We need more guns . . .

[flamin lib]

[gejohnston]

1. a few years old,

and falsely claims that you can get machine guns without background checks. Maybe he was thinking of Leland Yee's office.

[flamin lib]

2. I seriously doubt that it would make a rat's ass of a difference if he

correctly stated that you could buy a semi automatic instead of a full automatic.

But then any old reason to ignore the bitter truth will do.

[gejohnston]

18. you know that isn't really correct either

since most gun show vendors are FFLs. Of course France's decades long licensing system and bans on full autos have prevented mass murders at a magazine, Kosher deli, the latest attacks, and the last shoot out. Denmark's similar laws prevented a gangster from going full auto in a bar full of people, and then there is the art gallery in Brussels, with Belgium having FN vending machines near each school.
Oh wait..................

It is the same kind of fear tactics used by the same people who want more warrantless wire taps and the FBI asking librarians about your reading habits.

[ileus]

3. I don't know about "we" but I sure do.

I'm really need another CZ, this time I'm wanting a pretty blued 75 B...


I' also need a G40 to have as my woods gun...


and of course the Sako 22-250 is still on my short list of long guns.


So many great guns....so little money. (that plus I need a bass boat)

[Hangingon]

7. I wish Colt or someone would bring back the Woodsman...

[DonP]

10. Used Woodsman in the local shop - $800 - one magazine, no box

Kinda rich for my blood, but very pretty.

A Ruger Mk III target model or a Browning Buckmark is as much fun, and the Ruger has a lot of accessories for accuracy.

[Hangingon]

12. I have a Ruger MarkII and an old MarkI from my dad.

The Woodman just has a cache. The cost is too high for me especially since the Ruger is a great gun.

[DonP]

16. I've got a Ruger MK III and a Buckmark ... but the Colt just looks so damn cool

It's from an era when computers and algorithms didn't design guns or cars.

Both the Ruger and the Browning to shoot are great and luckily, I stocked up on .22 a few years back, so no shortage for me and the grand kids.

But yeah, the Woodsman always attracts my eye when I go in for anything. If it's still there in a month or two, I might make her an offer. I bought a nice older Winchester 62A pump gun this Summer for $200 less than they were asking, just because it had been sitting for over 6 months.

It pays to patronize small, local businesses.

[Hangingon]

19. Agree totally!

I don't know the Buckmark but hear it is a good gun. Glad to know someone else is buying old .22s. I have bought some Junkers - Mossberg bolt and Remington bolt - that I am working on restoring. Those Mossberg sights are tough to find.

[DonP]

20. I picked up Marlin Model 60's for each grand kid

Cleaned them up, some got new stocks and when they are older, they each get one after their lessons.

Picked up one with a perfect stock, original box but a broken trigger spring for $25. Marlin service dept. rebuilt the whole action with all new springs for another $25.

[Waldorf]

22. My very first firearm bought was a Marlin 60, back in 1983.

Still have it. Still looks like new. Would like to replace the trigger assembly, its gritty and trigger pull is heavy. I've never taken the trigger assembly apart, it has a gazillion springs. Just sprayed it with gun scrubber.

[Eleanors38]

29. That one, or maybe the High Standard .22 of that era.

[beardown]

4. More guns in the US than ever.

Deaths from guns continue their 20 year decline.

Flamin Lib is onto something.

[flamin lib]

8. No, gun deaths are now increasing at 1-1.5% per year. You're thinking of auto deaths. nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

14. Less than the rate of population growth, it should be noted...

[JonathanRackham]

26. To be fair

Statistics need to be quoted on a basis of incidents per unit quantity of population. Unless of course the intent is to deceive people. Bookkeepers, accountants, and statisticians know that little trick.

[sarisataka]

5. So as an FFL holder

What would you do if this gentleman came to you wanting to purchase a firearm?

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. Good question- Does the OP 'profile' his prospective customers?

It's not an academic question- "Curio and Relic" simply means ''fifty years old" (and sometimes
less than that, as explained) , NOT "19th century technology"

There are many, many "curio" or "relic" firearms listed at the links below that a terrorist
would be interested in.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

Curios & Relics

A regulation implementing Federal firearms laws, 27 CFR §478.11, defines Curio or Relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date,
but not including replicas of such firearms;

2. Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which
exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

3. Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary
value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/firearms/curios-relics/p-5300-11-firearms-curios-or-relics-list.pdf

https://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-january-2009-june-2010.html

https://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-may-2006-december-2007.html

https://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-may-2005-may-2006.html

https://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-march-2001-may-2005.html

The disinterested reader that peruses the above will note that semi-automatic shotguns, slam-firing 'trench brooms', semiautomatic versions of submachine guns, and honest-to-FSM
sniper rifles can all easily be bought and sold by C&R FFL holders...

pious pronunciations to the contrary notwithstanding.

[Waldorf]

24. I have a C&R license and I was totally surpirised about the curio part. I bought a Polish

Makarov a couple of months ago. C&R was accepted. Figured it was from the 50's. Received it and it was stamped 1972, definitely under the 50 yr. mark. Found out the ATF had put it on their curio list in 2008.

[Straw Man]

25. It gets better ...

Last edited Fri Nov 20, 2015, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)

I have a C&R license and I was totally surpirised about the curio part. I bought a Polish

Makarov a couple of months ago. C&R was accepted. Figured it was from the 50's. Received it and it was stamped 1972, definitely under the 50 yr. mark. Found out the ATF had put it on their curio list in 2008.

The CZ model 82 ("VZ82&quot is also C&R, even though they were produced until 1993. The rationale for putting it on the curio list is that it was a military/police sidearm for a country that no longer exists: Czechoslovakia. Voila: instant historical significance.

Except for the chambering (9x18 Makarov), the 82 is virtually identical to the CZ83, a .380 pistol that was available on the consumer market until last year. It is an excellent pistol, capable of being carried hammer-down as a DA/SA or cocked-and-locked for single action operation. The drawback is that this requires decocking manually if you want to use it in SA/DA mode. It's not that hard to do safely, but still should be practiced with an unloaded pistol before it is attempted with a loaded one.

[Waldorf]

27. Thanks for the info the CZ 82. Will be taking a look at it.

[Straw Man]

31. You're welcome.

Prices are a bit of a rollercoaster, though. Every time an importer brings over a batch, prices drop. When those are gone, prices soar. Prices seem to be up right now. One day all the stock will be gone, and then it will be up, up, and away. If you do milsurp collecting, I'm sure you're familiar with that pattern.

[Waldorf]

32. Yes I do. I would like to add a M1 Garand to my collection, but prices are more than I'm willing to

pay for one.

[hack89]

6. Give me more time - I am working on it.

my wife insists we get a new dishwasher first.

[Eleanors38]

30. What? She wants to divorce you?

[Waldorf]

9. Getting one out of lay-away next month. My Christmas present :)

[ileus]

11. Don't keep us in suspense...

CZ 75?


Sig p220 10mm?


Browning Hi power?

[Waldorf]

17. Marlin 1894 in .44 mag.

I have a Ruger Redhawk in .44 mag. I reload so loading the same round for a rifle/revolver makes it much cheaper.

[ileus]

21. picked up another 10# of lead today myself.

[Waldorf]

23. I reload manufactured bullets. I've looked at making lead bullets (good vidoes on youtube) but

that would involve another investment in reloading equipment, which I could spend on another firearm.

[beevul]

13. Put your money where your mouth is.

Lets see you start stumping for sending unarmed police to the next terrorist attack.


Because, y'know, more guns is never the answer.

[Eleanors38]

28. flaming lib, you already got plenty. In GD

Anytime, anywhere.

So, how's the Fifth Amendment working out for you?