Open thread on the mass shooting in Oregon today.

[CreekDog]

Discuss.

[fredamae]

1. Multiple Mass Shootings Just This Year

Lawmakers send condolences, heartfelt messages, flowers and cards. They React..then move on. No Action...just reaction.
I am sick.

[Eleanors38]

19. Maybe we should ALL approach problems differently, lest we get more of the same.

[ileus]

2. Gross misuse of my rights.

[Starboard Tack]

16. We feel for you

Wouldn't want another mass killing to get in the way of YOUR rights

[Decoy of Fenris]

3. A tragedy, to be sure. Hardly unavoidable but certainly illuminating.

Having spent a fair amount of time on 4chan, I think this shooting clearly emphasizes a symptom of a much larger, more complicated issue than just "Guns." This guy was cold, jaded, bitter and wanted people to share in his pain. Likewise, the complete lack of opposition to the threat of mass violence by his peers (and the lack of caring even afterwards) should be taken as a warning sign; People, especially the younger generation, are just flat -pissed-.

They were told when they were young that they could be anything, do anything, that they could do anything they wanted so long as they devoted themselves and put their minds to it. Now, later in life, they have the perception that they were lied to; that life is futile, no one owes anything and none of it really matters in the end. In short, we have a generation of sociopaths who just don't give a shit about the well-being of others, and those same people have large, online support nets for those who share the same feelings and ideas.

This guy was close to the edge (if not already over said edge), made his intentions known in a public forum, and people -cheered- him. They encouraged him and rooted for him, because "Fuck everything".

This shouldn't be about "gunz"; if you want to "Discuss", let's talk about the society that not only allowed this to happen but encouraged it to; the people who, when faced with the threat of a mass murder, reacted with an uncaring "Do it, faggot" (A direct quote.)

There's far more important issues with this than just "hurr guns", and I think you know that as well. Do you have any solutions or even thoughts in regards to what the hell went wrong with this poor guy?

[SheilaT]

4. Logical outcome of

the number of guns out there, along with a culture that celebrates those guns.

A mass shooting happens often enough in this country that no one should ever be very shocked when another one happens.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. Perhaps it's a culture that glamorizes mass shootings. They crave notoriety and they get it.

[Eleanors38]

17. With crime rates down -- again -- what logic to you propose?

We live in a celebrity culture, and it looks like this PUNK got his measure of it, far more then either you or I will achieve. You probably don't care for celebrity, and neither do I, but this and other incidents, should disabuse anyone of the notion that there is a "good" or "bad" or merely "tasteless" form of celebrity in the U.S. It all spends, and a fast and rather easy way of getting it is enabled as much by a MSM (as it deepens its transition from "news" to celebroshock) as by the method (usually a gun).

As a measure of how MSM treats celebrity murder (and the reaction to it by the public and DU), note that last August eight (8) souls were mass-murdered in Houston (by use of a gun, so there should be no quibbling over it). Yet GD was wide open to yet another rolling exception to its no-gunz-discussion policy over a half-assed try at a theater spectacular!

What rated this as an exception? The theater? The empathy with victims in a safe, dark environment?

Why didn't the Houston mass-murder rate even a MENTION? Maybe the victims didn't fit the Celebrokiller model near and dear to MSM's heart.



Maybe they didn't fit the Goddam complexion!

[Gregorian]

5. I really think our competitive based economy has a lot to do with this.

We can't even afford to live, let along enjoy life. Hopelessness for many reasons.

We can regulate guns, but that's not the problem. The heart of this is parents who can't get maternity leave, children with parents gone to mutliple jobs, a society that worships war and doesn't value culture and beauty. A medical system that is behind the times in some major ways, and unafordable at best.

Most of these problems can be solved. But the monster with the gold just don't care, and the citizens just don't know they can have it better.

The percentage of people who are just picking up guns to kill is pretty much zero. It can be healed.

Regulating guns is just a bandaid.

[ileus]

6. Why is it almost always stupid loser punk kids???

when it comes to shootings of this nature?

[Decoy of Fenris]

7. Probably something to do with people calling them "Stupid loser punk kids." n/t

[ileus]

9. So stop being a stupid loser...life is easy to learn.

[Decoy of Fenris]

10. You're right. Now he's famous and set for life for housing, food, health care and entertainment.

I'd say that in relation to, say, an anonymous internet poster, he's far less a "Loser" now, wouldn't you say?

Seriously, this is -part of the problem-. The increased marginalization of and abandonment of vulnerable youths simply because they're "Stupid loser punks". People with your attitude only contribute to this sort of psychopathic mentality. Who knows, maybe the day before this rampage, this guy ran into someone -just like you- who pushed him to this. 30+ casualties all because some jackhat with a superiority complex decided to call him a "stupid loser punk."

