We're told open carry is wrong because it's allegedly a form of passive intimidation

[Nuclear Unicorn]

But then we're told -- generally by the same crowd -- that certain limitations on guns are acceptable namely a prohibition on sawed-off shotguns because (get this) they can be easily concealed.

It seems disingenuous to me that gun owners are supposed to be subject to mutually excluding rules of conduct. It has every appearance of the Controllers seeking to avoid the accusation of their attempting to impose a ban by creating a de facto ban by way of creating so many constraints as to make lawful possession impossible.

Perhaps the Controllers -- if this is not the case -- would do a service to their cause if they were sort out amongst themselves what is the proper mode for carrying a weapon before they presume to reenter the debate at large.

[3catwoman3]

1. Passive intimidation?

Passive? Seems pretty aggressive to me.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. Only if you choose it to be.

[stone space]

17. Exactly! Nothing passive about this. It's an aggressive form of gun bullying.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

19. OT: Hi there. I found you this math t-shirt to wear to class

http://shirt.woot.com/offers/fractions-are-hard?ref=sh_cnt_gw_dly_wobtn

[GGJohn]

22. Oh, another picture,

so, what's the problem with this picture?
I see a bunch of people posing for a picture, so what.

[stone space]

24. Gun bullying.

so, what's the problem with this picture?

Some folks support gun bullying.

Others, like myself, oppose gun bullying.

Here's another example of gun bullying.

[GGJohn]

25. Gun bullying?

How are they "gun bullying"?
Who are they bullying?
You? Because you get so worked up by a picture of firearms?

[stone space]

27. The men, women, and children of #OCCUPYPHOENIX in Cesar Chavez plaza.

How are they "gun bullying"?
Who are they bullying?

Didn't you even watch the video?

There could have easily been a massacre that day.

[GGJohn]

29. That video is at least 3 years old, and what they were doing is perfectly legal in AZ,

I live in AZ, I know the laws.

There could have easily been a massacre that day

Seriously?

That's what you get from this picture?

Sure am glad I'm not a student of yours, you seem to lack basic common sense.

[stone space]

33. One of them did engage in a bloody massacre of 4 people, including a 15 month old baby.

Repeated assurances that they were safe to be around turned out to be a lie.

[GGJohn]

41. Got a link to that?

Otherwise, it's bullshit.

[stone space]

42. Bullshit to you, but not to the folks he massacred.

Got a link to that?

Otherwise, it's bullshit.

[GGJohn]

43. Do you or do you not have a link to this alleged massacre?

Otherwise it's bullshit.

[stone space]

44. This is a lie.

Otherwise it's bullshit.

And a slander against the massacre victims.

But feel free to continue your defense of this neo Nazi white supremacist gun-licking ammosexual who massacred 4 people and his buddies.

[GGJohn]

46. So in other words, you don't have a link?

If what you say is true, then why won't you post a link?

[Lurks Often]

49. Provide a link to this massacre you are referring to or are you lying?

[stone space]

59. I'm telling the truth.

Provide a link to this massacre you are referring to or are you lying?

You just find the truth inconvenient, that's all.

[GGJohn]

62. It's customary to provide a link to your claims,

something which you have a very bad habit of not doing.

[Lurks Often]

67. Still playing your games I see

No link = No credibility

Since you can't or won't provide a link, you are just making things up again. It's just a matter of time before you say something that will get you another timeout.

[GGJohn]

51. Hmmm, I just googled it and guess what?

Nothing about an AZ man killing 4, including a 15 month old baby, so, where's your proof that one of those featured in your photo killed 4?
Or is this another lie?

On edit: you're talking about the Marine in this video?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172187559#post24

Yeah, HE did, but no one in the other picture you posted did anything wrong, nor were they "gun bullying".

[pablo_marmol]

68. You've really sunken to unbelievable depths at this point, haven't you?

[stone space]

70. I'm not the one claiming that these neo-nazi white supremacists with their AR-15's are safe.

68. You've really sunken to unbelievable depths at this point, haven't you?

Why does my mentioning the massacre disturb you?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

32. The people have a right to keep *and bear* arms. So, that means either open or concealed or both.

[stone space]

34. Are you defending the massacre by this ammosexual neo-nazi white supremacist?

The people have a right to keep *and bear* arms. So, that means either open or concealed or both.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

37. May I suggest...

Use these free, printable worksheets to practice and improve reading comprehension, vocabulary and writing.
http://www.k5learning.com/reading-comprehension-worksheets

[Nuclear Unicorn]

39. I'm defending the right of the people to protect themselves from neo-Nazi white supremacists.

The day the Klan messed with the wrong people.

