Guns Are Rarely Used in Self-Defense

[SecularMotion]

“If you are fearful, arm yourself.”

That was Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader’s advice to Ohio residents in the wake of a series of “execution”-style killings that left eight members of a family dead at four different homes in Southern Ohio last week. Attorney General Mike DeWine described the shootings as “a sophisticated operation” amidst news reports that marijuana “grow operations” were found at three of the four homes, although it’s not known whether the murders were linked to the drug activities. The shooting was the 23rd mass shooting (three victims or more as defined by federal law) so far this year.

Sheriff Reader’s advice may warm the cold heart of the National Rifle Association and its financial partners in the gun industry which claim that guns are used up to 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Yet the truth is that guns are rarely used to stop crimes or kill criminals.

According to the latest federal data available, as detailed in Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use, a report issued last week by my organization, the Violence Policy Center, private citizens use guns to harm themselves or others far more often than to kill in self-defense.

[center][/center]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/guns-are-rarely-used-in-s_b_9774008.html

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. How come gun control advocates only count homicides as justifiable?

They never show DGUs where the criminal was just wounded or sent running away.

I would also like to see data on crimes attempted vs. completed comparing and contrasting whether or not the victim was armed or unarmed.

It would also be interesting to know how many crimes were attempted against an armed victim because the fact that the number of justifiable homicides is barely over 200 seems to suggest that even though they are armed gun owners are not simply out to kill at the first given opportunity -- as has been often suggested.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

40. Because there are so few of them

Gun owners and those with CCWs are apparently (according to the controllers) 'not bloodthirsty enough'.

[theatre goon]

2. Some pretty serious desperation is showing lately...

The anti-rights folks are really clinging to this idea -- that because deaths from defensive gun uses are low, then defensive gun uses are low. Of course, it overlooks the fact that most defensive gun uses don't end in fatality. No matter how many times it's debunked (including by that CDC study that is ignored because they also cling to the idea that the CDC is banned from doing such studies), they keep trotting it out.

I guess they really do believe that repetition will make it become true. It doesn't actually work that way, but I guess when you don't have an argument supported by facts and reason, this is the sort of thing you're left with...

[flamin lib]

10. Hey Goon, which theatre is yours, the one in Colorado or the one in Louisiana? nt

[Straw Man]

11. You're stooping ...

Hey Goon, which theatre is yours, the one in Colorado or the one in Louisiana?

... pretty low there, doncha think?

When in doubt, break out the ad hominem and baseless innuendo.

Stay classy.

[flamin lib]

13. I asked Goon, how 'bout you let him respond? nt

[Straw Man]

15. Oh, you mean it wasn't rhetorical?

An overt accusation of being a mass killer?

Yup, very classy.

[theatre goon]

25. Oh, I think Straw Man handled it quite well.

In fact, it was a more substantive response than your childish personal attack really deserved.

But, I guess since you can't mount an actual argument, juvenile taunts are the best you can come up with. I mean, it's pretty embarrassing for you, but if you're good with it, who am I to argue...?

Cheers.

[Eleanors38]

22. Yes, another rhetorical pumble that controllers use. All the time.

[benEzra]

3. So self-defense doesn't "count" if the attacker doesn't die.

In spite of the fact that in a defensive use, you hopefully (and usually) don't have to shoot at all, and if you do, you are shooting *only* to stop, not to kill. The *only* objective is to stop the ongoing lethal attack.

My own father had a save with a lawfully carried gun in the Croatan National Forest when I was a child. No shots fired; his assailants looked at the gun, backed off, and left. I've had coworkers who had "deterrent" uses, and one supervisor who was present when a homeowner shot a home invader, who I believe survived. By your metric, none of that constitutes "defensive use".

What your chart does suggest is that you should be focusing on getting guns out of the hands of *criminals*, not on oppressing the civil liberties of the lawful and responsible.

[Eleanors38]

26. Yes, some of these cats are a bloody lot, I must say.

Even the Deacons for Defense's turning back a racist mob without firing a shot from a small arsenal doesn't count to the controllers.

[beevul]

33. Well...

There was that one anti-gunner that suggested breaking the arms of a black man...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=159688


So it dovetails.

[Jerry442]

4. The statistic is bogus.

It fails to account for the hundreds of thousands of times that the magical aura of a gun in someone's possession prevented violence by means science can't understand.

[krispos42]

14. You mean, hearing the sound of a hammer cocking or a slide being racked?

How about a red dot appearing on somebody's chest? Or staring down the muzzle of a handgun?


Yeah, I think that's something science can understand.

[Straw Man]

16. Magic.

It fails to account for the hundreds of thousands of times that the magical aura of a gun in someone's possession prevented violence by means science can't understand.

You mean like the magic spell that is cast when you point a gun at someone and say "Get out of my house"?

[fasttense]

5. You have got to keep up the myth of guns for self defense because

You just don't have enough hunters to buy all those guns. You need some make believe thingy like self defense to get fools to buy more guns and amo and bigger guns and more ammo. The next thing you know they are going to want us all to have 50 cal. weapons on our roof tops and tanks on our front lawns.

The gun corporations and weapons manufacturers are making big money off these myths.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. Do you have a linkable source for this?

[Eleanors38]

28. Actually, I think multiple purchases by a gun-owner may be explained more prosaically...

Beyond the collectors (both historic and serious users), I think many, many thousands don't mind being filmed standing in blocks' long lines at gun shows, and coming out with hand trucks, carrying cases of ammo. It's a statement, you know, directed at the controllers.

Don't make this so difficult. There is a deep and widespread activism among those who defend the Second, and a deepening bitterness toward those who would cavalierly deny rights, stereotype people by the millions, and pump bad gas as is contained in the OP. The only real question is how long progressives and the Democratic Party want to play footsy with the political equivalent of a rabid skunk. Hell, some of the people who fund and "organize" the controller/banners are Republican. Talk about a win-win.

[jmg257]

6. Hold it, hold it...

"The study analyzes data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s Supplementary Homicide Report (SHR) and cites survey data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).

For violent crime, the NCVS estimates that there were 18,328,600 victims of attempted or completed violent crime. During this same three-year period, only 163,600 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm — or 0.9 percent.

For property crime, the NCVS estimates that there were 51,685,500 victims of attempted or completed property crime. During this same three-year period, only 99,900 of the self-protective behaviors involved a firearm — or 0.2 percent.


So let's see - 3 years = 263,500 defensive gun uses, and only roughly 600 justified fatalities?
But there were over 700 MILLION victims of violent and property crimes?!?

700 MILLION victims???

Sure sounds like they are actually justifying victims arm themselves more often.

[Nitram]

7. Those people were murdered in their sleep.

A good watchdog or two would have been a great deal more useful than a gun or two.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. Could you expound on your comments?

I'm honestly not sure who "those people" refers to, crime victims murdered, criminals attempting to commit a crime but justifiably killed or something else.

[Nitram]

24. People shot to death in their beds.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

32. The OP refers to 2 distinct groups: Those unlawfully murdered and those who

lawfully killed someone in self-defense.

Are you claiming those who were unlawfully murdered were all murdered in their sleep? Sorry to be a pest by I'm genuinely confused.

[Nitram]

34. I'm refering to the introduction to the OP where the sheriff implied if the people murdered

in their sleep had guns, they would still be alive.

“If you are fearful, arm yourself.”

That was Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader’s advice to Ohio residents in the wake of a series of “execution”-style killings that left eight members of a family dead at four different homes in Southern Ohio last week.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

39. Thank-you for taking the time to answer my questions. Sorry if I was a pest.

[Straw Man]

17. Or better yet ...

A good watchdog or two would have been a great deal more useful than a gun or two.

... how about refraining from participation in a drug-related criminal enterprise?

Preventive medicine is the way to go.

[Nitram]

23. I'm not in favor of capital punishment for growing pot.-

But that's just me.

[Eleanors38]

29. Me neither...

On the other hand, millions of people cannot legally keep a dog.

[Nitram]

30. In rural areas? Really?

[Eleanors38]

35. Why, yes, many smoke doobies in rural areas.

[Nitram]

36. Eleanor, we're talking about dog ownership, not doobies.

this conversation has left the rails!

[Eleanors38]

37. It doesn't mutt-er to me!

[Straw Man]

31. Nor am I.

I'm not in favor of capital punishment for growing pot.-

But that's just me.

I hardly think that murders committed by drug-cartel assassins qualify as "capital punishment." And for the record, I am not in favor of murder either.

But that's just me.

[krispos42]

12. Then criminal gun use is rare, too.

Only about 22 times a day is a gun misused. In a country of 315 million people and some 275 million guns.



See what happens when you only count homicides?

[jimmy the one]

18. illegitimate DGUs, legitimatized

Didn't George Zimmerman ultimately qualify for a DGU for shooting Trayvon Martin? If not why not? who should I check with? Kleck? Lott? which gun guru for hire?
Is that the kind of DGU's which mix in with the more bona fides?
And how about this most recent killing of football player will smith; there's surely to be a struggle for his killer to get a DGU for shooting him several times in the back, eh?:

Police say former New Orleans Saints star Will Smith had a loaded gun inside his vehicle on the night he was shot. New Orleans police said they found a 9 mm handgun in Smith's vehicle.
They also said they found a loaded revolver inside the vehicle of the man accused of shooting Smith, Cardell Hayes. But police said there was no evidence to suggest either of those weapons was fired during the shooting. Police say Hayes shot Smith with a different handgun..

An unnamed man who says he witnessed the argument, giving his version of events. 'I guess this guy {will smith} was like, "Get out of here or I have a gun,'' and he {killer} goes, "F*** y'all, I've got one too." And he grabs the gun and then he shoots him the back – dead.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3535833/Dramatic-video-shows-moment-football-player-Smith-rear-ended-car-drove-hit-run-just-moments-shot-dead.html#ixzz46wzIVBOL

Will Smith was fatally shot in the back in what police called a deadly act of road rage. .. defense attorney for Hayes, says there's more to the story. He says Hayes himself had been rear-ended moments earlier by a hit-and-run driver, and called 911 to describe the car he was following before he ran into Smith's Mercedes.

So the defense plan is pretty plain to see: Killer justifiably shot will smith since smith said he had a gun in his car, corroborated by witness, and as smith was going back to his car ostensibly to get his gun, Killer shot him in the back in a preemptive strike to prevent Smith from returning back & shooting back at him as he threatened.
I wonder how many of those 'legitimate' dgus, are like this? ergo, not so legitimate.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

19. Does the shooting of Mr. Smith invalidate all DGUs?

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. You were supposed to be dazzled by sheer weight of verbiage, not ask inconvenient questions

For your temerity we will be subjected to even more verbiage, little to none of which
will have any bearing upon the question you asked.

[sarisataka]

20. or maybe they are

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172190721

[Eleanors38]

21. Another attempt to create a false Narrative©.

But you know that

[ileus]

27. It only takes once...

I may be for 6 seconds in your entire life.


But for me....my life is worth the hassle of carrying.