Gun maker wants industry to give 'smart guns' a shot

[SecularMotion]

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Jonathan Mossberg is among a small number of pioneers looking to build a safer gun. But unlike many others, he was in the gun business when he started down that path.

His family is renowned for its premier line of shotguns treasured by law enforcement, hunters and the military. Mossberg already has spent more than a decade working to develop — and someday bring to the market — a firearm that the wrong person cannot fire. It is intended to work without fail in the hands of its owner in a life-or-death situation.

"We're gun people, so we know when you pick up a gun you want to shoot it," Mossberg said. "You don't want to swipe your finger. You don't want to talk to it. In an emergency situation, you want to pick it up and use it."

Mossberg's iGun Technology Corp., based in Daytona Beach, Florida, relies on a simple piece of jewelry — a ring — that "talks" to a circuit board imbedded in a firearm to let it know the user is authorized. The ring must be within centimeters of the gun for the gun to fire.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/05/gun_maker_wants_industry_to_gi.html

[Duckhunter935]

1. Fine

I do not think you will find any member here that would be against them building it and selling it. More options are always better. Just no mandates.

Care to comment or discuss it?

[hack89]

2. No problem as long as there are no mandates. nt

[flamin lib]

3. This is a good product and woks instantly and as reliably as the same shotgun without

the electronics.

[Straw Man]

4. Unless ...

This is a good product and woks instantly and as reliably as the same shotgun without

the electronics.

... you left the ring on the bathroom sink after you washed your hands. Or the battery is dead.

[flamin lib]

5. Your argument is sooooooooo tedious.

I have a $35000 pickup truck that won't start without a battery. The difference between my truck and the Mossberg is that the Mossberg gives audible and visual warning when the battery reaches 30% charge. That's about 1000 rounds.

Leaving the ring is tantamount to leaving the gun unloaded.

When are you going to think for yourself and stop regurgitating the propaganda the gun makers feed you?

[friendly_iconoclast]

6. Tedious it may very well be, but you haven't actually refuted it

As for another thing- upthread, you stated unequivocally that...

This is a good product and wo(r)ks instantly and as reliably as the same shotgun without the electronics

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172191313#post3


...while the very article states that this shotgun is not yet in production. Do you own one, and/or
have you had the chance to fire one enough times to ascertain its reliability?

If not, then you yourself are the one "regurgitating the propaganda the gun makers (fed) you"

[beevul]

8. Thats going to leave a mark.

...while the very article states that this shotgun is not yet in production. Do you own one, and/or
have you had the chance to fire one enough times to ascertain its reliability?

If not, then you yourself are the one "regurgitating the propaganda the gun makers (fed) you"

Ouch!

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. Barring further explanation, I say that endorsement of the shotgun is a) phony, or...

Last edited Wed May 4, 2016, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

... b)given in exchange for a free "Electro-Mossberg"

If I'm wrong, I will self-correct, apologize profusely and delete this post- and I frankly don't
expect I'll have to....

[Straw Man]

9. Yes, facts are so tedious, aren't they?

I have a $35000 pickup truck that won't start without a battery. The difference between my truck and the Mossberg is that the Mossberg gives audible and visual warning when the battery reaches 30% charge. That's about 1000 rounds.

Your car battery recharges itself continually. The Mossberg? Nope.

Your truck battery gives you feedback in terms of slow starting. You probably drive it every day, or at least several times a week, and would be aware of the battery's condition. Will you be around to hear and see your smart gun's battery warning before it fades away to nothing? A shotgun that is kept for home defense might be used rarely (for practice) if at all. A "dumb gun" could sit for years and still be in perfect working order. A "smart gun"? Nope.

Leaving the ring is tantamount to leaving the gun unloaded.

Not at all. See previous point: The gun itself might be left loaded and secured for years. It should still be there and functional if and when it is needed. How many times will that ring go on and off the user's finger in that span of time? How many chances to lose or forget it will there be?

When are you going to think for yourself and stop regurgitating the propaganda the gun makers feed you?

When are you going to make some cogent arguments? Do you think the gun makers care? They would jump at the chance to sell gun owners some mandated high-tech doo-dad. What exactly is is that you think Mossberg sells? Lawn mowers?

[Duckhunter935]

16. Do you see and hear those warnings

When it is properly secured in a safe for months at a time until use?