You saw those cars coming, and you knew who those men were. They wanted you to see them. They wanted you to be afraid of them."
- Lillie McKoy, former mayor of Maxton talking about the KKK

By the mid-1950's the Civil Rights Movement was gaining momentum and the KKK decided they had to fight back. Their campaign of terrorism swept through many of the southern states, but largely fell flat in North Carolina.

James W. "Catfish" Cole, the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan in South Carolina, decided he was going to change that. Cole was an ordained minister of the Wayside Baptist Church in Summerfield, North Carolina, who regularly preached the Word of God on the radio. His rallies often drew as many as 15,000 people. As Cole told the newspapers: "There's about 30,000 half-breeds up in Robeson County and we are going to have some cross burnings and scare them up."

Cole made a critical mistake that couldn't be avoided by a racist mind - he was completely ignorant of the people he was about to mess with.
.


Dr. Perry was a black doctor in Monroe, NC, and helped finance a local chapter of the NAACP. One night at a meeting, the word was received that the Klan threatened to blow up Dr. Perry's house. The meeting broke up and everyone went home to get their guns.

Sipping coffee in Perry's garage with shotguns across their laps, the men agreed that defending their families was too important to do in haphazard fashion. "We started to really getting organized and setting up, digging foxholes and started getting up ammunition and training guys," Williams recalled. "In fact, we had started building our own rifle range, and we got our own M-1's and got our own Mausers and German semi-automatic rifles, and steel helmets. We had everything."


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/17/826081/-The-day-the-Klan-messed-with-the-wrong-people?detail=email

[stone space]

58. You entered this subthread in defense of JT Ready and his band...

...of merry neo-nazi white supremacists and their AR-15s, in post #32.

I'm defending the right of the people to protect themselves from neo-Nazi white supremacists.

[GGJohn]

60. No body is defending that murderer.

Quit with the lying already.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. "You entered this subthread in defense of JT Ready and his band"

You're either hallucinating or lying as nothing I said before or after you replied to me could in any sense be considered a defense of JT Ready and I submit you lack the capacity and/or integrity to offer an explanation as to how my words could be construed as such.

[GGJohn]

63. He's lying, as usual in these threads.

He has a very bad habit of twisting our words around, or flat out lying about what was posted, and then when called out on his lies, he turns himself into the victim.

It really is pathetic, yet entertaining to watch.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

36. And the first 3 rules say:

USMC Rules for Gun Fights:
1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring their friends who have guns.
2. If you can, make friends with those on the crew served weapons. Bring them as well. Borrow money from them, it gives them an added incentive to protect you.
3. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/gunfightrules.asp

[Demit]

2. What is the reason you (you, personally) want to open carry?

I'm curious.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. I don't open carry.

[Demit]

6. Then what are you opposing?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. People who simultaneously complain about both open and concealed carry.

[stone space]

18. Why is that a problem?

People who simultaneously complain about both open and concealed carry.

[GGJohn]

20. Because you can't have it both ways,

it's either concealed carry, which I support, or open carry, which I oppose except when hunting or hiking in the back woods.

[stone space]

21. False dichotomy.

it's either concealed carry, which I support, or open carry

[GGJohn]

23. Hardly. eom.

[DeadLetterOffice]

35. How about "no carry."

Some of us are pretty into that, and it very much lets us have it both ways.
Just a thought.
Carry on (as it were).

[hack89]

50. How do you stop dangerous people from carrying illegally?

because if someone wants to harm you, how does a law stop them?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

52. There is a right to carry.

Some of us are pretty into that, and it very much lets us have it both ways.

The OP is about those, who unlike yourself, lack the integrity to be forthright. I at least appreciate your honesty.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

30. If the agenda is built on deception it is an agenda that should be resisted at every turn.

[pablo_marmol]

14. What is the reason you assumed she open carries?

I'm curious.

[Demit]

15. Well, if you look again at the words I used, I didn't.

I asked why the OP *wanted* to open carry.

And I asked because I didn't want to assume anything. I really wanted to hear the reasons people want to open carry.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

16. I'm not sure how you came to the idea I want to open carry. Nothing in the OP

indicates a desire on my part but only inquires about a contradiction I see in Controller arguments.

[Demit]

28. I saw "we" in the thread title and thought that meant

you were including yourself in the we. And the title pretty clearly rejects the idea that open carry is wrong.

I don't come to this group, as a rule. My DU page is set to "Latest Threads" and when I saw the thread title it interested me. So I am not looking for an argument. I really was just curious.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. I wrote, "We're told"

That means I am part of the audience to whom the argument is being presented. None of that implies the audience is seeking a particular outcome.

For what it's worth, I live in an open-carry state so I have nothing to petition for in that regard.

