and shake hands, I would think his bravado was misplaced even if he might be attempting defuse the armed mob and calm them down before they start shooting.
Afterward, I would think those armed men were incredibly immature, thoughtless and irresponsible and they had no regard for other people or public safety. I'd probably light up social media with rants about some harebrained jerks who were grandstanding with guns and getting off on scaring people. Their foolish showboating might appear to be nothing more than egotistical performance art, but it only terrorizes the customers who came to shop but instead found an armed gang of vigilantes blocking the sidewalk.
To anyone who see them, they are just a bunch of armed strangers whose motives, background, training and skillset, is unknown, why would anyone trust them? If a bad guy approached them, what are they going to to? Do they all start shooting at once, firing into shoppers, the crowded parking lot and the busy street beyond, and shooting up the stores across the street? Who knows!
No, the whole premise is a disaster waiting to happen. You portray the gun exhibitionists as cops, as if the public would know that, or that excuses their reckless behavior, but cops have done some spectacularly ugly and stupid things under the cover of authority so there is no saving grace in that modifier. They demonstrated no regard for the peace of mind or safety of people who might have gotten in the way if their vanity gun project went awry.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)"Cops? No they are not cops. Ex-cops, maybe. Ex-military.... civilians.... just helping out..."
The only information you have at that moment is hearsay.
procon
(15,805 posts)I see what you're trying to do, but it's weak sauce, yeah?
How does an unsuspecting shopper know whether an armed man was once a cop, is a cop, maybe a cop wannabe, or some unfortunate ex-military person in the grips of an acute mental health crisis, from some common thug up to no good?
How would the casual observer recognize than a strange man with a gun is "just helping out"? How can anyone risk making such a foolish mistake in judgement that quite literally puts their well being in the hands of some nameless gunman with an unknown agenda?
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Make of the situation what you will.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)And also try see if they know specifics.
That will very likely what, if anything, I do in the future.