What's Wrong With Gun Registration?

[SecularMotion]

I live in Maryland, whose nickname is the "Free State," and I am no less free because of the laws in my state require registration of handguns and prohibit the more dangerous varieties of firearms, magazines and ammunition. In fact, I feel more free because I have less fear of being blown away, freedom and all, than I would have if guns were less regulated.

Very few people have serious objections to registration of activities in many other contexts; we register our cars, dogs, bicycles, burglar alarms, births, deaths, marriages and our kids into schools every day. Even with no military draft, we have draft registration. Many people have totally given up on privacy in giving any information to businesses. But guns are treated differently. Why? One reason is that we are inundated by demands that we do so from loud gun proponents stirred up and financed by a cynical commercial gun lobby. Another is we all have at least a little bit of rebellion in us and we can dream of throwing off the restraints of civilization and of running wild.

But we should not forget that this dream is a dream of going back to the state of nature and, as every one knows, the state of nature is where life is "nasty, brutish and short." It certainly was short for the twenty children and six teachers who died at Sandy Hook Elementary School and the thirty thousand or so who died from gun incidents last year.

The slogan or talking point "registration always leads to confiscation" has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin. Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history; but the picture being painted by gun zealots is of "jack-booted thugs" from the federal government taking the tools of liberty from true patriots. An example of this is currently happening in New York State where the SAFE Act requires registration of assault weapons. Many owners are being reported as unwilling to comply.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-harvey/gun-registration_b_5186200.html

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

1. [I live in Maryland, whose nickname is the "Free State,"...

...and I am no less free because of the laws in my state require registration of handguns and prohibit the more dangerous varieties of firearms, magazines and ammunition. In fact, I feel more free because I have less fear of being blown away...]

(emphasis added)

...I am no less free because of the laws in my state require registration...

And neither is anyone who criminally chooses not to register the required weapons, they're just criminals.
They can't even be convicted of a crime for not registering if they engage in criminal use of the guns.

...more dangerous varieties of firearms, magazines and ammunition...

Please describe how "more dangerous varieties" are determined.

...I feel more free because...

Please elaborate on the rationale for basing law and criminal convictions on feelings and emotions.

[ileus]

2. registration always leads to confiscation...the author already had the answer.

[GGJohn]

3. What's wrong with registration?

Because the govt has no right nor business knowing what firearms I own.
I'm not in the least worried about confiscation, there's too many firearms out there that the govt doesn't know where or who has them, it's a matter of privacy to me, and the ACLU agrees.

Any comment there SecMo?
Oh, wait........................

[SecularMotion]

4. ......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7266609

[GGJohn]

5. ......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union#Positions

Gun rights – The national ACLU's position is that the Second Amendment protects a collective right to own guns, rather than an individual right (some state affiliates consider the Second Amendment to refer to individual gun rights). The national organization's position is based on the phrases "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State". However, the ACLU opposes any effort to create a registry of gun owners and has worked with the National Rifle Association to prevent a registry from being created and has favored protecting the right to carry guns under the 4th Amendment

[Big_Mike]

17. OK, how does this work exactly?

How is it that they pick and choose which USSC precedents they will support or defend? I do not hear of them trying to amend the 2nd amendment. Does this mean that they would not support an indigent individual who was punished by a city or state for taking part in a legal activity involving firearms possession or use?

[hack89]

6. The Sandy Hook shooters guns were registered.

how did registration work there?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

7. But how can we miss a chance to...

...improve the moral purity and continue the culture war by basing laws on emotions instead of facts and logic?

You're such a thread killer!

[Herman4747]

8. Gun Registration DEFINITELY has Merit...

...it will make it easier to confiscate the filthy, murderous things from the gun nuts at a later point in time.

[GGJohn]

9. Good satire.

[gejohnston]

10. I feel more free because I have less fear of being blown away

I'm guessing the writer doesn't live in Baltimore.

[DonP]

13. Doesn't live in Chicago, that's for sure

[derby378]

11. Depends on what is meant by "registration"

In America, full-auto firearms and sawed-off shotguns are registered under the National Firearms Act, and the registry was closed to full-auto in 1986 by the Hughes amendment to FOPA, which means remaining machine guns on the civilian market are getting rather expensive. If you use registration as a tool for attrition, you create a two-tier system where the rich own the most powerful weapons and the poor don't get none. That's not how our Constitution is supposed to work.

I'm all for keeping the NFA in place (but killing the Hughes amendment), mainly because of leveling the playing field on labor issues - in the Battle of Blair Mountain, corporate mercenaries used full-auto weapons on striking coal miners, including at least one machine gun mounted on a tripod, judging from the number of .30-06 shell casings found at the site and their circular dispersal pattern. Most miners were lucky to be carrying a shotgun or a lever-action rifle; most of them couldn't afford a Thompson. This happened a few years before the NFA was passed, though.

When you buy a firearm, you fill out a Form 4473, which also records the serial number of the gun you're purchasing, so there is a registration system in place right there. We could stand to tighten the background check system, sure, so that means much fewer private sellers dodging Form 4473 and a better accounting of which guns are being sold to whom.

But if registration is meant to lead to a permitting system like the Illinois FOID, I can't support that as being Constitutional. The system has experienced at least one catastrophic failure, which means someone couldn't buy a shotgun in Illinois because Windows XP crashed. If you're going to deny a firearm purchase, do it for the right reasons.

[krispos42]

12. "Hillary: Australia-style gun control ‘worth looking at’ "

The slogan or talking point "registration always leads to confiscation" has been taken up and repeated so many times that it seems impossible to trace its origin.

Origins aside, how about the present day? Bearing in mind that Australia instituted national confiscation of certain classes of guns.

Of course, law enforcement agencies, whether tyrannical or benign, have seized illegal items as part of their duties throughout history...

And it sure would be easier to seize guns (after they're declared illegal, of course) if you have a list.



I wonder how safe Tom Harvey would feel in the gun-free paradise of Baltimore.

I wonder if Tom Harvey knows that you can't arrest, try, convict, or imprison a prohibited person for failing to register a gun (that pesky 5th Amendment). Possessing, yes. Using, of course. Buying one, sure. But not registering it? Nope, nope, nope.

I wonder if Tom Harvey can tell me how the Connecticut State Police or the Newtown Police would have benefited from having a list of guns that the Langzas owned, or how they could have pre-empted the deadly rampage in Sandy Hook with such knowledge.

Just curious.

[Eleanors38]

14. She'll look to the "left" of Sanders, then to the "right" to dodge the GOP.

She did a little of this in '08 when running against Obama, iirc.

[Kang Colby]

16. I agree.

Full disclosure, I am a Hillary supporter - but I know full well once the GE race rolls around we will be hearing the usual about "respecting the 2A" while sharing weepy eyed anecdotes about learning to shoot on grandpas farm.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. Because grabbers have shown they are not to be trusted.

[beevul]

18. People who cant or wont be bothered to differentiate between those who commit gun violence and...

People who cant or wont be bothered to differentiate between those who commit gun violence and the 99.9 percent that don't, want us to register guns why again?

And we should take them at their word why again?