[Demit]

38. Yes, okay, Nuclear Unicorn. Clearly I was wrong.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. I'm not looking for a concession, only an honest discussion of the OP.

[sarisataka]

65. I do like the option to open carry

Even though I will carry concealed well over 99% of the time.

There have however been times where necessity or comfort has required the removal of a concealing garment. With open carry allowed that is a valid option.

There have also been instances of overzealous police arresting a person or private citizens physically assaulting them because of a momentary exposure of a concealed pistol.

[demigoddess]

5. well, 1. you never know when someone will pull out that gun

and shoot.
2.It says they have more right to walk in a store than I do.

3.I have a responsibility to keep any children with me safe from dangerous people.

4. How do I know they don't have plans to rob the store or bank they are in?

5. I am not allowed to carry around other dangerous substances, park my car in the center of the sidewalk and other things that present danger to the public.

6.When you are ill with a dangerous, communicable disease, you are expected to stay home and not pass it around.

7. People have been know to drop their guns and accidentally shoot someone TO DEATH!!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. Lots of phobias but nothing that addresses the OP.

[beevul]

10. I hope you aren't getting your hopes up.

Controllers don't like uncomfortable questions, unless they're the ones doing the asking.

[Duckhunter935]

11. some might think that is the definition

of paranoia. I hope you look at the numbers and do not fall for that.

[Straw Man]

13. Oy, the misconceptions ...

1. you never know when someone will pull out that gun

and shoot.

And you never know who might be carrying a concealed weapon and may do the same thing.

2.It says they have more right to walk in a store than I do.

It says nothing of the kind. Everyone has the same right to walk in a store.

3.I have a responsibility to keep any children with me safe from dangerous people.

You may be surrounded by dangerous people who are NOT carrying openly or at all, and the person carrying a weapon openly may not be dangerous in the least.

4. How do I know they don't have plans to rob the store or bank they are in?

If they did, they would either have the weapon concealed or be brandishing it.

5. I am not allowed to carry around other dangerous substances, park my car in the center of the sidewalk and other things that present danger to the public.

What dangerous substances are you not allowed to carry around? Carrying a weapon does not present a danger to the public. Misusing it does. The same holds true of driving a car.

6.When you are ill with a dangerous, communicable disease, you are expected to stay home and not pass it around.

I have no idea how this is supposed to be relevant to the matter at hand. Gun ownership as disease? Paging the CDC ...

7. People have been know to drop their guns and accidentally shoot someone TO DEATH!!

Such cases are extremely rare, and happen when people are handling their guns, not merely carrying them in holsters.

Any other unnecessary fears I can allay for you today?

[ileus]

9. It's scary and mean, we're supposed to oppose it because of.....GUNZ!!!

OC opponents seem to have a hard time trusting their fellow citizens.

[Kang Colby]

12. I'm not a controller...

But the answer you probably won't get from them is that they feel ALL forms of carry should be prohibited. They've spent a lot of time attacking open carry lately, but only because it is less politically popular than concealed carry -- which is a political juggernaut at this point.

[TeddyR]

26. As a supporter of the RKBA

And of concealed carry, I personally find open carry distasteful, primarily because it does make a lot of people uncomfortable. And I suspect (but this is just supposition) that a lot of people who open carry do it because they know if makes people uncomfortable.

[PeoViejo]

45. I feel intimidated.

I own several guns. It's not the guns that bother me. A long time ago, when I was a member of the NRA and certified Rifle Marksmanship Instructor, I was around Firearms a lot.

Whenever I see someone open-carry in public, my first reaction is that the person is a potential flake. Another concern is that I know it intimidates a lot of other people a lot more than it does me.

It's just bad manners and a sign that the carrier is an asshole.

[LonePirate]

47. Open carry is wrong because it is impossible to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys.

[GGJohn]

48. Ok, then you're good with concealed carry?

Good to know.

[LonePirate]

53. I oppose concealed carry as well. I oppose gun possession regardless of how it is framed.

[GGJohn]

54. Why? eom.

[LonePirate]

55. Guns serve no reasonable purpose in modern society. They are instruments of death and nothing more.

There are other, non-lethal ways to protect yourself if you are so overcome by fear that you need to carry a gun at all times.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

56. AFAIK fire extinguishers are used to fight fires...

...less often than guns are used in self-defense. Do you believe in fire extinguishers?

[GGJohn]

57. How about those of us who hunt for our food?

Or protect our livestock from predators?
How about if I or my family is attacked?
Why would you deny us the means to defend ourselves from 2 legged predators?
How would you disarm criminals?
How would you keep firearms out of the US?
Are you in favor of only the police and military having firearms?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

64. "(Guns) are instruments of death and nothing more."

orly?