[ileus]

13. Or your wife needs it...

[Duckhunter935]

15. The battery dies

Or the circuit board fails, or a chip fails, or the ring and board communication fails, or........

[Eleanors38]

10. Fine with me. If it works, folks will scarf 'em up. nt

[Hangingon]

12. I bet some figures out how to hack it.

Hate to be standing there with my ring and a fresh battery when the bad guy shoots me.

[Eleanors38]

17. Forgive my vacuum tube tech, but I remember the old "pulse" notion...

That would occur in a nuke blast, one which would play havoc with electronics in the region. There was talk about inducing the same thing (sans blast) as a sloppy way to stop the fleeing bank robber or some such. Sounded cheap.

[Hangingon]

19. Cheap does not come into it.

Cost of ammo going up is great. Look at cost of .22. These folks would agree to dedicated satellites and fleets of drones. If you can't outlaw guns run the price out of sight.

[Eleanors38]

20. Prohibition WILL go unchecked if not opposed...

In this instance, the anti-gun outlook persists because it is entrenched within the national "leadership" of the Democratic Party, and within MSM. Both are numb, punch drunk and have ringing ears, but institutionalization keeps the outlook alive. All other prohi movements developed Public resistance and rode a self-created wave of popular resistance to prohibition. Currently, the pro-2A forces rely (with great effectiveness) on the courts and working legislatures and the Congress. But for all this success it has not fully developed a public face for the gun-owning community, thereby allowing the anti-2A groups to do the job for it. And we know the results of that.

[flamin lib]

22. Eh? Looks like word salad to me. nt

[Eleanors38]

24. Ears wide shut, eh?

[DonP]

25. What do you expect from somebody that thinks the AR15 is a military issue weapon?

[Duckhunter935]

26. I know, isn't that the person

That is supposed to have extensive weapons knowledge? Sure seems to not be true.

[DonP]

32. Yup, The "World's Foremost Authority" in Castle Bansalot - not a high bar

The resident expert. He just knows so much that just isn't true.

Favorite technique seems to be coming here, snarking for a while, then running back to the "safe haven/echo chamber" to brag about how he told those; "Gol dern Gun Humpers What Fer" (supply your own Gabby Hayes accent).

Then, when he really gets embarrassed, he stays away for a few days.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

33. IMNSHO some of the usual suspects...

...are basically boycotting our happy and tolerant group, a hearty thank you to them.

[DonP]

35. After having their hat handed to them for 3 or 4 years ...

... an understandable reaction.

I'm still waiting for them to go ape shit over the latest Pew poll that shows Gun ownership back up to 44%.

I don't believe it "jumped" 12 points in 2 years. I just don't think anyone has an accurate measurement and they cling to numbers they want to believe in.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

36. re: "I don't believe it "jumped" 12 points in 2 years."

I think it's a conspiracy plot of the NRA financing the FFA to give out guns to everyone.

[DonP]

44. I never believed it dropped off after '94 either

It's not like they are just asking about how many pets you have in your home. Nobody's suggesting a mass confiscation of Persian Kittens ... at least not yet.

I just think that human nature is such, that if something has an artificial moral value attached to it and is perceived as "not popular", they just keep their mouth shut. Like smokers that claim they quit years ago ... but the inside of their car still smells like a Lucky Strike factory.

If they perceive something is very popular, they tend to speak out a little more. "Why yes, I exercise for an hour every single day and I eat healthy too".

When we have credible, senior level political figures openly discussing "Australian Style" gun control as a possibility, they're going to clam up to anyone that calls with even vaguely related gun questions.

PS: I'm still waiting for my free NRA guns and ammo. It's been years and their Good Humor style truck hasn't come down my street handing them out to every man, woman and child, especially the smaller children. I keep listening for the bells and the music (I assume it will be "Cat Scratch Fever" on those little jingly bells) and ... nothing.

I feel cheated, dammit!

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

46. re: "Nobody's suggesting a mass confiscation of Persian Kittens ... at least not yet."

I live in New Jersey and let's just say that a lot of our laws demonstrate that "up-tight" is really on a different order of magnitude here. By "up-tight" I mean lots of legislators are so "up-tight" you could drag a straw out of their butt with shuttle booster.

In my town there's a limit on the number of pets you're allowed to own. I hope fish don't count or lots of folks are going to be doing time on a pet rap upstate in the pen.



"Australian Style" is fine for most things but not gun laws.

[Eleanors38]

28. If he read what I said, he would have paid close attention to the last 2 sentences.

Therein, he would find the weakest link in the pro-2A side of things. But part of the sorry mythology of some liberals is the notion that they have some higher power of intellect and critical analysis; along with that myth is some flippant "WTF?" or "What are you talking about" approach, purpose of which is to some how denigrate anothers argument. But it is no substitute for engagement.

[flamin lib]

29. Uh, no. Just hard to follow all the conspiracy and try follow any thread of reason.

Sometimes we just blow it when we regurgitate a lot of incoherent thoughts in a single post.

However, that said, I suggest that you remember that you are posting to a DEMOCRATIC website and stop broad brushing all with your singular paranoid gun grabber outlook.

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. I suggest that *you* remember that you run neither this website nor this group...

...and have not in any way, shape, or form been appointed any variety of political officer at DU.

As far as the the subject of the OP, your credibility is... well, I'll just leave this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=192266

[sarisataka]

34. Speaking of this DEMOCRATIC

Do you know it is TOS to support DEMOCRATS?

28. That's why there is a single issue voting meme going on in the movement.
Don't vote party, vote gun violence. That's why Gabby Gifford's has endorsed two Republicans for senate. The two have consistently voted against the NRA and for her that's the most important issue for the short term.

Even if it is for only one or two election cycles, if the NRA's mythological omnipotence can be defeated and shown for being a mile deep and an inch wide it is worth it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028123984#post28

. You aren't the first to call the NRA a terrorist organization and I doubt the last.
Vote like you are a single issue voter if only for an election cycle or two. It will crush the grip of the gun lobby on Congress and then, having killed the snake that is the gun culture, we can move on to other issues.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/126211463#post2

DEMOCRATS are expected to support DEMOCRATS and DEMOCRATIC issues, not back Republicans because of a pet issue.

And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

[beevul]

37. Says the supporter of a group that just endorsed 2 repukes. N/T

[Duckhunter935]

43. I am sure that poster

Will be right back with an explanation for that.

[Duckhunter935]

42. Wow, so now you think you are a host here in this group?

Sorry but you are not. Not to mention the hypocrisy of broad brushing. You as a host should clean up your own group of those broad brush attacks. And Final point, even the President accepts and supports the Democratic RKBA.

[beergood]

14. i trust mossberg

their target consumer isn't the civilian market but rather L.E and military. i doubt they'd put it on the market unless it was reliable enough for L.E

[benEzra]

18. I may be misunderstanding, but I think...

that this guy is just a relative of the people who run Mossberg (the firearms company), and isn't actually an employee or representative of *that* company.

[beergood]

21. understood

thanks for the clarification.

[flamin lib]

23. Uh, no. nt

[Duckhunter935]

27. Is it on the market or an introduction date set yet, been 6 months

[benEzra]

41. iGun says they won't introduce it until mandates are off the table.

The New Jersey and California legislatures pretty much carpet-bombed the "smart-gun" industry into oblivion even before it got off the ground. We'll see if the startups can recover from that, and from the bad rap they got from shady pro-mandate, pro-remote-disabling companies that have previously gotten the headlines.

[Duckhunter935]

45. I agree with mandates

Let firearms owners have a choice, who could be against choice?

[beevul]

50. Wouldn't that be disagreeing with mandates? N/T

[Duckhunter935]

52. Badly worded

I was agreeing with other poster on not wanting mandates. When you look at it, I see your point

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. It's been five months since you endorsed it. Have you managed to actually test it yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172191313#post3

This is a good product and wo(r)ks instantly and as reliably as the same shotgun without the electronics.

[benEzra]

38. Uh, yes. I just checked. Jonathan Mossberg runs a small startup (iGun), not O.F. Mossberg.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanmossberg77

The two companies are not affiliated in any way.

Jonathan Mossberg did indeed work for O.F. Mossberg & Sons from 1988 to 2000, and before that he was a VP for Uzi America, but iGun is a small startup unaffiliated with O.F. Mossberg. According to O.F. Mossberg & Sons, "Mr. Jonathan Mossberg is not an employee, representative, or affiliate of O. F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc., nor is iGun Technology Corp. an affiliate of O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc. The opinions and comments expressed by Jonathan Mossberg are his own, and do not reflect those of O. F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc."

I imagine they could market their product as a drop-in modification for existing shotguns, including Mossbergs, if they so chose (say as a drop-in trigger pack and buttstock); from the pics on the iGun website, it looks like their prototype trigger module is installed in an O.F. Mossberg semiautomatic. It would conceptually be an easy drop-in for an AR-15 as well, due to its modularity.

[benEzra]

40. It is ironic that the people who want to throw their neighbors in jail...

Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

...for owning "military-style" semiautomatics and pumps, are cheering the development of electronically locked....military-style semiautomatics and pumps.



iGun has said they will not market their gun until NJ-style mandates are taken off the table. They also point out that electronically locked guns aren't a replacement for non-electronic firearms, but are complementary to them.

http://www.iguntechnology.com/faq/index
http://www.iguntechnology.com/Our-Position-6-8.html

FWIW, I do think that if any company is going to make a viable "smart gun", it is this one. Ironically, Jonathan Mossberg of iGun has pointed out that gun control advocates are threatening his company on multiple fronts, both through "smart gun" mandates, and via attempts to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. A new AWB or magazine restrictions could also undercut iGun in the market, so we'll see.

[friendly_iconoclast]

47. I doubt very much the OP and his second banana care for *this* quote from Jonathan Mossberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-15/why-hillary-clinton-can-t-win-by-going-after-the-nra

Clinton and some Democrats also favor repealing a 2005 law that shielded the gun industry from tobacco-style liability lawsuits filed by shooting victims or their relatives.

“Repeal could have a negative impact on all firearms manufacturers, the established ones and startups,” says Jonathan Mossberg, a scion of the Mossberg shotgun manufacturing family and chief executive of IGun Technology, a developer of digitally equipped firearms. He fears a flurry of frivolous lawsuits that will do nothing to increase safety. “This nonsense,” he adds, “will not end until people actually take responsibility for their own actions and cease placing the blame on inanimate objects.”

Methinks that, in the future we'll be hearing very little about IGun Technology and its products
from that quarter...

[DonP]

48. But, but, it's as reliable as his $35,000 Pick em Up truck!

They both have batteries we've been told and he's bet your life on it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. If he returns to tout the Electro-Mossberg again, be sure to remind him of Mossberg's own words

A few minutes' Googling of "IGun Technologies" or "Jonathan Mossberg" would have revealed
that quote, as it appeared five months before his rather emphatic "endorsement"

That reminds me of another quote-I'll leave it to the disinterested reader
to note who said the following...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=11154

Uninformed?

I have a federal firearms license. I daresay that I know more about guns and the relationship between warfare and weapons development than most gun nuts here on DU.

If YOU don't understand the internal mechanisms of assault weapons I suggest that you are too ignorant of the topic to have this discussion.

[Duckhunter935]

53. Now who could that quote be from?

[deathrind]

51. Good luck to this guy...

The last couple of firearm dealers who wanted to offer smart guns for sale to customers received threats from gun rights activists to the point they canceled the plan to offer the firearm.

Not sure why this firearm is such a threat that people would threaten to burn down the store but apparently it is.

[friendly_iconoclast]

54. Do you agree with what he said in an interview last year?:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-15/why-hillary-clinton-can-t-win-by-going-after-the-nra

Clinton and some Democrats also favor repealing a 2005 law that shielded the gun industry from tobacco-style liability lawsuits filed by shooting victims or their relatives.

“Repeal could have a negative impact on all firearms manufacturers, the established ones and startups,” says Jonathan Mossberg, a scion of the Mossberg shotgun manufacturing family and chief executive of IGun Technology, a developer of digitally equipped firearms. He fears a flurry of frivolous lawsuits that will do nothing to increase safety. “This nonsense,” he adds, “will not end until people actually take responsibility for their own actions and cease placing the blame on inanimate objects.”

[deathrind]

55. Yes.

Provided the firearm manufacture or dealer sells a weapon with in the legal framework set up for firearm sales they should not be held liable for what a person does with the firearm.

Having said that I would like to see that legal framework expanded but holding them liable if they have followed existing laws makes about as much sense as holding Budweiser liable because they brewed the beer or the grocery store liable because they sold the 12 pack.

[LongtimeAZDem]

56. Of course, Mossberg is secretly forging one ring to control them all . . .