Take a step back and consider what attitudes like yours contribute in relation to events like these.

[ManiacJoe]

11. You are aware that the the shooter

died in a shootout with the cops, right?

[Decoy of Fenris]

12. I wasn't aware of that until one of the recent updates.

That's the problem with non-stop reporting; stories change and whatnot.

Still, the generalized point I was trying to make holds up despite the shooter's death; The poster I was responding to said "Stop being a stupid loser." Well, this guy did just that; now he's famous. Half of America will know his name which is more than can be said for 99% of this forum or any other. This guy will go down in the history books and will never be forgotten; for good or ill deeds is irrelevant to someone like him, I'm guessing.

[ileus]

15. No he's still a loser...

only he went from stupid loser, to fucking asshat loser.

[ileus]

14. someone needs your correction...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027219544

[Brickbat]

8. Gosh, I wonder.

[Eleanors38]

18. One looks at the profile in organized terrorist groups:

Countries with huge populations of young, unemployed, poorly educated males, inculcated with values and customs which are collapsing along with viable state apparatus: They are increasingly irrelevent and useless, esp in a society which offers more of the same.

Here in this country, conditions are far better, but who would argue that they have improved substantially over the last few decades? Where is our own hope? Our own future? Where is our community?

But we have a celebrity culture.

[Brickbat]

20. Totally agree. If people are really interested in solving these issues, it will require a

multidisciplinary approach that looks carefully at our education system, our mental health system, our society's culture of violence, our approach toward bullying, the economic opportunity the country offers young people, what the dominant culture rewards and values, and how the dominant culture views the "other." In a large, heterogeneous population like the United States', such an approach is going to take a long, long time, many difficult conversations, some massively unpopular changes, and a lot of money.


(My "I wonder" response was a sour drive-by on the flippant "stupid loser punk kids???" assessment.)

[Eleanors38]

21. I'm split on the personal characterization thing. I can see how...

someone's prior treatment is a big factor in how he/she acts later. But at some point, personal responsibility becomes a deciding factor. The Columbine murderers didn't impress me as unusually mistreated. I think too often a young kid's world becomes so self-centered that they see no culpability or responsibility for their actions. By the time they do some heinous act like murder for social revenge, I have little use for them or even their names; society is better served by avoiding Any notion of glamorization.

I note one vehement gun-controller and feminist in these threads who called the murderer an "Alpha Male" in her/his OP title. There is much invested in Narrative when it comes to murder and mayhem.

[CreekDog]

23. so you're willing to look comprehensively at the problem

as long as we exclude discussing guns.



"Eleanor's" "38"

[shadowrider]

24. Sure

You'll notice all these shooters have had serious mental health issues. If you want to discuss how to attempt to stop all of this, mental health should come before limiting rights on millions of legal, law-abiding gun owners.

Concentrating on guns overlooks the root cause of the problem, and THAT, is the problem.

[Straw Man]

25. Whereas you're unwilling to look comprehensively at the problem ...

... and wish to focus exclusively on guns.

I find it bizarre that some are far less interested in finding out why people want to kill a bunch of random strangers than they are in the tools with which they choose to do it.

The issue with Oklahoma City wasn't fertilizer; the issue with the Happy Land Social Club wasn't gasoline; the issue with Rwanda wasn't machetes. The issue with all these cases was homicidal rage and man's inhumanity to man.

The question is why people want to kill large numbers of their fellow human beings. If your answer is "Because gunz!", then you are merely fixing the doorbell while the house is on fire.

[NaturalHigh]

29. That's a great reply. You should make an OP of it.

I would say post it in GD, but we all know that only anti-gun OPs are allowed there.

[Eleanors38]

26. I am willing to look comprehensively at the problem.

[beevul]

27. Newsflash.

Whenever theres a shooting, guns are the FIRST thing most of you and your buddies talk about, and the ONLY thing the anti-gun bunch is willing to talk about.

We as a nation, have been 'talking about guns' since at least 1934, so do lets don't pretend that guns haven't been discussed more than their fair share, compared to the rest.

It may be embarrassing, but its a fact, and is certainly indicative of the anti-gun mindset.

[Eleanors38]

22. I commend you for posting this OP in a manner which generated useful responses.

[NaturalHigh]

28. My take on it, FWIW.

A deranged individual committed a terrible crime. Several families are mourning, and others will suffer the anxiety of PTSD for a long time. Nothing can excuse this heinous act.

That said, almost none of the proposals for gun control being thrown around would have stopped this from happening. I think we all pretty much agree that the most Congress might pass is a universal background check law, and this guy had nothing in his background that would have prevented him from buying a firearm.