[stone space]

75. Brought to you by the NRA.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

78. That's not the NRA. Those are the people who enforce gun control laws.

[GGJohn]

84. That's not the NRA "professor",

that's LEO.

[Duckhunter935]

90. you do know that is not the NRA

It appears to be a uniformed SWAT team of law enforcement. Welcome back from vacation.

[pablo_marmol]

69. Wow. PITCH PERFECT example of what is KILLING Democrats.

http://www.thenation.com/article/democrat-killer/

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

73. Pew says the public favors Republicans on gun-control

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/05/5-facts-about-guns-in-the-united-states/

The Republican Party holds a slight advantage over the Democratic Party in reflecting the public’s views about gun control. In December 2015, 43% said the Republican Party can do a better job of reflecting their views “about gun control,” compared with 37% who said the Democratic Party would do better.

[stone space]

76. Well, that sure was a blast from the past!

March 31, 2005

[shadowrider]

74. Well,

Our military has guns because the bad guys have guns.

American citizens have guns because the bad guys have guns. Take guns away from lawful owners, and only the bad guys will have them.

What am I gonna do? Throw a can of beans or a bicycle tire at them?

Hardly.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

72. I think some controllers...

...were read Goldilocks and the Three Bears exclusively as children. This one is too big, that one too small...

Everyone of them with a different plan. No unity other than "Guns Bad".

[stone space]

77. The Controllers want to force us to dine under armed threat against our will.

The Controllers even threaten us with arrest if we run for our lives.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

79. Then we'll put you down for "Pro-Concealed"

[stone space]

80. That would be a lie, wouldn't it?

Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 08:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Then we'll put you down for "Pro-Concealed"

[Nuclear Unicorn]

81. Well, your previous post was about visible weapons and a concealed weapon, by definition,

would not be visible. If no weapon is visible you have no reason to skip-out on the check.

[stone space]

82. How did you conclude that I support concealed carry?

And do you use similar logic on other matters, as well?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. You don't have to support it, merely prefer it over open carry.

"Lesser of two evils" as it were.

You may want no-carry but the right to carry trumps your personal phobias and biases. Since you have cited a visible weapon as an excuse to skip-out on a restaurant check a non-visible (read: concealed) weapon would be your way of accommodating the rights of others.

[GGJohn]

85. And you would know all about lying in these threads, right "professor"? eom.

[stone space]

87. When I see myself cited as a supporter of Concealed Carry, yes.

85. And you would know all about lying in these threads, right "professor"? eom.

[GGJohn]

88. Right over your head yet again "professor". eom.

[Duckhunter935]

91. yep, concealed is much better

Only pointing out that when theft is commited, that person should be arrested. To bad some think it is ok not to pay for services rendered and screw the server and restaurant owner.

[stone space]

92. You Controllers are always so quick to want folks arrested.

that person should be arrested

[Duckhunter935]

93. yes, we tend to be law abiding citizens

Unlike those that would commit theft and deny people thier paycheck. People who commit theft should be arrested, are you law abiding or not? Simple question.

[rjsquirrel]

86. Controller here

Of course it is passive intimidation. That's why you guys want it so bad. You need to feel powerful and dangerous and threatening.

And then your viagra runs out and we get the Kalamazoo shooter. Yep, another white middle aged nut goes off his meds and kills 7 with his legal gun, in a concealed carry state no less, and no one stopped him. There goes the argument.

Oh bluster away in response. Threaten away. Have fun. We're on the internet and your weapon doesn't intimidate anyone, and the intellect of a typical DU RKBA gun nutter doesn't intimidate anyone either.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

89. You seem to have a lot of sexual hang-ups that you channel through gun control.

And you seem unable to actually carry on an actual debate so you degenerate to insults.

"Bluster", indeed.

If you want to have a debate, bring it. I'm more than capable. But apparently you thought you could come into this group and present the same tired, old debunked arguments and banal sexualized insults and still be entitled to pat yourself on the back for being just so awesome.

And then you realized we didn't share your opinion of you and you have dropped the arguments, doubled down on the insults. You're not new and you're not awe-inspiring. You're just lobbing bravado over the internet which you yourself just derided in your post. If you don't even like you where does that leave my obligations towards you?

So, you actually want to debate the OP or do you just want to go "WOOF! WOOF!" some more because you got beat-up by a girl -- over the internet?

What should be done about instances such as the Kalamazoo shooter? You cannot ban guns and you cannot deny the right to carry. So, open or concealed?

[beevul]

94. "There goes the argument."

"There goes the argument."

Well, if a single failure is the standard, there go the arguments for gun control.

...and the intellect of a typical DU RKBA gun nutter doesn't intimidate anyone either.

Which is why you head to this place at warp speed every time you have one of your anti-gun talking points challenged: